Formula Race Promotions Launching new FIA Spec Formula 4 car

[NPalacioM3]

Yup.

http://www.racer.com/scca-home/item/...rmula-4-series

So now what?

[Kazis31]

Talked to Nigel from Mygale today.Nice fella by the way.
You get fully prepped and assembled car with data,paddle shifters ETC
For around 65k out of door.(shipping taxes etc included)
Motor package 10000 euros.(also included)
Should be good for aprox 6000 miles of hard racing.
Running Hoosier tires( i suspect FE r45's)
Floating rotor brakes
Carbon fiber tub.
160 HP ecoboost ford motor.
Fully integrated data in formula steering wheel.
Moder FIA head surround and quick remove seat basin.
6 speed Sadeev sequential gear box.
7 cars already sold and delivered in US.

Now ,can anyone tell me what is wrong with that or
can you get better , more efficient ,economical and safe formula car complete
in US for less money?


I think boys need to chill and root for this one.
May do some good in long run.
They might end up in secondary marked for 30k-35k and make excellent regional club car.

[Steve Bamford]

Yup.

http://www.racer.com/scca-home/item/...rmula-4-series

So now what?

This just keeps getting better and better! No chassis decided upon yet they will run a series in 2016. They can't even decide upon a spec tire choice let alone anything else.

I am happy to support FRP even if SCCA goes with a different F4 choice. No regrets on my part. It would make sense to go down the same route as FRP but nothing with racing makes sense to me based on past experience.

[Purple Frog]

Is it $65K and an extra 10000 Euros for the motor?
or, does the $65K include the 10000 Euro motor?
Your post was a bit unclear...

OBTW, there is nothing big wrong with the proposal unless you have over $100,000 invested in a new FC, and thought you had places to race.

Here is a stupid thought... SCCA Pro collected funds from FRP for at least 8 years while FRP put on formula car races with the largest fields in all of US open wheel racing... then they decide to NOT team up with FRP to do the F4 deal????
What is in the water in Topeka... stupid juice?

[Purple Frog]

Uh OH...
Somebody told me that SCCA Pro read post #79 last week and thought it was a good idea.

[Daryl DeArman]

Is it $65K and an extra 10000 Euros for the motor?
or, does the $65K include the 10000 Euro motor?
Your post was a bit unclear...

OBTW, there is nothing big wrong with the proposal unless you have over $100,000 invested in a new FC, and thought you had places to race.

Here is a stupid thought... SCCA Pro collected funds from FRP for at least 8 years while FRP put on formula car races with the largest fields in all of US open wheel racing... then they decide to NOT team up with FRP to do the F4 deal????
What is in the water in Topeka... stupid juice?

Seems pretty simple to me.

FRP built a better mouse trap.

FRP and SCCA Pro had a mutually beneficial relationship.

SCCA Pro doesn't appear to need FRP any longer.

Why does FRP need SCCA?

Those folks that invested 100K FC's packages still have places to race them. Maybe my water is bottled in Topeka?

[Wren]

What is in the water in Topeka... stupid juice?

It's the same pants-****ting level of incompetence that got them to where they are now.

While its kind of cute that the SCCA thinks they are still relevant enough to run something like this, I'm concerned that our membership fees will underwrite it.

My understanding in Pittsburgh was that the F4 would be run mixed class with F2000. From this thread, that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a firm answer?

[Steve Bamford]

Is it $65K and an extra 10000 Euros for the motor?
or, does the $65K include the 10000 Euro motor?
Your post was a bit unclear...

OBTW, there is nothing big wrong with the proposal unless you have over $100,000 invested in a new FC, and thought you had places to race.

Here is a stupid thought... SCCA Pro collected funds from FRP for at least 8 years while FRP put on formula car races with the largest fields in all of US open wheel racing... then they decide to NOT team up with FRP to do the F4 deal????
What is in the water in Topeka... stupid juice?

To clarify,

Car is under 60 grand with Ford Ecoboost engine. Freight is the only extra charge which would push it slightly into the 60's.

If your a team owner and wanting to race cars in 2016 this sure makes you wonder what to do If you wish to run a SCCA car. Why make an announcement like this without letting your customers know what car you will be running, when and where you will be running it. There is some saying about a one car funeral that comes to mind.

[Purple Frog]

If SCCA Pro gets involved there will probably be kickbacks to pro from the vendors. So costs will climb.
What team wants to buy a yet undisclosed car for $60k or more for only a 5 weekend series?
This is getting really fun... unless you are invested in one of the three (so far) announced series.

There are yet unconfirmed rumours of a winter F4 series starting this December based in the southeast... to be followed by a full 9 weekend series. PFR is expected to make an announcement in Detroit on August 21st. (by then it will be the 14th F4 series announcement)(HPD/Tatuus)

[Steve Bamford]

It's the same pants-****ting level of incompetence that got them to where they are now.

While its kind of cute that the SCCA thinks they are still relevant enough to run something like this, I'm concerned that our membership fees will underwrite it.

My understanding in Pittsburgh was that the F4 would be run mixed class with F2000. From this thread, that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a firm answer?

If enough cars show up they will have their own grid. At this time there is enough orders to have a F4 grid. Based on the announcement of a 21 race weekend that can only give a few options.

1. Run with 1600 which runs 21 races
2. F2000 changes from 14 races to 21
3. 21 races under their own grid.

At this point I will bet on option number 3. FRP has been successful partly from having single class racing. I am betting they will do whatever is needed to keep things this way. Running mixed classes will take something away from FRP in my opinion.

[problemchild]

Only 10 days ago, the hot rumor was FRP, Anderson, and SCCA Pro were all in bed together with several Mazda-Powered Mygale F4 programs. Was that ever wrong!

What is next? Where is HPD going to surface?

[Purple Frog]

Like I said in #114, if you are going to be THE F4 player, the playground can't be NJMP, Pitt, Thompson. You've got to get to where the TV cameras are filming the main event. Support races for big weekends.
Think major events. The little league daddies won't care that the paddock is in the boonies and qualifying is at 8am, with the race at 5:30pm.

[Steve Bamford]

Like I said in #114, if you are going to be THE F4 player, the playground can't be NJMP, Pitt, Thompson. You've got to get to where the TV cameras are filming the main event. Support races for big weekends.
Think major events. The little league daddies won't care that the paddock is in the boonies and qualifying is at 8am, with the race at 5:30pm.

Then you are talking USF as Anderson has that locked up if it is Insy Car weekends.

As someone who has raced those weekends they really suck for track time and as a driver that is what is most valuable. Daddy may think otherwise as you have stated.

[Kazis31]

All F 4 cars come with integrated 2way camera system AND MOTOR IS Included .Frog.
I know over the years lots of programs have come and gone ,but this one has chance and
most importantly right price tag
not a 130k entry level formula lites......

[Michael Rand]

Lewis Carroll and Ralph Stedman would not have been able to understand this foolishness.....not with any pharmaceuticals known to man !

Hope that is not to obscure a reference ......

[Kazis31]

Most of guys here on apex are good old club and regional racers.
Let's face it none are gonna afford 150-200k a year to run F4 .
But for pro teams and guys that can afford it it's best bang for the pro buck
as far as i can see.
Anyone feel feel to correct me if I'm missing something.
And to reply to post that stated that it will be cheaper car to by but more expensive to run
see Mygale's spare parts catalog and weep.
their consumable parts prices are in some cases half of that FF and USF 2000 parts cost here .
And like i said few years down the line club guys will benefit by getting 30k+ carbon tub ,sequential gearbox and paddle shifted formula car.

tap out.

[Purple Frog]

[Steve Bamford]

Lewis Carroll and Ralph Stedman would not have been able to understand this foolishness.....not with any pharmaceuticals known to man !

Hope that is not to obscure a reference ......

Good one Mr Rand.

[helipilot04]

from this article. (http://www.racer.com/scca-home/item/...rmula-4-series)

QUOTE:::: "Each nation chooses their preferred chassis, engine, and tire, and that's what all competitors run",.....

So hasn't the chassis already been determined? If each NATION chooses it, and FRP has already choosen the Mygale, then dosent SCCA pro have to use the same chassis? And if that is true, wont any F4 in the US be able to race with any other F4 in the US..

OR.. Maybe someone was talking out of school (Robert Clarke) Just another in a long line of incompetent people running SCCA.

I know, lets not think reasonable, each player wants their own sand in their own sandbox.. SO the only thing this will do, is dilute the whole field.

Cheers SCCA, just go F up something else..

GO VINTAGE RACING!!!..

[Purple Frog]

Could be that FRP is not "officially" FIA sanctioned, and SCCA Pro being a paid up member of ACCUS is FIA sanctioned. SCCA may think they hold that trump card.
Just saying.

This, in my little world, is more fun than Trump 24/7 coverage.

[Kazis31]

got 20 bucks on Trump being next president...........

[helipilot04]

FROG... isnt FRP a member of SCCA Pro racing, thus FIA sanctioned??

[RSS]

[Steve Bamford]

Could be that FRP is not "officially" FIA sanctioned, and SCCA Pro being a paid up member of ACCUS is FIA sanctioned. SCCA may think they hold that trump card.
Just saying.

This, in my little world, is more fun than Trump 24/7 coverage.

But what trump card is there? FRP has been successful with open wheel racing as you have said in an earlier post. Other then playing bully and trying to hurt FRP what purpose does running a different F4 car make?

Since everyone in Club seems to be able to have a say in what potential spec tire we may end up with by 2030 do we also get a say on what F4 car is decided upon? Running a car that can run in Mexico and in FRP would only make sense if you were a rational business minded type individual.

[Purple Frog]

FRP is only part of SCCA Pro if SCCA Pro wants them to be...

Could be that Lisa and Mr. Clarke do not realize how good they had it for over 8 years while FRP paid SCCA Pro fees and ran great events for them, while they didn't have to raise a finger.

Follow the money.
Do you think there are rational business minded type individuals in Topeka?

[mousecatcher]

I can give 150 - 200 thousand reasons why to choose FRP over USF. Save those dollars for a season or two then come up with 500 plus grand and run Pro Mazda.

I think FRP F4 causes many more issues for USF then you are realizing.

FRP leads nowhere.

USF2000 winner gets a scholarship to PFM.

So the pro minded US-based driver will find USF2000 attractive for all the 400 thousand reasons they find it attractive today. If the new chassis can bring down the operating costs closer to F4 level, watch out.

[clint]

I jumped on the FE bandwagon right away. Excellent concept. Piss poor execution.

Couldn't agree more

[John LaRue]

Why limit the field to Tattus and Mygale and send the money overseas? Shouldn't the US manufacturers have a shot, they can produce as good if not better cars. Look at Swift, Algie, Crawford, Aerodine, etc...

[Steve Bamford]

Why limit the field to Tattus and Mygale and send the money overseas? Shouldn't the US manufacturers have a shot, they can produce as good if not better cars. Look at Swift, Algie, Crawford, Aerodine, etc...

I understand your question but I believe that ship has sailed. If they wanted to be in F4 they should have already had a car produced they could show & try to gain interest in it. Being a leader in business is tough at times & costs money, those who have invested originally should be rewarded.

The more manufactures you get the lower the production numbers for each one & the higher the overall costs. Yes American's can build good cars but so can the British & German's who have both decided to run imported cars. We are talking about having a series in 2016 so time is running out.

[John LaRue]

The more manufactures you get the lower the production numbers for each one & the higher the overall costs.

Same might be said for open wheel classes and series, eh?

[Steve Bamford]

Same might be said for open wheel classes and series, eh?

Yes Sir!

Another ship that sailed a long time ago but is still continuing on.

Hopefully SCCA & FRP will figure out a proper way to work together with F4 verses going in different directions as everyone involved loses out if they don't. Not sure what it will take but there must be some rational thinking some where in the racing world.

[Beartrax]

Like I said in #114, if you are going to be THE F4 player, the playground can't be NJMP, Pitt, Thompson. You've got to get to where the TV cameras are filming the main event. Support races for big weekends.
Think major events. The little league daddies won't care that the paddock is in the boonies and qualifying is at 8am, with the race at 5:30pm.

Not to knock the current staff at FRP, but when Mike Rand was creating the schedule, FRP got the "Cool Gigs": Indycar, American LeMans/IMSA. Dan has aligned himself with Indycar, so that is out, but there should be opportunities to race with the Big Show so the Young Guns can get noticed.

***Clarification: I was reminded that when F2000 was able to fit into a "Big Show Weekend", it was only F2000. There was no F1600 and FA. Easier to squeeze in back then. I had noticed that Mike Rand joined the conversation and I wanted to give the old guy a pat on the back. ;-)

FRP leads nowhere.

Apparently FRP leads to USF2000. Jake Eidson, Aaron Telitz, Garth Rickards, Ayla Agren, and Nikita Lastochkin are in the USF2000 Top Ten so far in 2015. In the last 2 years they all were at the front of the FRP F1600 fields.

[provamo]

http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/08/...-and-Pro-Mazda

[nulrich]

Someone else taking advantage of the low cost of F4 cars:

http://www.newracingschool.com/

[DFR Dave Freitas]

FRP, Cooper Series and SCCA need to all sit in a room, pick a common chassis and make that the official USF4 car.

This is their chance to bring small bore open wheel cars into the 21st century here and unite it, but at the moment it seems like they are doing their darndest to miss the boat on this opportunity.

Suck up your pride, get together and do the right thing. In the long run all parties involved will win.

[problemchild]

FRP, Cooper Series and SCCA need to all sit in a room, pick a common chassis and make that the official USF4 car.

This is their chance to bring small bore open wheel cars into the 21st century here and unite it, but at the moment it seems like they are doing their darndest to miss the boat on this opportunity.

Suck up your pride, get together and do the right thing. In the long run all parties involved will win.

Good luck on that one. Three Series competing for potentially 25 funded drivers. 15 of those will end up with Anderson in 2017. It will be interesting to see if FRP or SCCA (rebranded FLites) will establish enough base in 2016 to survive.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

This is a very interesting discussion. I agree with DFR that they need to choose 1 car and 1 spec so that they can ALL maximize entries.

This is like the locked cell phone situation. Building something to only work in 1 series is stupid..

All I know is that this is going to give me an opportunity to upgrade to someone else's sloppy seconds for cheap in the future...

In a matter of a couple weeks, the $60k cars are now worth $40k, the $40k cars are now worth $25.....

[Rolling Stone]

NOT quite true when you consider they are taking the new GT to Le Mans next year!

Ye REAL racing:>)not NASCRAP

[reidhazelton]

FRP, Cooper Series and SCCA need to all sit in a room, pick a common chassis and make that the official USF4 car.

This is their chance to bring small bore open wheel cars into the 21st century here and unite it, but at the moment it seems like they are doing their darndest to miss the boat on this opportunity.

Suck up your pride, get together and do the right thing. In the long run all parties involved will win.

Nostradamus prediction:

FRP will listen to their customers and develop a series that caters to that very well. Mygale/Ford/Hoosier with a lot of track time and good value. It will be well subscribed and FF will be gone in 3 years.

Anderson will cost 3x what FRP does, being a similar product but with Mazda power and run with Indy Car - that no one shows up to watch anyway. Dad's will pay because it is 'the Road to Indy'.

SCCA will offer a spec F4 that is completely different from the above. They will send out survey after survey asking for input and receive tens and tens of letters. They will all be ignored. It will be a Pirelli-shod, 3-on-the-tree, Fiat-powered Tatuus that is 'equalized' to current FLites and FEs - who will be forced to buy about $5k in 'updates'. Of course, only available from Enterprise. They will get 5 entries and proclaim it 'a success for the best young driver's in the country'. (Anyone remember when SCCA tried to have the FE/SRF 'pro' series? That was a dud.) With such a massive success on their hands they will make it a new class in SCCA due to 'massive demand', despite telling everyone 'read my lips...NO NEW CLASSES'. After sales level off and eventually decline in about 3 years, SCCA will abandon any interest in F4 and go on to the next thing they can sell cars in.

[problemchild]

All I know is that this is going to give me an opportunity to upgrade to someone else's sloppy seconds for cheap in the future...

In a matter of a couple weeks, the $60k cars are now worth $40k, the $40k cars are now worth $25.....

Good luck on that one. This will have virtually no effect on club racing. Perhaps if enough people talk about it then some cars worth $0.40 on the dollar will now be worth $0.38 on the dollar.