Formula Race Promotions Launching new FIA Spec Formula 4 car

[Jnovak]

I must have missed the post that stated that the Lites race car was a possibility for F4. Am I misunderstanding some of this discussion?

The Lites car has a 2.4 L Honda engine and the F4 car has a 160 hp 1.6 L Ford.

[SStadel]

Steve, I think what you're saying (or not saying) is that Crawford should go to Andersen with a plan similar to that. I'm sure they have the RFP in their hands.

Without the MRTI the steps lead to nowhere unfortunately. With one exception. If FRP would embrace what you're saying someone could conceivably get to Indy Lights through a much less expensive ladder. Dad could see what the kid has without spending the $ going through the MRTI ladder. He would be a bit behind though without already having been at the "shows" with IndyCar, the lack of oval experience and probably not having any time at the tracks that they run.

FRP would have to make room for the FL15 as the "fast" group, which would probably mean the demise of the Atlantic Championship.

Otherwise your suggestion is sound!

[Steve Bamford]

I must have missed the post that stated that the Lites race car was a possibility for F4. Am I misunderstanding some of this discussion?

The Lites car has a 2.4 L Honda engine and the F4 car has a 160 hp 1.6 L Ford.

Jay,

F4 cars can a run a number of different engine packages as long as they are approved by the FIA, which includes being a set price point.

As to your other post, SCCA Pro has not announced which package they are going with but could very likely be going with a Honda package for their car based on the ties the individual who runs SCCA Pro has with Honda. Lets say they decided upon Crawford, then why not run the the Lites car with increased HP as the next rung up past F4 & have their own Road to Indy program? Instead of MRTI (Mazda Road to Indy) as you said, it could be HRTI (Honda Road to Indy).

Sorry I am just pointing out what seems fairly obvious to me if they decided upon Crawford.

[HazelNut]

I find all this "ladder" and "career" talk 100% ridiculous.


I'm sorry Indycar is terrible. Ladders are generally propped up against something solid that you need or want to get on top of, are they not? Not a failing, uninteresting, financial train wreck that offers minimal value to sponsors with a goofy looking car that nobody outside of the die hard establishment cares about.

[Steve Bamford]

I find all this "ladder" and "career" talk 100% ridiculous.


I'm sorry Indycar is terrible. Ladders are generally propped up against something solid that you need or want to get on top of, are they not? Not a failing, uninteresting, financial train wreck that offers minimal value to sponsors with a goofy looking car that nobody outside of the die hard establishment cares about.

You may feel that way, but there is other people who are out there spending money & receiving funding to attempt to achieve this dream...not saying it is right or wrong but it is happening.

[HazelNut]

That's internal interest, not public interest. The public at large doesn't care.

I just did some quick googling. The most talked about indycar race of the year atautoclub speedway had 3000fans in attendance and a .37 Nielsen rating, by comparison something called "SENOR DE LOS CIELOS III" on Telemundo got a 1.0 Nielsen rating


That's "no Bueno".

[HazelNut]

I will ad, I have zero issues with this as a hobby and people spending $ on whatever class/car they choose. (Hell I do!), but to call it a legit sustainable business model or reasonable establisher of long term careers is insane.

[Spengo]

I find all this "ladder" and "career" talk 100% ridiculous.


I'm sorry Indycar is terrible. Ladders are generally propped up against something solid that you need or want to get on top of, are they not? Not a failing, uninteresting, financial train wreck that offers minimal value to sponsors with a goofy looking car that nobody outside of the die hard establishment cares about.

But where should people go instead? F1 is just as terrible if not worse. NASCAR's popularity is declining as well. Is there a "road to WEC?" The Mazda Road to Indy ladder is at least well-established, local, and full of big prize money.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

The problem with the ladder concept is that, yet again, its being given that hard work and paying your dues is an antiquated concept. Example: the kid driving for Nissan at LeMans. 6 months prior he'd never been in a race car....

[EACIII]

Just got a press release that says 14 or maybe 19 F4 Mygales have been sold already in the US. Think it is the 19 figure. So it seems people are buying these cars.

Ed

[Monty M]

Side-stepping all the weird tangents this thread has gone off on, we released some news today: In the 10 days following the Series announcement some 14 cars have been ordered. More at http://usf4.com/news/

[stonebridge20]

14 F4 cars sold already. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding"

[HazelNut]

But where should people go instead? F1 is just as terrible if not worse. NASCAR's popularity is declining as well. Is there a "road to WEC?" The Mazda Road to Indy ladder is at least well-established, local, and full of big prize money.

Maybe just learn to race for the love of it? And if you can figure out how to get it to pay for itself along the way count yourself as decidedly lucky?

[HazelNut]

Side-stepping all the weird tangents this thread has gone off on, we released some news today: In the 10 days following the Series announcement some 14 cars have been ordered. More at http://usf4.com/news/

[Dennis McCarthy]

As Brendan says whole open wheel ladder deal is pretty laughable. How many US drivers have made it to F1 in the past fifty years? The idea of basing a whole sport and industry on a handful is pretty ludicrous on it's face. Whether your racing formula cars or horses the funded drivers will move up as they have always done. The target demographic should be the recreational driver who has reached the age where he or she has some disposable income.

Everyone should go back and reread Tim Minor's post and when finished reread it again because he hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't the cars or their lack of sophistication the real problem which none of the sanctioning groups is focusing on is simply lack of participation and the reasons for it. There are plenty of fully paid for open wheel cars to go around where no one has to reach into their pockets except to go racing. The capital investment in car, spares, tools and transport has already been made. Why aren't those cars racing?

Going racing at one time was somewhat of a social event, everyone on the grid knew the other drivers, their crew members and many of the event workers. There were parties and BBQ's and people spent quality time with like minded individuals who while sharing a passion found time to make the weekends a social event as well. I'd suggest that is a lot of what is missing and keeping the myriad of existing cars at home in garages. All the new whizzy carbon cars in the world won't fix that.....

[rickb99]

That's internal ......and a .37 Nielsen rating, by comparison something called "SENOR DE LOS CIELOS III" on Telemundo got a 1.0 Nielsen rating.....

Considering a rating point is worth about 1.2 Million households, .37 equals less then 500,000 households watching. That's not good at all when you consider the grand stands are nearly empty. But then you need to remember the highest Nielsen rating program of ALL TIME is still I Love Lucy with the Arther Godfrey show in second.

But then you have to consider, the world series used to pull Nielsen's of around 18 to 25! Today, they are lucky to pull 7 to 10 with a World Series. So, the point is TV is becoming irrelevant when compared to the life of Paris Hilton.

[John LaRue]

Considering a rating point is worth about 1.2 Million households, .37 equals less then 500,000 a million households watching. That's not good at all when you consider the grand stands are nearly empty. But then you need to remember the highest Nielsen rating program of ALL TIME is still I Love Lucy with the Arther Godfrey show in second.

But then you have to consider, the world series used to pull Nielsen's of around 18 to 25! Today, they are lucky to pull 7 to 10 with a World Series. So, the point is TV is becoming irrelevant when compared to the life of Paris Hilton.

The problem with Nielsen ratings for TV is actually quite similar to what we are doing in open wheel racing. The reason that the old shows had such tremendous ratings was because there were only the big three networks ABC, CBS, NBC competing for the viewing audience. While the overall viewing audience is up today, it is fractured among countless broadcast networks not to mention all of the streaming "on-line" content that is available 24/7. With all of the "variety" that is available today they will likely never again pull the same Nielsen figures of yesterday. Same thing with our open wheel racing. As we add more and more options with cars, classes and sanctioning bodies (good or bad) we are bound to see smaller participation figures per event/class.

[RSS]

14 F4 cars sold already. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding"

Hmm 14 F4 cars sold and 14 FC Zetecs for sale. I am starting to believe in numerology.

[HazelNut]

As Brendan says whole open wheel ladder deal is pretty laughable. How many US drivers have made it to F1 in the past fifty years? The idea of basing a whole sport and industry on a handful is pretty ludicrous on it's face. Whether your racing formula cars or horses the funded drivers will move up as they have always done. The target demographic should be the recreational driver who has reached the age where he or she has some disposable income.

Everyone should go back and reread Tim Minor's post and when finished reread it again because he hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't the cars or their lack of sophistication the real problem which none of the sanctioning groups is focusing on is simply lack of participation and the reasons for it. There are plenty of fully paid for open wheel cars to go around where no one has to reach into their pockets except to go racing. The capital investment in car, spares, tools and transport has already been made. Why aren't those cars racing?

Going racing at one time was somewhat of a social event, everyone on the grid knew the other drivers, their crew members and many of the event workers. There were parties and BBQ's and people spent quality time with like minded individuals who while sharing a passion found time to make the weekends a social event as well. I'd suggest that is a lot of what is missing and keeping the myriad of existing cars at home in garages. All the new whizzy carbon cars in the world won't fix that.....

I disagree with Dennis on most things but we're 100% in agreement here.

[a. pettipas]

...something called "SENOR DE LOS CIELOS III" on Telemundo got a 1.0 Nielsen rating

Totally deserving of a full Nielsen, way better than IndyCar.

[gcoffin]

Lmao, more than 20 posts for each car sold.....this is a game changer......anyone ever try and actually buy a Mygale part?

[Steve Bamford]

Lmao, more than 20 posts for each car sold.....this is a game changer......anyone ever try and actually buy a Mygale part?

Yep. Lots.

[Kazis31]

19 cars sold .
If it is true this must be some kind of new formula club racing series record.
All in 6 month time to inaugural season opening.
Will give guys plenty seat time to practice and give us club guys solid feedback.
Kudos.............F4 and FRP

[AGMelv]

Steve - the $60k quote... is that with the sequential gearbox but no paddles? Or does the $60k price include everything except for spares?

[Steve Bamford]

Everything. Spares extra. Mygale North America will be at every event with full spares.

[H.L.Tallman]

Lmao, more than 20 posts for each car sold.....this is a game changer......anyone ever try and actually buy a Mygale part?

Yup, anyone that owns one knows. Fortunately as a group we have found companies over here to make almost every part needed. As good or better quality, as good or better pricing, no exchange rates, and better delivery times. The Mygale cars are very good cars. The problem has always been parts and service. With the few numbers of them out there you can't walk around the paddock and find a part you need if you break something. But then again of you have a small group of spares , you should be OK. Oh BTW For Sale 2003 Mygale F2000 car.........................................

HT

[Jnovak]

Is the paddle shifter mechanical or pneumatic?

[Swift17]

FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES:

If we ass/u/me that Crawford is going to build a new F4 then ............

.... maybe it should also spec/construct a non-winged version, non paddle but convertible trans, Fit powered, smaller side pod car for Formula F - it would be cheaper that current MyGales and Spectrums

... and possibly that can be convertible to F4 in the future with the acquisition of a F4 update kit - all Honda powered

The Indy Lights and the Indy car currently have the same TUB;

Note I'll be keeping a Ford Powered Swift

[AGMelv]

Is the paddle shifter mechanical or pneumatic?

Looks like it would be pneumatic based on the user manual? Page 37

http://usf4.com/wp-content/uploads/2...A-Formula4.pdf

[mousecatcher]

Comic Sans font?!?!! Guess that isn't the car for me.

[dc]

Comic Sans font?!?!! Guess that isn't the car for me.

The manual and car were assembled by 3rd graders.

[Swift17]

....to 308

.... maybe it should also spec/construct a non-winged version, non paddle but convertible trans, Fit powered, smaller side pod car for Formula F - it would be cheaper that current MyGales and Spectrums

[HazelNut]

the front wing look pretty cosmetic. no flaps?

has anyone seen the MSA f4 series site? check out the podium photos. How old are those kids racing these things in the UK? 12?!?!?!?!


http://msaformula.com/gallery/page/4/

[Spengo]

the front wing look pretty cosmetic. no flaps?

has anyone seen the MSA f4 series site? check out the podium photos. How old are those kids racing these things in the UK? 12?!?!?!?!


http://msaformula.com/gallery/page/4/

A skip barber instructor told me he once had an 11yo do their class.

[Tiago Santos]

the front wing look pretty cosmetic. no flaps?

has anyone seen the MSA f4 series site? check out the podium photos. How old are those kids racing these things in the UK? 12?!?!?!?!


http://msaformula.com/gallery/page/4/

Quite a few 15 year olds, most of them with several european and world karting championships already.

[Michael Rand]

I believe some of the National F4 series actually have age limitations, like 14-18 max age maybe, or did I come up with that over cocktail hour while trolling this thread...
Yup, drives one to drink !

[iamuwere]

has anyone seen the MSA f4 series site? check out the podium photos. How old are those kids racing these things in the UK? 12?!?!?!?!


http://msaformula.com/gallery/page/4/

Charles' NAMBLA sticker may be finally, but never actually, appropriate.

[Lotus7]

14 F4 cars sold already. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding"

Just curious, neither enthusiastic (yet) nor cynical (yet), but does anyone know if these 14/19 'sales' just token "deposit showing my interest", or something more substantial like "here's 50%, build my car" ???

[Steve Bamford]

Just curious, neither enthusiastic (yet) nor cynical (yet), but does anyone know if these 14/19 'sales' just token "deposit showing my interest", or something more substantial like "here's 50%, build my car" ???

I can only answer for myself and I sent 25 k as a deposit to secure my car.

[AGMelv]

the front wing look pretty cosmetic. no flaps?

has anyone seen the MSA f4 series site? check out the podium photos. How old are those kids racing these things in the UK? 12?!?!?!?!


http://msaformula.com/gallery/page/4/

MSA allows 15 year olds - hence why Herta shipped off to England.