So What's This???

[the Wizard]

Hey Guys,

Update on car: I've been in touch with Darrell Soppe. He's given me a few brief bits of advice, but I don't want to overwhelm him....lol. Interestingly, after I asked him about starting this engine after 20 years....he said go for it....considering the engine will not be highly stressed ever again. I did ask him about breaking a valve spring, and he did acknowledge some risk. But if I could get it started up I think I'd for sure then pull the heads and at least bring those current.

So this thread might go on for a bit, there's just so much on the car that I don't recognize. But I thought this might be easy and fun for you guys as well. First is the ring on top on the fuel cell in the photo below. It connects to a momentary on or off toggle switch....what is it? There is also a toggle switch on the dash, which I assume is ignition. And a red momentary on pushbutton that I don't get. And that's all the electrical switches....3 total.

[provamo]

just make sure that none of the fuel hoses/lines leaks

[ianashdown]

It the eye the safety crews could pull to kill all power. Basically the same as the ignition switch on the dash. Used to be the idea was they could pull it with a hook on a pole to kill power to the fuel pump if the car was on fire.

Ian

[the Wizard]

Ian....it certainly appears like a kill switch, but it's a momentary switch, that's what's confusing for me. When you let go it returns to its original position???

provamo...Darrell did suggest cleaning the fuel cell, filter pump, meter unit, and all the lines. Two questions. How do you do this? What fluid do you use to pump through? And how do you pump since it's engine driven? Second question...do the SS braided lines age? Are they ok, or in general do they need to be replaced?

The questions just go on and on.....for every one answered it feels like 3 more pop up...lol.....

[ianashdown]

Hi,
In my experience these have not been momentry switches. Perhaps it has bee incorrectly replaced? The other alternative perhaps is could it be a trigger for the fire system?
Many cars of this era had an external drive that drove a pump inside the tank used to get pressure up prior to starting. This was usually driven by a makita cordless, so you migh look for a shaft or some other drive sticking out of the top plate.
Ian

[teamwisconsin]

Some DFV-era F1 cars had a cable that killed power and fired the fire bottles, there was also a momentary switch that would be activated By the same cable that would fire off the diver bottle that would supply air to the drivers helmet. I think Indycars used the same helmet system.

[the Wizard]

Ok, I did a little work with a vom this morning. The pull ring has two positions....both momentary, as in it returns to its initial state when you let go. In the first pull position the voltage going to the ignition switch is killed. If you pull further to the second position another pair of wires are connected that I believe goes to the push button on the dash, which I'm still trying to figure out....but that I'm thinking has to do with a fire system, but I see no nozzles anywhere. I was supplied with a remote of some sort in the photo below.

[the Wizard]

Ian....maybe this is the external manual fuel pump drive you mentioned? There was a T-handle supplied that fits this, but when I try to crank it a bit it does rotate but only for 20-30 degrees or so and then stops. It obviously is coming out of the top of the engine rather than the fuel cell?

[the Wizard]

And while doing all of that I found this little box tucked away near the engine electronics with a couple electrical wires going to it....not a clue here? It does have a thermal sticker on it to monitor when it might get too hot.

[ianashdown]

Hmmm. Not sure what that is. If it were the starting pump drive it should rotate freely.

Ian

[teamwisconsin]

Ian....maybe this is the external manual fuel pump drive you mentioned? There was a T-handle supplied that fits this, but when I try to crank it a bit it does rotate but only for 20-30 degrees or so and then stops. It obviously is coming out of the top of the engine rather than the fuel cell?

That looks like the mixture adjustment. But I don't know if DFX's use the same bomb unit as the DFV's that I'm familiar with. The other button you describe is for the fire system, the control box you showed above is the box which will have a 9V battery in which does the work when you push the button to set off the extinguisher.

[the Wizard]

Bomb unit? Ok, I learned a new term. That cable rotates slightly more than 90 degrees, and then stops. Please explain bomb?

I traced out the second set of wires for the "kill" ring. They are in parallel to the push button on the dash. So, half pull kills the ignition, and a full pull adds firing the bottle I assume. The wires from the push button appear to go into the rightside tub channel, not the sidepod, the smaller channel that is part of the tub. I'm not sure what's in there. Drawings I have show a fire bottle under a panel below the drivers legs....so I'll check that tomorrow. But, I have yet to see any nozzles.

And the fact that ring kill switch is a momentary still seems puzzling?

[teamwisconsin]

The bomb is the colloquial term for the distributor/stator/metering unit that sits in the valley of the vee of the DFV.

[the Wizard]

Ahhh all three pieces? Interesting. Which brings me to another embarrassing detail I don't understand about this car. Stator? Is the electrical system run via a magneto?

[pakracer]

Square cable is fuel on off. quarter turn is all it should go. one way is on other way is off . If you have that, it probably is a ignition system, since the DFX had a mechanical fuel injection system, it included a distributor/ alternator by lucas.

[the Wizard]

Ok, that's makes sense. The few notes that came with the car about starting and stopping etc keeps mentioning turning the fuel on and off, and I just couldn't figure that out.....but this makes it clear. Piece by piece I am figuring this car out and becoming somewhat less overwhelmed with it...lol.

Today I replaced all three master cylinders and cleaned that front area of the car up quite a bit. The cylinders were leaking and the rubber boot was literally melted and dripping to a pile of goop. Nice to get that cleaned up. It was the only obvious sore spot on the car....everything else seems in good condition.

If I can figure out have to drain the oil (help?) I'll crank the engine and look for oil pressure. If I get pressure and it cranks nicely I assume I'll go ahead and try to start it, maybe with some help from an expert. And, if it seems to run I think the good advice I'm getting is to then pull the heads and replace valves and springs.

I'm a bit worried about the condition of the fuel cell....keeping my fingers crossed there.

TeamWisconsin.....I did finally get instructions for that electric module for the halogen system. Tested it and it seems to be operating properly....even finally found where the bottle was hiding....lol.

Windshields are being made. Slowly making progress....stay tuned.....

[indytoney]

First warm the engine with a space heater before you do anything.


1. Remove the plugs.
2. Bump the start 3-4 times watching the oil pressure gauge for pressure.
3. If you have oil pressure, free spin the engine until mist of fuel comes from engine.


Replace plugs.
1. Turn on ignition. (Make battery is connected and charged)
2. Have some one use starter, as you spray starter fluid into cold turbo side with throttle working. It will run on the ether until the fuel picks up. Warm at 4000-6000 rpm's.

[the Wizard]

Thought I’d close out this old thread with a photo of the good, and not so good, help I got from you guys, with all my newbie questions.

THANKS!!!

Indy earlier this year....

[Rick Kirchner]

since you are in LA - do you know Tom Malloy at Trench Shoring? He has a huge shop that's really a museum and a couple of these penskes. I'm sure he's be happy to help with any more questions. I believe he has a lot of the stuff required to service these things.

[the Wizard]

Yes, I have heard of him, and even reached out once for a part. Trying to get a tour someday when I’m in that area. But, my goal on this car is complete, and I may never drive it again...we’ll see.

thanks