FM vs F-Enterprises?

[mstephenson51]

Guys what is your take on FM vs F-Ent?

Pros vs cons?

Im guessing the FM is faster laps, cheaper to maintain/repair, and more of them? F-Ent is a little more modern and more modern "looks"?

What are your thoughts?

[Albatross]

What is the general consensus for the future of each class? Isn't the FM less expensive to race? Which class has the most entrants for the tracks that you will be racing on?

[Marshall Mauney]

Guys what is your take on FM vs F-Ent?

Pros vs cons?

Im guessing the FM is faster laps, cheaper to maintain/repair, and more of them? F-Ent is a little more modern and more modern "looks"?

What are your thoughts?

Lap time comparisons depend on the track; the FE engine has a lot more torque, so it pulls VERY strongly off tight corners in comparison.

Car counts are very region-specific. For example, last weekend at the Blackhawk Major we had 12 FEs and no FMs. In other parts of the country you might find more FMs than FEs.

One really big difference, though, is the CSR support system. In any area where there are FEs, there will generally be a CSR at the track for Majors, and maybe for some divisionals, as well. Having a source of support and spares at the track is worth a lot. I'm sure that there are some prep shops that do similar things for FM, so it really comes down to the support and competition level in your specific area.

[mstephenson51]

Lap time comparisons depend on the track; the FE engine has a lot more torque, so it pulls VERY strongly off tight corners in comparison.

Car counts are very region-specific. For example, last weekend at the Blackhawk Major we had 12 FEs and no FMs. In other parts of the country you might find more FMs than FEs.

One really big difference, though, is the CSR support system. In any area where there are FEs, there will generally be a CSR at the track for Majors, and maybe for some divisionals, as well. Having a source of support and spares at the track is worth a lot. I'm sure that there are some prep shops that do similar things for FM, so it really comes down to the support and competition level in your specific area.

Some interesting points. The thing I start to wonder, Will one go by the wayside and combine with the other?

[provamo]

i will ask you, what are your intentions?

i drove an FM it was a blast !

i like the FE concept

car counts? there are TOO MANY CLASSES! (both of these are really just "EFF TWO THOUSAND CARS"

it really depends upon you being HONEST with yourself in deciding what you want and or can afford

[S Lathrop]

You really need to think about what you want to achieve as a driver. The FM and the FE are significantly different and as such demand different driving skills. The skill set you develop at this level will be the skill set you take to your next class or level in racing.

Speaking from my experiences as a race car engineer in higher level classes, I think the FE is probably the better choice. But that recommendation only holds if formula cars are your ultimate goal. FM might be a superior choice for other types of race cars.

[mstephenson51]

Very good info to think about.

I drove an FM a few days, and did one race. I do remember that car being something of an "in-between" real formula cars and bodied cars. So the FE drives more like a formula car? thats sounding great for me.

Im 34 yrs old so I fully realize that I will likely not be driving in high up classes so what I am really looking for is a class that has decent turnout (3-10 cars), high fun level, low costs, reliable equipment.

Sounds like with some tracks the FM is faster and others the FE is faster? Looks like costs are similar?

Opinions on Carbs on the FM vs EFI on the FE? Reason I ask, I race shifter karts now and at times the carb tuning is a huge headache.

EDIT: So, I totally agree with the comment of being too many classes. Karts have the same issue. diluted participation, people get frustrated and leave all together, stuff gets expensive just because nobody runs the same stuff, etc. I almost think FE is one of those classes that looked great at first but will fizzle out bc theres too many classes already. Thoughts?

Thanks all!

[S Lathrop]

There is a lot of appeal in a "spec" class but you might take a quick look at FC. You can find some really great 90's vintage cars at way less than either a FM or FE. Good Pinto engines are inexpensive and if cared for will last a season or 2 in between rebuilds. The learning curve will be steeper because setup is more critical to you performance.

But I would go with the class that has the best turnout in your area.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

All the reasons I bought an fc.

[sflaten]

I bought an FM 5 years ago as it was felt this was a reasonably inexpesive car to race. It seemed to be on the higher end of performance, above the FF, FV etc.

Have heard that there is a feeling that FM and FE are similar and would run about the same lap times. I have found that in racing against the FE, as said in earlier comments, the FE seems to pull away from me off the corners. At BIR up in Minnesota I am the only FM at events other than when out at Road America, and Iowa. Normally at BIR there is one FE and 3 FC. The lap times of FC and FE are are 1:30+ for record laps and I am at 1;39, but I have some more skill to build. Still feels like the torque off the corners the FC and FE have exceeds what my car can put out. Slipping and sliding the car to maintain momentum is important.

This is just my take on comparison of the three cars, so hope that helps you get a feel.

[daericks]

I agree with the comments above. I can tell you that cost to run is key and the FM wins there, that is why my team selected FM. The field is less than half of what it was last year and I don't think we will ever see those numbers again out west. FE is stagnant from what I can tell. If I had the chance to do it over again, I'd run FC because there is always competition. Costs go with it but what fun is it to run with only 4-5 cars?

I am for combining the classes. Give the FM EFI, new spec motor, and some suspension leeway and let's race!

[Josh Pitt]

But I would go with the class that has the best turnout in your area.

I have owned/raced cars a few different classes, while I was racing them, I would say they were your best choice to buy. this is the biased we all have and it serves to reinforce our own choice of car/class. we do it with our choice of clubs we choose to race with also. consider this ( the source)when getting input from others.

I have learned the thing that really matters is what steve has pointed out.

I don't care how cheap or fast a car is, it is just NOT fun to race in a class all by yourself.

[Daryl DeArman]

I don't care how cheap or fast a car is, it is just NOT fun to race in a class all by yourself.

I couldn't agree more. Coming from IKF karting in SoCal in the early 90's and then doing roundy-round stuff right after that---it wasn't until I was road racing cars that I had fewer than 15-20 cars in my class. Heck, my first FF race in 2004 had over 40 cars! Yep 2004, VARA at Cal Speedway 40+ cars. Unfortunately, I had issues all weekend....so didn't really have anybody to race how's that for irony?

[Purple Frog]

FM is the only class where you can buy a $20K car and have a reasonable chance of winning the Runoffs.
Franklin sold his for like $18.5 after winning the runoffs with it a few years ago.
They are tanks, and can withstand a fair bit of "farming". And the driver has a fair amount of robust protection, which makes some wives happy.
To win you must use all the slip angle the tire will allow and then some.
It will resell for whatever you pay for it because there are guys at "country club" tracks that are buying them.

[Marshall Mauney]

FE is stagnant from what I can tell.

Really? Every Majors race I've been in this year has had 11 or more FEs. As of today, FE is the third-largest formula car class in participation, behind FV and FF.

http://www.scca.com/pages/majors-participation-2

If I had the chance to do it over again, I'd run FC because there is always competition. Costs go with it but what fun is it to run with only 4-5 cars?

Last weekend at Road America we had 5 FCs, 11 FEs, and 0 FMs. At the Sprints we had 13 FEs, 9 FMs and 6 FCs. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but if you're in CenDiv, FE is the only winged open-wheel class with significant participation week-to-week. In any case, total Majors participation puts both FE and FM ahead of FC at the moment.

I am for combining the classes. Give the FM EFI, new spec motor, and some suspension leeway and let's race!

That's no longer a spec class. You would lose the majority of the FE drivers in about 5 minutes with that proposal. There's a reason that people buy and race spec cars - racing against a group of identical cars. In FE last week, we had about half of the field qualify within a few tenths of each other - and I was dead center of the pack, 0.001 ahead of the next car. That's what spec racing is about - and those kind of races bring people back for more (myself included).

If it ain't broken, don't fix it - and Enterprises has gotten FE to where it's working pretty darned well for a good number of drivers.

[gcoffin]

Majors participation lists 19 different FM drivers vs 4 FE drivers in the Mid-States Conference where you are located. Looks like your area has the highest FM participation and the lowest FE. This does not guarantee larger FM fields near your location but it is an indicator.

[riderxracer]

As a lifetime formula car owner/driver in all the open wheel classes I have about 32 years experience. Here' s my 2 c for what it's worth.

FA - great fun to drive, a real race car, takes much talent, money and crew help to go fast. Not for the faint of heart or pocketbook.

FB - fast , affordable fun. Almost as fast as the atlantics. Somewhat open rule book demands fairly often updates to keep up, engine supply may become an issue. Nice cars with lots of appeal, a growing class.

FC- nice , fast cars with low aero drag, newer stuff fairly expensive to operate as competition demands constant update, requires more tuning at the track to run at front ( gears, springs,bars, ect) not a great car for beginners

FE - modern design, seq gearbox, spec class, level playing field, easier to be competitive without great expense or work, spec Hoosier tires at national discount prices ( I ran a set for 17 cycles and still won races this year) , likely the best formula car bang for buck. Older chassis can run at front and win. My current car. It ran 11 races this year, made every test session, made every qualifying and race lap without 1 failure (until the Runoffs, a long painful affair)

FM - good durable open wheel car, inexpensive to operate, parts less expensive and readily available, great fun to drive, little older technology

F440/500/600 - was a less expensive entry level car when I started , the 600's are awesome fast for what they are, look like fun to drive, competition has created multi builders, Probaly still the least expensive formula car class to participate in.

The biggest problem is with all the open wheel classes is dilution and lack of participation across the board. Are there to many classes ? Is open wheel just to expensive ?
So now SCCA throws FE under the bus and creates another open wheel class. I suppose we are all going to have to get a SM if we want to keep racing.

Just my experienced opinion. Not intended to alienate anyone. I have the greatest respect for all open wheel racers.

Lee Rackley
FE # 79

[Kazis31]

One vote for FE.

[daericks]

Thanks RiderX. I wish that post would have existed a couple of years ago. It is pretty spot on with one exception... I run a FM right now and I can tell you that parts are NOT readily available. Try to order a rear wing or shocks. See how long it takes to find anyone with them in stock. I just bought a second car just to have parts. At least they are cheap!

[dmccallum]

I just don't get it. I have never had a problem getting parts from Moses. I have been running FM for five years. I call Texas Autosports, tell them what I need and they ship it. He always has every part and has always been helpful if I need any advice.
Dale McCallum

[wannabe]

ditto. never been a problem.