How many PSI on Air-Jacks???

[the Wizard]

For an 82 Penske PC10???

Thanks.....

[Charles Warner]

I don't think you can hurt them. Start with 100 psi and go from there. See what is required to lift the car at a desired speed.

[the Wizard]

Right now I can only make 100 PSI, so I had the same idea. But when I got to the car I saw that the quick disconnect was much larger than that standard size I use in the garage. Guess I have to figure that out and go pick one up....thanks.....

[Rick Kirchner]

Be sure and use a lanyard to tie off the hose at the stinger. A friend of mine was crewing for Whittington Bros in the early 80's. they had the car up on the jacks and he was working on the rear upright. Someone walked through the garage and tripped over the jack hose. The stinger snapped off and dropped the car on the first joint of his index finger, smashing it flat.

I said "that must have hurt like hell" and he replied " I don't remember much of it. The hose flew around the garage and hit me right between the eyes and knocked me out."


figure the back of the car is about 1000 lb - they had a 1500 lb weight limit back then. it's a single 2.5-ish cylinder IIRC, That's about 5" of surface area, so closer to 200 psi, less if it's bigger.

[the Wizard]

Geezzz, crazy story....

I think your calculation of 200 PSI is about right.

[Phil Creighton]

Charlies right on the way to work up to the pressure you need but you will need a good nitogen regulator (not one with a max of 250ish) and probably end up at about 250-300. The PC10 had really small air jack diameters at the front. Put an on/off valve like they do in sports cars some where so you can let it down slowly - either as an adapter between the air line and the car inlet or somewhere after the inlet so the hose can be released with the car still up. A bleed valve at the regulator helps to get rid of line pressure.
I'm sure someone on here can sell you a good regulator if you don't have one.
Phil

[the Wizard]

Phil, I see what you're saying and understand. But, and sorry if this sounds incredibly naive, but how do I get approaching 300 PSI? My home compressor goes to about 100, and I think I've seen some that go slightly higher, but do I have to buy some gigantic compressor, or am I renting nitrogen bottles? Is there some sort of PSI multiplier out there?

[David Ferguson]

You will need a nitrogen bottle (starts at 2500 PSI +) with appropriate regulator. You can get these at a local welding gas supply house (ie, Airgas, Praxair, etc).

[the Wizard]

OK, I think I got what I need, thanks. Time for next post about the wind screen!

[the Wizard]

mistake.....please ignore

[Lotus7]

Phil, I see what you're saying and understand. But, and sorry if this sounds incredibly naive, but how do I get approaching 300 PSI? My home compressor goes to about 100, and I think I've seen some that go slightly higher, but do I have to buy some gigantic compressor, or am I renting nitrogen bottles? Is there some sort of PSI multiplier out there?

Truly, I'm adding this with the absolute best of intentions, so hopefully I won't get banned for being negative, but based on this thread are you sure you should own/drive this particular car ?

[Charles Warner]

It's called a learning curve. All of us have them. Give him a break. At least he is seeking guidance from those with experience.

[Pop Chevy]

I wish I had a Penske PC 10 to ask questions about !! Someday, maybe, I'll own an Indy Car. There is a wealth of info on the forum, ask away.

[provamo]

Phil, I see what you're saying and understand. But, and sorry if this sounds incredibly naive, but how do I get approaching 300 PSI? My home compressor goes to about 100, and I think I've seen some that go slightly higher, but do I have to buy some gigantic compressor, or am I renting nitrogen bottles? Is there some sort of PSI multiplier out there?

hey the guy is a WIZARD cut him some slack

go for it, it is JUST A CAR!

[Lotus7]

It's called a learning curve. All of us have them. Give him a break. At least he is seeking guidance from those with experience.

Mr. Warner, I have admired your posts here for years, but all I was doing was suggesting there might be a better car for a person who appears to be starting out. Yes, I freely admit I knew the square root of F-all when I started 32 years ago, but I started on a Crossle 50F, not a PC10 :-)

[Charles Warner]

Ya gotta start somewhere. I'm guessing he has some experience with cars, just not this one. If not, then Darwin takes over.

[the Wizard]

I have been a member of SCCA for going on 40 years now....served on CalClub Comp Commitee for many years. I have driven and won races and championships and track records in a number of classes, as recently as 5 years ago. I have also built 6 cars from the ground up, although obviously all simpler than a PC 10. I spent a number of years building high-tech concept vehicles for GM, including the worlds first collision avoidance vehicle back in 95, and did all the test driving, when gods knows it didn't work. I drove an 85 March at Willow Springs while testing a HUD in a helmet that won the Schwitzer Award at Indy that year....high speed was required. I just did 200mph in the Mojave Mile event in my Ford GT. I also hold an advanced degree in physics. And, I'm now retired with lots of time and money.

Having said all of that this car kind of fell in my lap. It was not being cared for where it was at, and my initial thought was just to give it a respectful home. And I would just clean it a bit and maybe restore some of the simpler systems. However, I have now found so many good resources, including here, that I plan to make a hard effort at getting it running again, and yeah, driving it at some historic event, maybe Indy.

Thanks for your concern, I can handle it.....I'm a bit beyond FFs.....

[provamo]

go for it man!!! indy would be cool!!!

[Pop Chevy]

No, Indy IS cool ! It's too late to enter, but you could bring it out to show it. There is
show associated with the event and we would love to see it.

[the Wizard]

I was thinking more like next year for Indy, although I'd be happy to show the vehicle to anyone. But Indy is a long tow just for a static event....I'm in Los Angeles.

[Pop Chevy]

Sorry, didn't catch your location. How about posting a pic ?

[the Wizard]

Of course....let me see if I can figure that out. You host them elsewhere and just put the link here?

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/indy1.jpg
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/indy2.jpg
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/indy3.jpg

If that worked, the first pic shows a 6'2" 230 lb dude, me, can fit in the car, with Otis Chandler's custom made center top body section.

The second is my fav pic of Rick in the car....small guy body section with pretty wind screen, but not sure which chassis number that is.

And the third, as improbable as it seems, this is a friend of mine in chassis number 010 at Indy last year....so I know it can be done!

[Pop Chevy]

NIICE !!

[ZEKESPEED]

http://www.apracing.com/products/rac...air_jacks.aspx

[indy88]

Just looking at the car, looks like it has been sitting along time. If you start that engine and run that car, it will break valve springs and the motor will be destroyed. That engine has to be rebuilt before ran, or it can go back into a museum.
Valve spring technology was not what it is today, valves springs in this era compressed for years are now junk. We had Cosworths blowup after only siting 4 or 5 months in this era of Indycars, always was valve spring failure.

[the Wizard]

Yeah, 20 years. A number of people have told me the same thing. I'm wondering if I could pull the heads and just do the valve springs, and whatever else? This engine will never do more than 100 laps in the rest of its life. Think that might be good enough?

[DanW]

Yeah, 20 years. A number of people have told me the same thing. I'm wondering if I could pull the heads and just do the valve springs, and whatever else? This engine will never do more than 100 laps in the rest of its life. Think that might be good enough?

Umm, I would suggest a teardown and inspection. Check the condition of everything to give yourself a level of confidence before taking it out. If everything is good, its just a set of valve springs, a set of gaskets, a fresh dry sump tank of oil. Better than locking it up at the exit of T4 and find the wall backwards.

"You don't know where its been."

[the Wizard]

Yes, good advice, I agree with you both......

[indy88]

Looking at your Penske we would not run it without a complete teardown to inspect all components, even at 100mph. A lot of older Indycars are more show cars than racecars. Many times assembled with suspect or damaged parts. We have several Penskes in the shop right now, that were all ran more recently than yours and we would not run them at speed without teardown and inspection. These cars are too valuable and parts for Penske Indycars are the most difficult to find of all Indycars, almost impossible. Very few built and very few spares floating around. Bernie King will not have a windscreen, you will have to have one produced, you are correct in that they do not want to be found , unless you have an ex-Penske car they want.

[Jerry B.]

the Wizard
Member

check your e-mail

JB

[the Wizard]

Well this isn't a show car. It was the car Otis Chandler bought and he ran it a bit, even had a center body piece made to fit his size. And then he put it away, and stuff happened, and it just never got run again. But, I would not be opposed to going through the whole engine. I just need to figure out the how and the who and the when etc.....the plan. I have time, and money, and some decent mechanical skills, but I still feel like I have so many questions to know how to begin. And I'm trying not to overwhelm here with questions.....but I certainly appreciate the info so far. For instance, the contact to Judy who is making the new windshield.

In what city is your shop? You didn't make it clear just who you are? Ahhh, I just saw you are in Indy.

It sounds like you're saying it would be inappropriate to contact Bernie about anything? I only asked because it was suggested here....

[indy88]

Just south of Indianapolis. Bernie's priority is Roger Penske's cars, they do not sell parts, just restore Penske's cars. Not easy to get to on purpose. We have a few parts for your car, no wind screens, there are a lot of people that can make you a new one.
Do you know if your engine was pickled after it was last ran, real important on alcohol fuel cars. If not your engine and fuel system are probably in real trouble.

[the Wizard]

Otis was very rich, and owned the LA Times, and an automotive museum in Oxnard, where he kept this car at times. I'm gonna assume he had a crew and knew what he was doing, and, that the engine was pickled.....but obviously I do not know this for sure.

I did notice one odd thing....there are no wing angle adjusters for the front wing? That rod just sort of sits on the horizontal surface in the nose. I guess I can make these things, but would you have anything like that? And I'm looking for the proper rearview mirrors.

I'm getting some brake fluid leak up front....appears to be coming from the clutch master cylinder.

But obviously I need to understand whether I'm likely to ever get the engine going or not.....that kind of sets the tone for the rest of the project.

What is the main speciality of your shop? I used to work for Delce, now Delphi, so I was back there all the time!

[indy88]

I knew his son Mike Chandler when he raced at Indy in the early eighties.
Is your Penske chassis number 005?

[the Wizard]

Yes it is.....I bought it from the guy that bought it from Otis. I didn't even know he had a son that raced....wow.....

[Charles Warner]

If you "bought it from a guy who got it from a guy. . ." Then every bit of the car is suspect. The engine and gearbox will need complete rebuilding as well as all other systems. If you assume anything is still good you are dancing with the devil.

[the Wizard]

Well I didn't mean to make it sound that shady....lol...but yeah, I assume you're right. The guy I got it from has become a friend already...very straightforward and honest. He never touched it. So, I'm highly confident it sits in my garage as Otis pulled it off the track the last time, but yep, that was 20 years ago. I'm willing to do what's necessary and proper...but I also want to be smart about this, and not throw a ton of money into a project that can't be completed. But I don't mind paying $$$s for results.

I did find a local expert and hopefully within the next couple weeks he'll visit the car and take a look. I hope his visit will generate a plan. It may be just do cosmetic work and have it as a nice show piece. Or it could be to go for it, and make the damn thing run. We'll see what he thinks.

If this car ends up a show piece then I'm still in the market for a running Indy Car that accommodates a large driver. I've been looking for over a decade...it's not easy.

[Pop Chevy]

I thought the mid 90's Lola's were bigger inside, No?

[the Wizard]

I just had a deal fall through on a 96 Lola, with 97/98 bodywork. I fit, very snugly, but it was possible. The 85 March I drove was very small, two frame rails I couldn't get my hips to go in between. I have been told many of the IRL cars were bigger inside. That's about all I know. The owner of the Lola did seem to believe that late 90s Lola's were more roomy than most. Chuck Haines has a 2000 Dallara he's pushing, and says it will definitely fit.