100sf 100% unleaded avgas

[dsmithwc04]

So just found this on a google search for a race fuel source for my FE that isn't $7+ a gallon.

Looks life Swift Fuels has a new type of AVGAS that is 100 octane and is 100% unleaded! I sent in a question to see if it is also ethanol free which would be fantastic.

Here is a link

http://swiftfuels.com/fuel/unleaded-...00sf-benefits/

Site says Lafayette, IN (hour and a half from me) but not sure if there are any more locations or other sources of this fuel.

[Tifosi]

I doubt that an aviation fuel would contain a water soluble component.

[Laird]

The EPA has been trying to ban 100LL for aircraft for years. There is a huge push to find a suitable subistute. I'm not sure anything has been found to be a completely interchangable solution. The first one who does stands to gain a bunch of market share.

I'd be careful about what you read on the website and marketing materials. I think it's still smoke and mirrors at this point. I'm not even sure you can buy the stuff and I think it's still in the trial stage at this point.

Even when it IS available, I'm not switching fuels in my airplane and Pinto until I absolutely HAVE too. Fortunately I have access to the pumps. It's getting tougher to find access to as homeland security requires airports to have fences and keep everyone non-essencial out.

I think I paid $6.45/gal the other to fuel up the plane. That WAY better than the last time I bought racing gas at the pumps. I think that was close to $11/gal.

So just found this on a google search for a race fuel source for my FE that isn't $7+ a gallon.

Looks life Swift Fuels has a new type of AVGAS that is 100 octane and is 100% unleaded! I sent in a question to see if it is also ethanol free which would be fantastic.

Here is a link

http://swiftfuels.com/fuel/unleaded-...00sf-benefits/

Site says Lafayette, IN (hour and a half from me) but not sure if there are any more locations or other sources of this fuel.

[dsmithwc04]

I doubt that an aviation fuel would contain a water soluble component.

I agree but that's only because we are using common sense which doesn't apply to most federal regulations. The fact that we have ethanol in ANY fuel is ludicrous. Ethanol in aviation fuel would obviously be dangerous but I'm sure it would save us from polluting the Earth according to EPA "Experts"... /rant

[dsmithwc04]

The EPA has been trying to ban 100LL for aircraft for years. There is a huge push to find a suitable subistute. I'm not sure anything has been found to be a completely interchangable solution. The first one who does stands to gain a bunch of market share.

I'd be careful about what you read on the website and marketing materials. I think it's still smoke and mirrors at this point. I'm not even sure you can buy the stuff and I think it's still in the trial stage at this point.

Even when it IS available, I'm not switching fuels in my airplane and Pinto until I absolutely HAVE too. Fortunately I have access to the pumps. It's getting tougher to find access to as homeland security requires airports to have fences and keep everyone non-essencial out.

I think I paid $6.45/gal the other to fuel up the plane. That WAY better than the last time I bought racing gas at the pumps. I think that was close to $11/gal.

Looks like your right. It doesn't appear to be available right now. It is a little premature to call it smoke and mirrors at this point don't ya think?

From the website:

ONLY UNLEADED 100+ OCTANE AVGAS APPROVED BY ASTM (D7719)
In March 2011, Swift Fuels, LLC became the first and only unleaded, high-octane avgas to have an ASTM Test Specification approved for avgas. Our 100SF fuel test specification is now defined as ASTM D7719. Transitioning ASTM D7719 to a Production Specification is being balloted by our 100+ member ASTM task force in the next 60-90 days.

COMMERCIAL VIABILITY ON GLOBAL SCALE
Swift Fuels, LLC is working with leading industry partners in the coming months to establish a framework to allow our 100SF product to be commercially viable and available in key markets. While producing low-cost aviation gasoline represents a major challenge for our stakeholders, we are making significant strides in our pilot production techniques that we believe could lead to promising and viable commercial outcomes that leverage key parts of the existing infrastructure of the downstream industrial supply chain on a global scale. As new data comes available from our proprietary production results, we will disclose how our production process can be rapidly scaled-up to meet consumer demands.

EDIT: I'm curious if this operation is somehow connected to the Purdue Research Park at Purdue University. I remember as a student learning that we had one of the premier incubators in the country for the commercialization of innovative products and ideas. I myself work with a few people connected to the Purdue Research Park and it is such a fantastic foundation.

[dsmithwc04]

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/A...-unleaded.aspx

Looks like Shell is trying to get into the business too. Swift beat them to it by a few years but I wouldn't doubt Shell flexes their muscle and beats Swifts production agenda.

So, looks like this is definitely not smoke and mirrors. Hopefully this will give us in the airplanes with upside down wings and 4 wheels a good source of race gas?

[Matt Clark]

I see with my own eyes at work what the aviation fuel testing is doing. So far nothing has been found to replace AvGas that works the same. MoGas can be used, but power is nowhere near where it needs to be. We'll see where this stuff falls in, but it seems nothing is able to duplicate 100LL AvGas as of now. I'm not optimistic for it.

[mikey]

ummm.. if you're not running a spec fuel for a race series, then just pour 93 octane no ethanol in it and you're fine. The FE is a production Mazda 6 motor (also used in Isuzu trucks) and the tune in the MBE is not high strung. It'll run pump gas all year long. the no ethanol is more for the benefit of your fuel cell than the motor.

[Skip Weld]

A couple of comments on the unleaded aviation fuel. !00 octane aviation fuel is not the same as auto fuel. The testing for octane is very different so the numbers are not at all comparable. I have used avgas in every race car I ever had and my lawn equipment in the fall so the carbs won't get buggered up over the long winter we have in Florida. It is perhaps the "cleanest" gas I know of, it has to be for aircraft carburetors.

There is one fuel that has been flying for about 4 years now. It is a drop in replacement, made from normal refinery products that any refiner can produce. It is produced by GAMI in Oklahoma and is not for sale to the public. They are not going the ASTM route, they have a different idea of how to certify a fuel for aviation and it is progressing along nicely now.
The reason I know about it is I work for them a couple of weeks during the year teaching engine management to pilots at the airshows like Oshkosh.

I also feel very certain that anyone that likes race cars would like Oshkosh even though it is about airplanes. Just be prepared to walk a bit, it takes days to see it all.
Skip Weld
95 and 01 Van Diemen FC, 1964 S-35 bonanza TNIO550-B
I will be in the booth for GAMI at Sun N Fun in April.

[dsmithwc04]

ummm.. if you're not running a spec fuel for a race series, then just pour 93 octane no ethanol in it and you're fine. The FE is a production Mazda 6 motor (also used in Isuzu trucks) and the tune in the MBE is not high strung. It'll run pump gas all year long. the no ethanol is more for the benefit of your fuel cell than the motor.

Question, regardless of what fuel we are using is it reasonable practice to just assure we are staying below 14.7? I will be logging and monitoring my A/F through my CDS system and just want to know where I should try to be to keep the engine safe. Fro my understanding, SCCA Enterprises dynos at around 12.2. Does the ratio need to be tuned to stay just below 14.7 (Stoich) regardless of what fuel is used or does the target number change depending on what fuel is being used?

I'm wondering if I can just tune to run rich around perhaps 13:1 regardless of what fuel I'm using (within reason) I should be pretty safe correct? Sure, I might lose a couple horse power but I also won't be replacing the motor as often as I would if I was running closer to 14.7 or even perhaps a little higher.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Can anyone explain why when I was at button willow in February, 100 was $10+ and 110 was $9.50?

I got 110 for my pinto. I've never heard more octain was bad (maybe I will now)...

[mousecatcher]

how do you tune the FE? you are limited to fuel pressure adjustment.

[dsmithwc04]

how do you tune the FE? you are limited to fuel pressure adjustment.

Yes, I typed "tune" in place of "adjusting fuel pressure on the pressure regulator". Does the fuel pressure not affect the A/F ?


Another question, if Swift were to sell a base gasoline with no additive package would I be fien without them? Are the lifespans of the 2.3L motors different when using a base gasoline with no additives vs buying a branded gasoline like BP with the "Invigorate" additive package? From what I have heard BP adds the Invigorate additive at 350ppm in the 87 and 89 octane and at 550 ppm in the 93 octane. What exactly is in this additive package and should I be worried that the base gas (100 octane AVGAS which is about 113 auto octane) does not have any additive package. Wondering if additives could be used to allow the fuel to burn cleaner or if that is even a problem since we are running such high RPM's on the track.

[DaveW]

Can anyone explain why when I was at button willow in February, 100 was $10+ and 110 was $9.50?

I got 110 for my pinto. I've never heard more octain was bad (maybe I will now)...

It is fairly well known that higher octane gasoline usually burns slower and at a slightly lower temperature than lower octane fuel. So, normally, if you don't need the higher octane to prevent detonation (pre-ignition), you are giving away HP.

Of course, there are exceptions to this depending on the fuel's chemistry. YMMV

[dsmithwc04]

It is fairly well known that higher octane gasoline usually burns slower and at a slightly lower temperature than lower octane fuel. So, normally, if you don't need the higher octane to prevent detonation (pre-ignition), you are giving away HP.

Of course, there are exceptions to this depending on the fuel's chemistry. YMMV

Generally you want a little higher octane if it has ethanol. Honestly, 93 E0 would probably be sufficient if you can find it...

[Hardingfv32]

Generally you want a little higher octane if it has ethanol.

Why? Shouldn't a fuel meet its stated octane specification regardless of the constituents being used?

Brian

[dsmithwc04]

Why? Shouldn't a fuel meet its stated octane specification regardless of the constituents being used?

Brian

It was mentioned in another thread that the ethanol in pump fuel usually has some water in it from problems such as condensation in the tanks. Although ethanol technically raises the octane of the fuel due to it needing higher pressures to burn you might try using a higher overall rated octane to combat the moisture you will likely find in the gas at the pump. I can not say that this is a fact only that a couple octane points can't really hurt assuming your using somewhere in the range of 93-100 octane (RON rating system)

[Marshall Mauney]

Yes, I typed "tune" in place of "adjusting fuel pressure on the pressure regulator". Does the fuel pressure not affect the A/F ?

Yes, it does, but only to a point. The range of our FP regulators and efficiency of the injectors don't cover the full range of fuels available.

I have had some of my best results with a street-legal fuel that has some ethanol. It allows you to run the FE engine a bit richer, which makes better use of the injectors we run (JMO, YMMV).

Are the lifespans of the 2.3L motors different when using a base gasoline with no additives vs buying a branded gasoline like BP with the "Invigorate" additive package?

Well, you might seem some difference when you hit the 50,000 mile point. In practical terms, the only thing that's going to impact your FE's engine life is missed shifts or running too lean.

I would strongly suggest that you pose this question in the FE section. We've all dealt with this, with varying degrees of success. These engines are not the same as carbureted Pinto motors, and a mistake in setting the FP that runs you too lean can cost you an engine (ask me how I know).

To tell the truth, until and unless you're within a couple of tenths of pole position at Road America, you'll see no difference between fuels (and maybe not even then). Run premium pump gas until then, and just make sure you're leaning on the rich side of "optimum".

[BeerBudgetRacing]

It is fairly well known that higher octane gasoline usually burns slower and at a slightly lower temperature than lower octane fuel. So, normally, if you don't need the higher octane to prevent detonation (pre-ignition), you are giving away HP.

Of course, there are exceptions to this depending on the fuel's chemistry. YMMV

Learn sumpin new. Knew it burned cooler. Didn't know it burned slower....

100 it is....

[mikey]

with regards to a/f ratio, if you're running a wideband O2, just forget about all that 14.7:1 or 13:1 or 12.2:1 etc.. that ratio involves a conversion factor that varies depending on several things, not the least of which is the gas formulation itself.

the wideband will output 1.00 as stoich. below 1.00 you're on the rich side and above it you're on the lean side. (incidentally, same for the ratio numbers, 12.2:1 is richer than 13.0:1).

I'm not sure what the ideal spot is on FE. On PFM it is 0.89 for the target at WOT. Reality for me is more like 0.92 with Sunoco 260 GTX and the 4% enrichment fuel setting. Get a wideband sensor and take the reading straight without trying to convert it.


on the topic of octane rating - concur with others. run the lowest octane you can without detonation. lower octane has higher energy density and burns faster.

[dsmithwc04]

with regards to a/f ratio, if you're running a wideband O2, just forget about all that 14.7:1 or 13:1 or 12.2:1 etc.. that ratio involves a conversion factor that varies depending on several things, not the least of which is the gas formulation itself.

the wideband will output 1.00 as stoich. below 1.00 you're on the rich side and above it you're on the lean side. (incidentally, same for the ratio numbers, 12.2:1 is richer than 13.0:1).

I'm not sure what the ideal spot is on FE. On PFM it is 0.89 for the target at WOT. Reality for me is more like 0.92 with Sunoco 260 GTX and the 4% enrichment fuel setting. Get a wideband sensor and take the reading straight without trying to convert it.


on the topic of octane rating - concur with others. run the lowest octane you can without detonation. lower octane has higher energy density and burns faster.

I will be running the CDS wideband 02 sensor (WBAF-2) I've been recommended by a CSR to run 12.5:1 at WOT to play it safe. Also, recommended to run 91 octane ethanol free. Surprised that such a low octane was recommended but I'm sure he would know what runs safely in these things with his experience. So far I've been recommended Sunoco 260 GTX, 93 with 10% Ethanol, and 91 Ethanol free. Holy moly.