FSV type 4 127v motor

[cny317]

I was looking for any information on the type 4 127v 1600cc motors used in the early super vees. As far as I can tell the only difference from the 1.7 was a smaller piston. does anyon have any insight?

thanks

steve k

[Rick Kirchner]

Steve Demeter will probably chime in here as well. To build a type IV SV motor you take a 1.8 for the heads, block and crank, and couple it with a special set of 1600 jugs and pistons that were supplied by Volkswagon Industrial Engines. The 1600 parts are unobtainium, as VW never produced a 1600 Type IV for a production car. You can have pistons made, but good luck with the jugs.

Most vintage clubs now allow AC SV to run a 2L. Not that there's any shortage of 1.7/1.8 parts out there, but you do need to do some digging. Most of the easy to find parts are for the 2L and a lot of the 1.7/1.8 cranks were offset ground to produce a 2L crank.

The dry sump pump can be tough to find as well.

The other component that's no longer readily available are prepped carbs. Back in the day the cars used a dry-sumped Solex 40-P11 off of Porsche 356/912. These had a bunch of internal work done to the float bowls and as a whole was a pretty complex system. I've never seen one or seen a sketch of the mods. Most guys now just run Weber 40IDFs. I used the 40P-11s for two seasons and what a royal PITA. Bought the Webers from Redline, they asked me about five questions, set them up with emulsion tubes and jets, and they worked perfectly right out of the box.

The guys that do the most Type IV work now are FAT performance in Orange County and Jake Raby in Georgia. They both build buggy motors and stuff for E-production 914s.

[cny317]

Thanks for the info RIck. I got the short block with a bunch of other parts(1.7 heads, some cranks, cylinders and a whole 1.8 motor) looks like i may have the cylinders, they measure bout 87.8 but no matching pistons to be found. any idea who might manufacture that size pistons? It came with weber 40's, my next question would be the cam. the one in the short block had: isky vp1213 x72c on it. any ideas? when I looked on the monoposto rules site It looked like they wanted i think 32 and 39 for valve size whic i thought was 1.7heads.
a couple people i talked to said that most vintage clubs are pretty libral about motor size in that they would allow 1.7 and maybey bigger heads. the oil pump that was on there had 2 circuits on it. Im assuming one for the dry sump and one for the filter and cooler. Im use to type 1 FV full flow motors, never saw one like this.

thanks again Steve K

[Steve Demeter]

Hi,

Yes you have the 1600 jugs.

Pistons to fit them are unobtanium probably. Check out the guy who bought my Lola, look on the Lola registry. (chassis # was HU-93 IIRC). There is a link to it somewhere on Apex. A complete Bertil 1600 motor went with it. The dry sump pump was made by SCAT and Bertil and John Zeitler made one that used two sets of regular VW rotors. But they might be almost impossible to find.

I do know that Arias or Venolia made a bunch of 1700 pistons.

The jugs you have can be bored out to 90mm to make 1700 jugs.

Find someone who builds 914-4 motors. They should be able to help source parts.

Also CB performance on the west coast had a lot of stuff for Type Iv motors. They still have (at lleast 6 or so years ago) the master for the last cam grind that Bertil developed. They can make a very nice cam for a good price.

[Rick Kirchner]

I had Venolia make some 1700 pistons for me but they sucked. The 1600s were Mahles. I have a set that are worn, but could be copied by CP. Shoulda done that......

The last dry sump pump I bought was the CB performance unit.

[cny317]

Thanks for the info Guys....My plan was to use standard 1.7 p/c if I cant find the 1600s. Rick, who is CP? and do You have contact info? if they can copy Your 1600s maybey we can help each other out. I attached pis of the oil pump...the motor came out of a Zeitler. What chassis dou You guys run??

thanks again

steve K

[Charlie Schmidt]

I had an Autocraft pump on one of my engines.

[Rick Kirchner]

CB Performance is also known as Claude's Buggies. Buy a copy of Hot VWs magazine for all of the current suppliers.

[Purple Frog]

I am now working with a Jake Raby built engine in my shop. 2.3 liter dynoed at 191 hp. But, if one thought it was expensive to build up a pinto... hang on to your checkbox when you approach a VW boxer. $$$$

[Rick Kirchner]

Especially from Mr. Raby. There are few TY IV guys around and he can pretty much charge what he wants.

The bottom end is stout as hell, but it takes a lot of attention to detail and non-stock parts to keep the top on top and the valves inside.

Did you have the six-stud mods done? Roller cam and lifters?

At Pahrump I ran against an older Lola FSV with a 2L and with the torque and about 200 less pounds I had to work my butt off to get around him. I had a mechanical grip advantage that worked well once I got around, but from behind he could just motor away and the short straights didn't play to my aero advantage. We had about the same HP.

[cny317]

No mods done...was plannin on stock 1.7(unless I can 1.6 pistons) and a carb cam. accordin to monoposto rules looked like stock heads etc...although ive heard there pretty lax with with motor u use.

[Rick Kirchner]

the rules back in the day were pretty wide open. Valve size was controlled, but you could do any porting you wanted. The heads I had had been flycut until the first cooling fin was essentially gone. Carbs were open with only a venturi restriction. I believe the clutch had to be stock but the flywheel could be lightened.

I don't think the five and six stud mods existed back then, so I don't think the rules excluded stuff like that.

[dave t]

I'm new to the site and it will not let me send a message. So on Wednesday I will post pics of the P&C that I picked up at a show to sell. Sorry for the confusion if cny317 can send me a message I will send my ph# Thanks Dave T. New member

[dave t]

here