I think Michael Crowe has a seat available.Originally Posted by ghickman
I think Michael Crowe has a seat available.
Ciao,
Joel
Piper DF-5 F1000
Jeremy does not believe in artificial shifting so he is shifting manually, which may explain differences in shifting characteristics.
It makes his competitiveness that much more impressive.
That half the winged Formula group went home before Sunday's race would seem to indicate what they thought of the groupings.
Last edited by problemchild; 03.24.15 at 3:15 PM.
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
No sense in letting logic get in the way of a good rant, but if they REALLY objected to the groupings (which included the same classes they run with a 80% of the Majors races), why did they sign up in the first place?
I'm not saying giving FB their own group for all sessions was a good idea and I've (again) expressed those thoughts to the PTB in Atlanta Region, but it had much less impact on attendance than I thought it would.
Butch Kummer
2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion
Butch to be fair to Greg's post, I for one decided after the Saturday race that it was not worth racing Sunday in that same run group and I know of a few others who did as well. That was before I saw the forecast.
Steve Bamford
Jeremy has always been a great driver. He beat us in the 2007 ARRC. He was P1 and we were P2. I don't recall for sure, but I think he won the 2008 ARRC too? Great guy. In 2008 we were P3 behind a legend; Coop!
Congrats to everyone that raced last weekend! I also congratulate Mike B for continually coming up with new ideas, sponsors, and long time support & creativity. All the FB drivers should be proud of last weekend - good show! The videos and photos are awesome, thanks for posting them.
Jeremy does not believe in artificial shifting so he is shifting manually, which may explain differences in shifting characteristics.
It makes his competitiveness that much more impressive.
That half the winged Formula group went home before Sunday's race would seem to indicate what they thought of the groupings.
Last edited by billwald; 03.24.15 at 8:48 PM.
The variety of FB cars was pretty cool. The front bulkhead on the Mayer car was really something cool to check out. Glenn in the Beauchamp-mobile had the most wiggly rear wing all weekend. Thought it might fall off at some points. Everyone was commenting on it in turn 1. Saw Glenn at registration and never found him the rest of the weekend sadly. The announcer continually saying the cars were seeing 180mph down the back straight was intriguing. A bummer that there were multiple double yellows in the group on Sunday.
I think the single race group for FB issue has been beaten to death. And with 11 cars showing up on grid I think that is also the last we will see of it at an SCCA Major and any further Atlanta race.
I think the biggest problem most people had with it was the setting of a precedent where a class, within a major, can 'buy' their own run group. And the group had one of the prime time slots on top of it.
FWIW in the FF/F5/FV group there was some pretty fun racing to watch. The Mygale pair and even moreso the Spectrum pair running nose to tail were incredibly fun to watch. The Spectrum guys did it pretty much the entire weekend. Going through turn 1 at speed no more than 6 feet apart, sparks coming of the skid plates, lap after lap was impressive. I hope someone got some good pictures of it.
To be clear, no one has anything against the FB guys & good on Mike for getting them their own grid. The people who allowed it to happen on the other hand is another issue altogether.
As the post above says, with only 11 cars turning up for this there is likely little chance it will happen again. It really is a shame there were not more FB's there as this was the chance to show a reason to have a single class run group. The attendance of the race hurts all classes in trying to prove we should have our own run groups never mind the BS group 8 participated in.
The standing start was well attended with many people leaving after a lap and the black flag. Biggest reason in my opinion is it is not typical to see a standing start so of course there were lots of people watching.
Steve Bamford
Bill, you are thinking of Justin Pritchard who won the ARRC in 07 and 08 in the Piper, now owned by Joel Haas.
Jeremy Hill drives a self-converted Van Dieman, RF01 I believe.
Both cars are however RED
Sux gettin' old, Bro - I feel ya!
You are right. Pritchard was awesome and I remember meeting Sven Piper there and in awe of the man. Hill is still good..lol. I was thinking maybe Dixon and Kasamets were in the mix too. Hey, that was a long time ago..
I still say Great job Mike B. What's next; St. Pete Grand Prix, Sebring 12H?
Last edited by billwald; 03.24.15 at 10:05 PM.
manual shifting
Jeremy does not believe in artificial shifting so he is shifting manually, which may explain differences in shifting characteristics.
It makes his competitiveness that much more impressive.
That half the winged Formula group went home before Sunday's race would seem to indicate what they thought of the groupings.
Mayer was using a manual bump shifter, as do all the JDR cars. It does have an electronic upshift cut and blipper, while Jeremy uses a paddle?cable shift and matching cable blipper. the competition for the win (JRO and Jason Bell) both have Geartronics shifting systems......so yes, it does show how good Jeremy and Alex really are.
Jerry
Mayer car front bulkhead
The front bulkihead on Mayers car is one of several unique features of the JDR F1000 he is driving. The bulkhead and unusual side pod configuration are what attract the most attention. Some other features are less obvious, but equally important to the overall package.
Jerry
The separate run group standing start at the Atlanta SCCA Major was not a precedent. We had one at the SCCA Major in Portland last year and we even had less cars. Nobody complained, moaned, or whined about it either (at least I never heard anything). In fact we were even invited back to do it again this year. Too bad other things stood in the way of that.
Well, no one may have complained, but this is why I don't compete anymore. The SCCA makes random decisions without any thought as to whether it is fair or makes any sense. Does it make any sense to anyone why a group with 11 cars would get their own run group? Is it fair to the other groups with 11 or more cars? There were 11 FV's at Road Atlanta. Why did they not get their own group? Because they weren't willing or didn't volunteer to pay an extra $200 for it? Why choose one group over another? Because they put on a "good show"? Are we catering to the spectators now?
I don't race anymore because SCCA racing is not worth the fun vs. expense anymore. Entry fees go up and up. Track time goes down. Having 8 groups may have "only" affected the big winged cars, but in reality, it affected everyone. 8 groups reduces the amount of track time. You can argue any way you want, but it's a reality.
Again, I'm not bashing FB. I love all open wheeled cars. I just think we're walking a slippery slope when one class is favored over another.
.
Last edited by glenn cooper; 03.25.15 at 8:50 PM.
Unfortunately, that's about the response I expected to get... Don't know why I'd expect anything more.
You forgot one
We also had a standing start at the Seattle Majors last year, and they invited us back to do it again.
The only way the SCCA is going to pull in new blood into the sport is by adding some cool factor. Maybe this is a good way to do it.
I can tell you to bring young talent to the club it needs some sizzle.....and I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings agitator but FB has the sizzle.
Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering Inc
FB #76
I hate to bring actual data into this, but what happened at Road Atlanta this year was distinctly different than what happened at Portland in 2014. At Portland the FB cars qualified and raced with the other winged cars on Friday and Saturday, then raced by themselves (with the standing start) only on Sunday. There were 37 cars in the entire winged group, six of which were FB cars.
Edit: I realized Gary was talking about Seattle, not Portland. There the FB cars practiced with the other winged cars, then had a stand-alone qualifier and their own race with a standing start that afternoon, qualified and raced with the winged cars on Sunday, then were done while everyone else raced on Monday. There were also a total of 26 cars in the winged group, 7 of which were FB's. Again, much different than what happened at Road Atlanta last weekend.
In 2014 (and with a LOT of encouragement by the Director of Club Racing) Road Atlanta and a few other Majors went to eight run groups with three groups dedicated to open-wheel cars (small, medium, and large). At Road Atlanta last year there were 31 cars in F5/FF/FV, 24 in FC/FE/FM/P2, and 31 in FA/FB/P1 (8 in FB).
In planning for 2015 Mike B asked the Atlanta Region management what it would take for FB to get their own run group and a deal was struck. If last year's Director of Club Racing (or anyone that knows anything about organizing a race weekend) was still employed by SCCA I suspect this year's schedule would never have been approved for all the reasons stated, but primarily because it sets a bad precedent. Even though he no longer has any influence over things last year's Director of Club Racing heard about the deal and suggested a compromise: have the F1000 cars do all qualifiers and Sunday's race with the FA & P1 cars (with the option of a split start on Sunday) and give them a stand-alone race (with a standing start) on Saturday when the schedule was not so tight. Perhaps the PTB in Atlanta Region did not understand that proposal, but it reportedly was never considered and FB was given their own group for all sessions.
- Did that hurt attendance at this year's event? I believe it did.
- Were drivers in other groups complaining about the arrangement even though it did not affect them directly? Most definitely.
- Will Atlanta (or any other region) be allowed to give an 11-car class their own run group for all sessions at a 200+ car event ever again? No telling, but hopefully they will not.
- Would the compromise proposed by the former Director of Club Racing have allowed us to incorporate the spectacle of a standing start (the aforementioned "cool factor") with minimal impact on the other run groups? Again, I believe it would have.
- Is there anyone left in Topeka experienced enough to recognize this is a problem and take the appropriate steps to mediate a compromise in the future? No.
But then I'm just a civilian, so WTF do *I* know?
Last edited by GT1Vette; 03.25.15 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Added 2014 Seattle numbers - my bad.
Butch Kummer
2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion
No open wheel cars at the Sebring 12 hour last weekend. When Pro F Mazda pulled out it left a gap. I have to think the fans would have loved it. So Mike B..........
And a big congrats to Alex Mayer for two wins last weekend! Looks like a real contender in Daytona!
Last edited by billwald; 03.25.15 at 11:58 PM.
Why didn't they run B-Spec / STL / STU / T2 / T3, instead of a 2 hour PDX? Wouldn't that make room for a third wings group?
Are those cars really that loud
Last edited by billwald; 03.26.15 at 12:24 AM.
Local ordinance says "no race engines" from 10-noon on Sunday. While there is no decibel requirement, occasionally a street car will be asked to leave the PDX sessions so while the B-Spec cars are probably okay, unmuffled STL/STU/T2/T3 cars ARE that loud.Why didn't they run B-Spec / STL / STU / T2 / T3, instead of a 2 hour PDX? Wouldn't that make room for a third wings group?
Are those cars really that loud
Butch Kummer
2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion
Well James, I did take my comment down, as I didn't want to be known as an "agitator", but seein's how you brought it back from the dead...
As mentioned before, I don't think we'll see much/any of this in the future. but we were willing to put up real dollars to have this happen. so to say we were "favored" over another class is not quite the whole story.
It can perhaps even be said that by virtue of our cash infusion to the Atl region, the event was even made possible - maybe the FB add'l monies were used for paying for cornerworkers? There was an e/m sent out that volunteers were needed.
This "almost" reminds me of the comments waaaaay back in the Geartronics debate, where folks who don't even run an F1000, or at all, were commenting so vigorously.
I said "almost"...
Glenn, you win.
I'll say this: I have been around SCCA racing my entire life. I was in the womb when my mom went to driver's school in the mid-60's. My family has raced at every level, in several classes from autocross, solo I, Regionals, Nationals, and Pro Series. We've built a couple dozen cars, worked corners, T&S, registration, and taught at driver's schools. In the past, numbers dictated whether your run group was one class or many. In my opinion, that is the only fair way to do it. When FV numbers went down, their independent run group disappeared. As did, FF. It sucks, but it is the fair thing to do. When $$ dictate things, then I'm gonna voice my opinion. While I still have a car, I choose not to race it, and you are right; that is a decision. I still support one of our cars as often as I can and still care about the club and EVERY driver's opportunity to enjoy it.
BTW, I've seen thousands of spectators at SCCA events...they just weren't in this century. When my dad won the Runoffs, there were so many spectators that he couldn't get down pit lane after the cool down lap. That was a different era. I doubt that any driver cares a bit about how many people are there to spectate. I don't think the club is every going to generate enough money for it to trickle down to the AMATEUR drivers. When I was driving, I just wanted as much track time as I could get and as many competitors as would show up. I didn't care who was there to watch.
I've never bashed FB. I never bashed anyone in particular. If FB could generate that 20+ car field, and do it consistently, then I'm all for y'all having your own group. I think the cars are awesome to look at, listen to, and watch race. I'm ALL for its success. And as mentioned before, yes, they do sizzle. I don't deny any of that.
I'm not interested in debating back and forth about every little detail. I've given my opinion in the least offensive way I know possible, and just don't have the time to argue something I'm not even directly involved in. I wish FB all the best.
Marketing 101
Marketing 101 = Todays Spectator Tomorrows Racer.
You gotta have some sizzle to bring in the spectators that become tomorrows club racer, you grow your own this way.
Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering Inc
FB #76
This is my 48th straight year as a member of the SCCA. I would not have done this if I did not have a love for racing and the SCCA. That said it is my opinion that the club is in trouble. The issues are many and I do not intend to start a discussion here.
As you may know I am a very big fan of F1000 and my hope is that it will continue to grow. The reality is that there is no other class that gives you the bang for your $$$. You simply cannot go faster for for less $$$.
Now all the above is simply my take on things but we all need to remember that the SCCA is a members club and as much as I love F1000 it is simply not fair that a race with 11 entrants gets to take track time and race quality time away from other MEMBERS of the SCCA.
My apologies to my many F1000 friends but F1000 needs to grow more so that there are at least 20 or 25 entrants to allow them to have their own race group. I hope that that day will come within a couple of years and when it does F1000 with be the biggest baddest open wheel class in the SCCA.
The way to make this class grow it to manage the costs. We must do everything we can to control costs and to reduce the costs to race.
STANDING STARTS RULE!
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
FACTS
I feel bad for the guys in group 8 and perhaps fb should not have been given its own group without a min of 15 cars but the fact is we had more cars than any other class is group 8....just my 2 cents! Regards, jeremy
Last edited by JEREMY HILL; 03.27.15 at 9:39 AM. Reason: OOPS
Group 7 right wings and things? Group 2 was SM.
Group 8 was the big & medium bore wings & things.
Steve Bamford
More importantly where is all the incar! We got a little teaser of the standing start, but I need more than 90 seconds.
F1000! Try it! You will be hooked!
I was in Group 8. No whining here. Our split group race starts helped. 46 cars in the Q's was busy but everyone dealt with the same environment.
11 cars was low for a Championship Series event but still a good car count in general. I felt guilty not competing but I decided to take a pass after attending three Majors in my F1000 this year and the desire to double down in P2 for the Runoffs. I did send in my F1000 Championship Series fee. Several cars that were suppose to attend were missing as well for various reasons which was unfortunate.
Normally I am in the car but I will tell you watching F1000 is impressive. Watching them come down into 10 at Road Atlanta at full rev's is an awesome sound with deep braking and a mix of cool looking cars. I heard some people next to me commenting with similar observations.
F1000 is a fantastic class, affordable, and I am staying in F1000 even though my car is for sale. I have owned two Van Diemen F1000 cars and if my car sells a third Van Diemen will probably be in my future as well. I originally chose a Van Diemen because I could turn it into a competitive F2000 or FF if I ever had the desire. Also I have a history of complicating my life and changing cars every few years. I ran a DSR for several years so the P2 made some sense although they can be more costly to run because of the potential to damage carbon fiber body work. Wings and corners on a F1000 are much less expensive and quick to fix on a weekend. Our stock motors are reliable and inexpensive right off EBAY and rebuilds are typically $2,500 or less. I have run FF, FC, FM and if you want a top shelf pro motor those classes can be more expensive to run although they are great classes.
Do do not let F1000 intimidate you if you are considering the class. Run at a speed that you are comfortable with as you get quicker. There is nothing like shifting at 12K plus and the whole package is typically not labor intensive over a season.
There are several cars for sale at different price points for you to consider and we have a great group of people in F1000 that will assist you with answering questions and advice/help at the track.
Mike B and Nicholas have done a great job promoting the Championship with lower Series fee for one race participants and the Series has great contingencies/pay outs. Hopefully some western F1000 guys can get a group transport and come East. The Mid Ohio event end of May would be a great tune up for next years Runoffs.
F1000! Try it! You will like it!
While we wait for round 3 to start, check out the ReplayXD highlight video of round 1 at Road Atlanta featuring a standing start and exciting three way duel for the win! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx66TZJ_33A
Pretty kick ass vid!
(Yeah it's 4am, just another allergy attack here at VIR...)
That is a really great video. Whoever is putting them together is doing a fantastic job.
Racer Russ
Palm Coast, FL
I just wish it didn't take him so damn long...
Great video, great editing...so much fun to watch.
Richard Dziak
Las Cruces, New Mexico
Former Phoenix F1K-07 F1000 #77 owner/driver
website: http://www.formularacingltd.com
email: sonewmexico@gmail.com
Maybe you should double his pay.
lol, Just a quick correction in red pal....honestly I don't want to discourage people getting into this class and racing in general but I see people popping up at majors with zero time under there belt (not even a single regional) and way, way off the pace. How are they getting National Licenses?? I remember it took a bunch of races just to qualify. There are only a few people that can pull that off (Shane, Bell and few more) but most are just moving chicanes that are going to get someone or themselves hurt....
Ok, enough of my rant on that. Now.....video was awesome. Very interesting last lap going into turn 10.....
"If you're not driving on the edge you're taking up too much space.... "
Creative blocking
Not often we see JR getting dished out some creative blocking like that, it's usually the other way around.
Very smartly Hill backed off and let the dustup begin and cruised on thru. That's race craft folks, you don't teach that.
Fun to watch, wish I was on the East Coast.
Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering Inc
FB #76
F1000
Great video! Thanks Mike
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