Spec Tire for FM?

[daericks]

I've been reading all of this and think there have been a lot of constructive comments made.

From where I sit, it is obvious that there just isn't enough information to push the spec tire at this time and Dougs' idea is a good middle ground until there is.

If I am forced to answer the simple question of "Would you be in favor of a spec tire?" with a "yes" or "no" answer I would have to say "yes." But that answer doesn't mean I want to be force fed a specific tire to purchase from a specific source at a specific price without any understanding of how that tire will be supported. If someone can present the REAL question with the actual information versus speculation, I think we could all properly vote (which, by the way I wasn't asked to vote but I do drive FM). The off the cuff question only raises more questions versus get us closer to an answer/decision. I understand that the INTENT is to lower costs and level the playing field a bit. A vote is premature without providing any data to support this will happen.

I'm sure Moses' intent is good but I think it is unfair to ask us to vote on something without knowing what we are actually voting for in the long run.

Dan
06

[weedline]

Dan, I think you pretty much summed up my feelings. I personally think Doug's idea has some merit.
On the surface it appears the majority of drivers don't like the idea of a spec tire as it has been presented at this time.
In the future, I would hope if someone wants to change the rules they would float the idea in this type of format to get as much feedback from the owners as possible. It is the only way to verify what the majority thinks of the idea.

There has been a lot of good information and ideas exchanged in this thread.

I believe Moses does have the best interest of the class and it's future, but I believe he wasn't fully aware of many issues some owners have had to deal with in the past year. I personally have no interest in returning to not knowing if I have tires available on a race weekend.

I know some people on this forum went a little over the line with their post , but I believe it was just frustration how this proposal was presented and the general lack of information surrounding this issue.

Once this is resolved let's discuss updating the aero package for the FM. Those new sexy F1000 cars are giving my car self esteem issues. lol

[daericks]

Is there an action item here or are we just debating with each other? What is the process to determine what happens next? From my understanding, there was a question asked in an extremely informal fashion about using a spec tire. I would hope that no decisions have been made based on that question. I have a no so small inventory of tires that I bought last year that I would hate to have to toss to run in FM this year.

Moses, can you tell me where things stand and what we should all do/expect in the coming months? Thanks,

Dan

[reidhazelton]

Just to add some outside perspective here, as we have been dealing with the same issue in FF for YEARS.

Initially in FF a proposal was submitted for a spec tire, just as in this case. Also similarly, no actual tire was presented. Many, myself included, were uncomfortable voting for a spec tire for fear if we said yes, we would be running on anything from a Blizzak to a 1-lap wonder quali tire. I think that many feared the unknown, and voted no. I did. Now, the important part. It was not clearly presented that simply a "yes" vote for a spec tire did NOT mean that we would be handcuffed to whatever tire "someone" (BoD, CRB, AdHocs, FSRC, etc) selected. The way FF is working this is to not put the cart before the horse, and I missed that first time around for FF. Voting on a specific spec tire is a bit presumptive without knowing if there is even a desire for a spec tire, hence the "do you want a spec tire" questions.

Given the above, if you want a spec tire (Whatever tire you may want) then give the CRB your letter in favor of such. If there is enough support for a spec tire, THEN tire identification, testing, and selection will happen.

As I see it, it is not a blind vote, but just giving direction to the CRB to go forward with to either 1) Keep the status quo, or 2) Begin to evaluate options.

Right now, it really should be a question of do you want a spec tire, or not. Just the concept of such, not a specific tire. That is starting with Step 1, rather than Step 3.

Good luck!

[reidhazelton]

What is the process to determine what happens next?

Dan

Write the CRB through the letter writing process.

[daericks]

That is my point... As far as I know this was informal and no decisions can be made from the random people that were asked. I know EVERYONE wasn't asked because I didn't get an email/call/face to face/smoke signal. So I don't think we are at a point where we need to write to anyone about anything yet. I'm trying to VERIFY this assumption.

[ryanracing]

Everyone was asked in the Dec.? Fastrac, under the "what do you think" section. I don't think SCCA will ask specific members, they just put it out there. That's why I wondered if everyone can vote, or just FM drivers. If everyone can vote someone could easily stack the deck.
Sam Ryan

[reidhazelton]

Everyone was asked in the Dec.? Fastrac, under the "what do you think" section. I don't think SCCA will ask specific members, they just put it out there. That's why I wondered if everyone can vote, or just FM drivers. If everyone can vote someone could easily stack the deck.
Sam Ryan

That's not how it works. You are asked to provide your member number when submitting a letter. Also, you should note if you currently drive and race and FM, have parked you FM, or are looking into FM. Each carries it's own weight and the CRB can sort them accordingly.

The "What do you think" is a call to tell them what you think through the letter writing process.

[preston27]

FM
1. #15884 (Moses Smith) Spec Tire for Formula Mazda
Thank you for your letter. The CRB recommends pursuing the option of a spec tire for Formula Mazda for the 2016 racing
season and beyond.
The CRB thanks the following authors for their input on a spec/control tire in FM: 16019 Weaver, 16023 Smith, 16024 Lewis,
16026 Wills, 16029 Hillenburg, 16042 Weaver, 16045 Weed, 16052 Rogers, 16050 Yake, 16058 Vanhooser, 16066 Noell,
16053 Ryan, 16061 McCallum, 16057 Schultz, 16062 Drew, 16068 Anderson, 16063 O’Donovan, 16064 Gaylord, 16069
Flaten, 16070 Dowis, 16071 Fussell, 16072 Obenauer, 16073 Subject, 16074 Mut, 16075 Hannifan, 16077 Snyder, 16078
Greb, 16080 Johncock, 16082 Hollingsworth, 16084 A. McCallum, 16089 Anderson, 16091 Weeder, 1600 Miserendino,
16093 Zabinski, 16094 Williams, 16096 Norris, 16097 Weeder, 16101 Huffaker, 16102 Addison, 16109 Hansen, 16113
Ravaris, 16115 Rettie, 16117 Carpenter, 16120 Nelson, 16121 Micallef, 16122 Bowers, 16124 Z. Smith, 16125 P. Smith,
16126 Kemper, 16130 Wilson, 16131 D. McCallum, 16132 Markey, 16137 Schumacher, 16141 Homyak, 16143 Yerxa, 16148
Carvaher, and 16162 Garrett.

We are having our parents vote? Moms, Dads there are people here sending in their letters that have never sat in the car. This is how SCCA makes decisions?

[racerdad2]

Not to stir the pot. Drivers, Owners & Sponsors all have a vested interest in the cars they race.

An example. In NASCAR the car owners have substantial input into the rules, tires, etc.

Maybe Moms & Dads are paying for the racing ? Just maybe....

[daericks]

Are you saying if I have 30 sponsors, each of them should get a vote? I am a driver and I sponsor numerous cars and didn't get an invitation to vote one time. I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know what the process is?

As with anything in this great country, we all have the right to choose what we do. If I don't like the process and think it has taken away from the spirit of the class/sport I can choose to not play in that arena any more. I just don't want anything shifty/below board to occur. If it is written that this is the process somewhere and I didn't read the documents then shame on me. If that is not the case, then shame on those that did something they weren't supposed to do. I have raced one season in this car and made some great friendships. That being said, I have no interest in running in a class that is destined to die a slow death due to the way it is run. There are many choices out there and FM isn't one of the fastest growing... Perhaps this is one reason why?

I joined because it was considered highly competitive, cheap to run, and a small group (more track time to learn the car versus watching mirrors the whole time). I didn't care how I finished, I just wanted to get some experience in a formula car. Now that I'm here I see a major dichotomy among the drivers. Some love how it is run and others hate it. I completely understand why. It would seem that you are either in the "in" group or you are out. A lot like high school I guess. I thought I graduated from that a long time ago but apparently it continues well into adulthood. All of that being said, I'll sit back like most of you are doing and see where it leads.

Dan

Oh - if someone has a copy of those "rules" or "processes" I mentioned above, please direct me to where they are. I did ask the SCCA for them and had no idea what I was talking about.

[racerdad2]

I understand both sides of the spec tire debate. For me to be truly competitive I need six sets of tires available depending on track temps & conditions. R-25-35-45-60-intermediates & full wets. I'll be fastest on stickers every race day. For two typical race weekends with practice, qualifying & a race each day, I could spend $4k.

The quest for a spec tire is one longer lasting set dry-inter & wets. IDEALLY one set of tires per weekend. Truly Dreaming of a Magic Dry tire that would be reasonably competitive for two weekends.

My Dream Spec Tire would lower my tire costs from $1,000 per day to $250.

With so many spec items in our various classes - engines, carbs, manifolds, etc. - a long lasting spec tire is appealing to many.

Hoosier provides a good tire for Spec Miata. Goodyear bailed on my class. I'm a supporter of Hoosiers. That's just me.

[Jnovak]

The SCCA CRB has asked for member input on the subject of using a spec tire in both FM and FF. The members of the FSRAC (Formula Sports Racer Advisory Committee). Looks at all the letters and discusses the subject within committee meetings. The FSRAC them makes a recommendation to the CRB, the CRB then decides what to do.

In this particular case the FSRAC recommended to the CRB that the use of a Spec tire be investigated. That is what the CRB has recommended. They have NOT decided if there will be a spec tire or what that tire will be.

That said, the letters to the CRB on the use of a spec tire in both FM and FF were overwhelmingly in favor of the use of a spec tire.

I suspect that this process will take a lot of time before a final decision is made.

[sflaten]

I have been racing with Racerdad2 in Minnesota. Have been keeping my tire costs down using a variety of means and running several weekends on the same tires. I end up buying maybe a couple sets of new tires a season. Maybe I am not at the leading edge of the pack, but I am the driver, mechanic and sponsor, and keeping the costs low is important. I have tried several Hoosiers (FM and FE styles) and the Goodyears have been the quicker. In fact, each time I have set the track record it has been on the Goodyears. My reason for voting for a spec tire is to quit looking for the differences in tire and get down to a single setup and just race. Maybe I can catch racerdad2 this year.

Steve

I understand both sides of the spec tire debate. For me to be truly competitive I need six sets of tires available depending on track temps & conditions. R-25-35-45-60-intermediates & full wets. I'll be fastest on stickers every race day. For two typical race weekends with practice, qualifying & a race each day, I could spend $4k.

The quest for a spec tire is one longer lasting set dry-inter & wets. IDEALLY one set of tires per weekend. Truly Dreaming of a Magic Dry tire that would be reasonably competitive for two weekends.

My Dream Spec Tire would lower my tire costs from $1,000 per day to $250.

With so many spec items in our various classes - engines, carbs, manifolds, etc. - a long lasting spec tire is appealing to many.

Hoosier provides a good tire for Spec Miata. Goodyear bailed on my class. I'm a supporter of Hoosiers. That's just me.

[racerdad2]

Steve.

Actually, I was trying to catch you ! It wasn't easy until your engine cradle broke & you lost your oil. Not really too hard passing you when you're parked in the grass Hope you have it all sorted. That car is fast ! We need to give Jed a run this year !

[Ritchie]

Sign me up for Doug's 4 tires per race weekend program. It is the next best thing to a good spec tire program. I am generally in favor of a spec tire, but it has to be the right tire. Even with a spec tire, Doug's 4 tire concept would be beneficial. For well over ten years I competed in Spec Racer Renault then Ford and recall a couple of good spec tires along with some really bad ones. The worse seemed to be connected to Pro Spec Racer series sponsorship. The great part about Doug's approach is it can be implemented at any time. No testing, no negotiations with tire suppliers. So how do we get the 4 tire per weekend on the books?