One Class Compromise?

[BLS]

1. Wheel base can be up to 2" longer
2. Body length can be 10" longer
3. 1600 engine. Mostly stock , but with allowed aftermarket parts and a FFDA provided restrictor plate and W-110 Cam. Develops about 85HP (100+ lb ft torque)
4. Mandatory stock VW transaxle with long box and 1.26 third gear.
5. 4 Wheel Disc brakes
6. Ball Joint beam with certain allowed mods.
7. Aftermarket wheels (13" x 6") with the Formula Ford Spec tires. (Hoosier R-60A)
8. Weight 1125 (with driver)
9. Rack and Pinion Steering allowed.
10. FIA F3 cockpit opening (no fan shroud rule)

While I think it is "plausible", I'm only seeing a one way compromise. I'm quite certain the FST cars are not going back to drum brakes and link pin beams, a 1200 motor, or a VW worm gear steering box

The "compromise" in terms of bringing the cars closer together in specification is a slight possibility starting with disc brakes and BJ beams. We could allow an additional 2" wheelbase for those height challenged individuals that wish to add some cockpit length A rack and pinion would not be a class killer...

Weight's not going up. Wheels and tires, not going to happen if it slows the cars down IMO. I think among many issues anything that slows the car down has zero chance of approval. And there is plenty of opposition to brake/BJ beam changes, but I think it is at least possible.

So, while I voted plausible, I think it has very little chance.

Barry

[rave motorsports]

From an SCCA political perspective I feel they spoke to membership a few months ago with the disc brake decision/indecision/decision. That along with the " Concorde Plan" tells me they are not interested in doing anything with either class. Just keep on trodding along and let what ever happens happen. I'm okay with that I just wish they would make that clear so that those of us that invest $ in a class development would have an idea. Such as - I have been considering investing a sizeable amount of money in FST wheels. There will be a need soon for someone to step up and do that for the good of our class. I also have a sizeable investment already in FST parts. I would do more if I knew the stability of our rules was what it currently is. I'm sure others that supply FV are in a similar situation. If SCCA expects us to step to the plate and invest thousands of dollars in our class I think they would immensely help by determining and communicating a clear vision for both classes.

We are 40 posts into this and as Noel pointed out the feelings are 50/50.

With that said, I have not seen one techincal or political idea of how this would happen.

No worries in those areas?

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

I have been considering investing a sizeable amount of money in FST wheels.

Bill Bonow can correct me if I am wrong but the FST rules have been rock solid from day one.

I think that for the first few years they did allow FV steering boxes and drum brakes in the rear. I believe this was just a short term rule to give conversion cars some time to switch over.

I think they added the American Racer CF tire to the available tire choices at some point also.

Wheel dimensional changes have never even been discussed as far as I know.

Besides SCCA now controls the rules and we know how hard it is to get a rule change through that process.

[ajpastore]

The situation is so different in FV where so many pieces of the car came off of a production car and the rules are limited to those exact components, with no other replacements.

Doug, this is why FV and FST exist and why many cars can continue to be competitive regardless of age. This isn't a bad thing. It may not be high tech enough for you but it has enabled many thousands of people to go racing since it's inception. It is not a end of the world issue for the people that are currently racing FV and FST and oh how I wish you would stop saying it is.

But this thread isn't about that and now I am guilty of aiding in going off Bills very specific thread topic.

To the topic. Aren't FV and FST already sharing the stage? In a regional situation, they are running with FV with FST and I'm sure they will continue to as FST grows...no?

[Doug FST 5]

If you had the top national FVs with the top FSTs then I bet there would be problems. The FSTs would tow along the FVs on the straights and hold them up in the corners.

We ran the BRD conversion at the last Mid-Oh regional before the runoffs at that track some years ago. Not a series race for FST, just a weekend of development for us. Lots of "big names" in the FV field. They were back there somewhere but I didn't race with them. I just don't see this as an issue.

Doug FST 5

[Amon]

FV track record at M-O is either 38's or low 39's?

[Bill Bonow]

Bill Bonow can correct me if I am wrong but the FST rules have been rock solid from day one.

Bill,

There have been no changes to anything in the GCR rules in FST from the point at 1/1/2009 when it went in. Prior to that point, the only major change was the allowance of dry sump.

[problemchild]

Whether I am racing FV or FST, I would absolutely prefer to be in a FV/FST group than Formula Alphabet or any other mix of classes. FV and FST need to accept themselves, each other, and maintain/grow their numbers as a group. That is the best survival strategy for both classes.

If you race in an area with only a few FVs or FSTs, and you insist on making them run Formula Aphabet group so you can have your own group, then you are jeopardizing your own future as much as theirs. At that point, it has stopped being about safety, which is apparent to officials, workers, spectators, and other classes.

[rave motorsports]

I realize there have been little to no changes almost since the beginning in FST. That's what attracted us to FST to begin with. But, earlier posts start mentioning changes to meet in the middle. Like I said I'm not unwavering about coming together with FV. I do think that if there is a possibility of rules changes to make that happen they should be decided and clearly communicated so those of us on the supply side can compensate. I doubt many of you would invest thousands of dollars in inventory not knowing what a clear plan might be.

[G.B.]

We ran the BRD conversion at the last Mid-Oh regional before the runoffs at that track some years ago. Not a series race for FST, just a weekend of development for us. Lots of "big names" in the FV field. They were back there somewhere but I didn't race with them. I just don't see this as an issue.

Doug FST 5

Doug,

With respect, you are not the problem, but not all FSTs are as quick as you.

Refering back to Robert's post 35 and Bill post 38, you seem to imply that all FST are running lap record pace all the time.

Thinking back to the Glen this year, it was the early laps where I felt I was held up, probably until the R60s had warmed up. Unforunately, by that time the lead FV had broken away.

That said, drafting the FSTs was quite fun.

Guy.

[Steve Bamford]

Doug,

With respect, you are not the problem, but not all FSTs are as quick as you.

Refering back to Robert's post 35 and Bill post 38, you seem to imply that all FST are running lap record pace all the time.

Thinking back to the Glen this year, it was the early laps where I felt I was held up, probably until the R60s had warmed up. Unforunately, by that time the lead FV had broken away.

That said, drafting the FSTs was quite fun.

Guy.

Sorry this might get off topic but may help to address the concern listed above.

Guy,

I have seen this happen in many different events with other classes as well. My suggestion would be at the drivers meetings the Stewart addresses this with the drivers so they are aware & instruct corner workers to call in if they see this happening. Drivers can present in car video to show this happening as well.

If the SCCA sees this as an issue, which most of us drivers seem to agree it is, then they should address it with the drivers. I personally have never seen nor heard a Steward speak of the issue or call anyone to their offices to discuss it.

Does this make any sense?

[Doug FST 5]

Hi Guy,

I know there are issues through the pack. I was responding to Mr. Farnham's direct question about the pointy end of the FV and FST packs in a race where both were being run by good examples of the class potential. Whenever we run more than one class at a time we will have teams of varying speed potential in different classes interfering with each other. The best we can do is educate each other on how best to handle that situation.

Doug FST 5

[rgu]

Big interclass differences exist in most race groups. I understand the last lap of the Vee Runoffs race had a slow car lapping incident-and that was a one class race. Slow drivers have a right to their little bit of the track too. That’s why amateur racing is a lot like amateur golf.

[problemchild]

Hi Guy,

I know there are issues through the pack. I was responding to Mr. Farnham's direct question about the pointy end of the FV and FST packs in a race where both were being run by good examples of the class potential. Whenever we run more than one class at a time we will have teams of varying speed potential in different classes interfering with each other. The best we can do is educate each other on how best to handle that situation.

Doug FST 5

It seems this tangent has nothing to do with the topic. In SCCA in 2015 and the future, no single class with under 25-30 cars can expect to have a race group to themselves. Mixed class racing is a fact of life. If you bring 25-30 cars to a group, then you can go to Bob Wright or other Pro groups and get some great races going. Until that time, selecting your bedfellows should be the focus. Racing in Formula Alphabet is the worst case scenario for either FV or FST. Just being able to keep the group to 3-4 classes may be the best of scenarios for some areas.

[Amon]

RGU,

They may have a right to their section of the track, but if you're getting lapped you need to use your mirrors and be aware of the situation, and if you're in a faster class of car holding up a pack of vee's or FST's or whatever and running by yourself, use
your head and don't ruin their race by dive bombing in the corners and splitting up the group. Too many races are ruined by slow drivers in cars they probably shouldn't be in and having no idea about what's going on around them.

Mark

[Bill Bonow]

Well, only took 55 posts to break all of the requested thread rules.

Let's close this turkey down before it slides any futher