This section seems to be all FF people, but anyway...I am thinking about FB 1000 cars for autoX. They would be in Bmod. Looks like all the BM cars at Nationals are LeGrand types. Any opinions re FB cars in BM?
Mark
BMod autoxers
This section seems to be all FF people, but anyway...I am thinking about FB 1000 cars for autoX. They would be in Bmod. Looks like all the BM cars at Nationals are LeGrand types. Any opinions re FB cars in BM?
Mark
1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, 2016 Frontier
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
LeGrands are very fast at nationals in b-mod. I'm not sure but I think FB (F1000's) would be in B-mod. I think the deciding factor is the wing surface area and engine placement. FSV and FC are in B-mod I know.Originally Posted by mwizard
Hope this helps,
Jon Updegrove
RF97 Van Diemen FC
It's been a very long time since I autocrossed in BMod, so I'm curious if the following is still true.
It used to be that as long as an autocross formula car or sports racer met the rules of an SCCA road race car, it met the BMod rules. But once you went passed that ruleset (by adding bigger wings, tires, engine, whatever), the car would be moved up to AMod.
If that's still true, it seems like a F1000 could make a good BMod racer.
Does FB/F1000 have a minimum wheel base or track? If yes, I suppose that mind hinder auto-x performance (if the FB WB/track is too long or too wide).
Racer Russ
Palm Coast, FL
Rus, Some road race rules are specifically waved for autoX. And, yes, going beyond the max limits moves a car to AM.
I am looking for someone who has already done the research on F1000 cars for autoX.
Mark
1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, 2016 Frontier
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
FB cars tend to be based on FF chassis, and they are pretty wide to run in BM. But they can run there at the 1020 lbm weight. If you're preparing a car for BM, you would be better off to go with the FS rules. The FB rules restrict you to a stock one liter superbike motor. FS allows the same displacement with mods, and also other engine options. There are also special aero allowances for formula cars in BM. Need to read the SR and FA rules from the GCR, as well as the BM solo rules to figure out what you can do. There is talk of revising the rules, possibly putting them all in one place, possibly changing engine and/or aero rules for 2016. In addition to the LeGrand Mk 18 or Mk 25 cars that have been winning lately, in 2013 an FS car with similar width and wheelbase dimensions won. All the recent winners have been powered by GSXR1000 or Yamaha R1 motors.
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It used to be that as long as an autocross formula car or sports racer met the rules of an SCCA road race car, it met the BMod rules. But once you went passed that ruleset (by adding bigger wings, tires, engine, whatever), the car would be moved up to AMod.
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It is necessary to read the Solo rulebook. There are solo overrides for BMod. For example, 8 sq ft allowed for BM sports racer wings. More.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
FS isn't specifically listed in the proposed BMod rules update because it is superfluous to the FA rules as they relate to BMod.
Need to read the proposed BMod rules, which are on hold until more tweaking and member feedback. Now on track for implementation on 1/1/2016.
See starting the middle of page 3, http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...strack-may.pdf
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
Dan Cyr’s 2013 National winning car is basically a FS or modded FB. In BM both sportsracers and open wheelers can run FA wings. With the same wings, the sportsracers do have a slight advantage because the body make some downforce. At 1020 lbs and 150-180hp, these cars can make use of autox specific aero packages. Smaller cars also have an advantage. A narrow VD conversion with autox aero could be competitive nationally. The FB Stohr, RFR, etc are just too large to fight for a solo championship
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Personally, I have own a LeGrand (that is for sale) and a Prince LSR (VD conversion sportsracer). The Prince is the later wide layout with a 70” width and 99” wheelbase. The LeGrand is better at autocross and would be faster on any autox course I’ve ever done even though the Prince can generate more lateral grip. The 61” wide LeGrand with a 81” wheelbase saves a lot of time in slaloms and every tight element.
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Btw my LeGrand is for sale, available with a Yamaha R1 drivetrain, or as a roller if you want GSXR or Kawi power!
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Open wheel cars in BMod must meet FA GCR but with Solo over-rides.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
Darn, I really like my FF, especially the suspension. Having another 50-70 hp and maybe some downforce would be lots of fun. I can see that a F1000 is just too big to do autoX as well as the LeGrands.
Mark
1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, 2016 Frontier
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
So what we need to do mark is throw silly big wings on our formula fords, shoehorn engines with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) into the chassis and voi-la! AM specials...
Not...So what we need to do mark is throw silly big wings on our formula fords, shoehorn engines with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) into the chassis and voi-la! AM specials...
1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, 2016 Frontier
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
Convert the drivetrain in your FF or buy a LeGrand, it doesn't have to be hard.
Perry's (now Kenton's) car is a converted VD FF.
I have been contemplating this for some time now. An FF with a ZX10R (should see around 180whp stock) as well as quafe and what not, it would probably be another 100 pounds lighter, have more power, plus wings for FA rules? Sounds like a great possibility to me..
Not as easy as it seems
Perry's VD was "Converted" by adding a specially modified Dragon Sr2 rear frame section (roll hoop back). Any one with 20 years experience and Perry's talents could do it easily. LOL
I have done more than few of these cars starting in 1976 and am happy to help prospective builders.
Bill Gendron
I happen to know of a great car available for sale. It even has a few of Bill's very impressive Small Fortune upgrades!
Open to offers or trades!
turbo Kent with wings?
No forced induction allowed in BM, but a FF1600 (or FF2000) largely unchanged in terms of chassis could be the basis for a very competitive BM solo car. I personally have a 2-stroke in a FF2000 chassis for BM, but that engine swap is more work. More like doing a bike motor.
Anyway, back to very minimal chassis changes:
The Australians were fond of using a lightweight 1600cc 2valve single overhead cam motor in chassis like these and it was capable of BM competitive power. i.e. 175 HP crank typical and over 200 narrow power band)
About like a bike engine's HP and doesn't require doing much, if anything, to the chasses tubes except probably different motor mounts.
It would run at 1110 lbs. to the 2-valve 1615cc BM weight rule which is not much more than the 1020 lbs. of a 1005 cc bike or 900cc 2-stroke engine.
The suspension arms and driveshafts can be narrowed as desired, but I'd always recommend trying the car with more power and wings first and doing what you can with rim offsets to keep the car narrow.
Small Fortune Racing and maybe others can do all of this for you with one stop shopping! Small Fortune can even provide the solo wings.
For someone local to the central valley here, you might want to talk with the fellow with the Prepared class Starlet who used to run the Mexico Escort. Ask if he has any Cortina 1600's available that he built. He got a maximum of about 170 HP with a pushrod Cortina. That is probably a peakier motor at that HP than the Australian SOHC engine, but might even allow the headers to be reused on a F1600 for BM.
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