CMod new guy

[CharlieDavis]

Well, I think I'm going to get serious about C/Mod as soon as my Corvette sells. The question is which way to go. I tried to fit into Mark Mervich's Van Diemen and couldn't get my thighs down through the frame, much less my shoulders.

Are there Formula Fords that fit someone 5'10" and 225 lbs? Let's face it, even on a diet and exercise program I'm going to have big thighs and broad shoulders.

I really like S2000s, but they seem to be non-existent or out of my price range.

Then there's Solo Vee. The Vee guys think they need more allowances, the Ford guys are concerned that they are already too fast. It looks like you could buy a pretty good FVee, sell the 1200 engine, wheels and tires, etc. and have a fairly inexpensive starting point.

Solo Vee mods: 1600 or 1915? What wheels and tires? Which is the best trans for Solo? Do you want the allowed disc brakes and rack and pinion steering? Coil-over fronts? Any other necessary mods?

Thoughts?

[chrisw52]

Charlie, you might try to strap on my car. FWIW, I have 32 inch leg, and if you have a 38" waist, you should be able to sit in the car, then the biggest question is the shoulder fit.

When I first sat in Mark's car. I could fit (barely). I find my car has a bigger cockpit than the VD.

[Barry Ott]

Charlie,
Welcome!!!! If I were to start today, I would buy this and convert it to FF:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65723

Really! Honestly! There are reasonably priced Kent's available to replace the Pinto, there's lots of knowledge on this forum to help you through the conversion (Keith Averill, Larry Oliver, etc), you will know everything about the car when you're done, and the car will be a spectacular CM beast when you're done. Getting wheels will be pricey. The cockpit is pretty big, I had a good friend occasionally drive mine and he was 6'5 and ~240.

Hmmmm, I might be talking myself into doing it I love my VD/Honda but my Reynard was magic on an autocross course.

Take a look at the Nationals results from a few years ago, you'll see '88 Reynards mentioned a few times

[DanW]

Charlie,

You would also fit a Zink Z10. I live in Benicia and you are welcome to try it on.

[mwizard]

Charlie,
One of the main things that makes FF's work so well is the suspension(well combined with really sticky tires). There is no way to reproduce this in a FVee. You are stuck with making the VW stuff work, somehow.
Mark

[Dick R.]

Charlie,

If shoulder fit is the only issue it might be with a diagonal brace between the front roll hoop and the rear hoop. If so, for cars like Swift DB-1's and 85/86 VD's the brace can be moved higher on the front hoop and "spread" a bit.

Compare "my 85 VD" (now sold to a buyer who intends to relocate the brace) to the Lavender's (formerly Nick Myers' 85 VD). If you look at a variety of DB-1's or their pictures you will see similar configs. Both of these cars might still be too tight for you but the concept might solve your problem with other chassis.

[Lynn]

Solo Vee mods: 1600 or 1915? What wheels and tires? Which is the best trans for Solo? Do you want the allowed disc brakes and rack and pinion steering? Coil-over fronts? Any other necessary mods?

Thoughts?

1600's have slightly better thottle response, but 1915's are a lot stronger off the corners. 1915 is the way to go. Wheels most commonly used are 8 x 13 in front and 10 x 13 in the rear. Tires are usually Hoosier R25B compound in the appropriate width. Transmissions are custom geared for Solo. Dune buggy disk brakes save at least 10 pounds per corner. Rack and pinion depends on the chassis. The only way to mount a rack on my car resulted in massive toe changes. Coil over fronts allow for quicker changes of ride height and spring rate changes, but I don't think either of the cars with them use those benefits very often. There may be some benefit to an LSD with the 1915 on tight courses. But, it can cause understeer on corner exit.

Now, with all that said, it will cost much more to build a Solo Vee from scratch than to buy a Ford and prep it. That is true even if you have to buy gears and shocks for the Ford. The only advantage to SoloVee is the engine rebuilds are much, much cheaper than rebuilding a Kent. If you really want an older Vee, go vintage racing. It will be cheaper than a SoloVee.

[Larry R Metz]

Try the facebook site SVOA and you can ask questions from a number of solo vee guys. Also there are many more guys on Apex that may be of assistance.

There are a lot of opinions as to if the solo vee is competitive. I have not seen a fully well prepared solo vee with a national level driver since Scott Nardin won. His car has not used all the updates that are permitted now, and it was about two seconds behind the current national champion at the Grissom Match Tour this year. He does not believe the solo vee is competitive, but I would challenge the idea, that with full use of all the suspension and other mods now permitted, basically a formula first with a big solo vee engine, minimum weight, and properly selected gearing, there just might be the opportunity to again be competitive. I have been with a vee and then solo vee since 1981, attended 17 nationals as driver and five more as photographer, so I have been monitoring things fairly closely.

A solo vee is probably cheaper in many ways than a FF. But you must be motivated to be working with a possible under dog for the class. I would challenge that present solo vee competitors are all going the same direction in tires and setup.....perhaps it needs some fresh and different ideas to break thru and be competitive.

Most likely a solo vee can be more easily made to fit a bigger driver. There appears to be more areas that you can be creative and develop things to find that possible "unfair advantage" with a solo vee, while getting a FF, you will just have what everyone else has, and be just an expensive back runner. I would think to have a competitive FF you would need a Honda engine, and one of the latest chassis, thus are into way more finances than getting into a solo vee. SR racing has a formula first now for sale, basically a brand new car, for about $10,000. You would only need to enlarge the engine, and modify the tranny to have a first rate solo vee.

Which ever you do, you can think of it as a long time investment, with several years of enjoyment that does not require as much funding as say club racing. C mod. seems to be a stable class for now, although if a solo vee gets to strong, I have been told by a solo board member they will move the solo vee AGAIN, as they want to protect the FF/s,

[ricky bobby]

Larry, a Honda engine hasn't won Nationals yet in CM. The last 4 winners have been a Reynard, Dulon, Swift and Van Diemen chassis. All 80's vintage chassis except for the Dulon... A '73. So no, a Honda engine and a new chassis isn't a Requirement to win CM. What is required that I have observed is obscenely good driving and meticulous setup and maintenance. Regardless, this is a very fun and fast class to be around (coming from an FM driver with several friends in the CM grid).I can't personally speak to the competitiveness of a FV in the class, since I haven't seen enough come out to play.


As for the OP, if fitment is a concern in any chassis... There's nothing a plasma cutter, extra tubing and a welder can't fix. :-)

[GChambers]

At almost 6'2", 230lbs I fit very comfortably in my 84 VanDiemen. I don't know if the Chassis has ever been modified for a larger driver but I've sat in two different 84 VanDiemens and both were very comfortable to me.

When I bought my car I had the same concerns. Mark Lamm's advice was "Just buy the damn car. We'll figure out how to make you fit in it".

Edit: I was also very comfortable in that 74 Dulon. :-)

[Don Elzinga]

'83-84 Reynards are good for wider drivers, although they are kind of tight for people much over 6' tall. The '88 Reynard is good too, but because it's still competitive in club racing and there are a lot fewer of them around the prices are higher. The '83-84 has good suspension, it's just too wide in the body to run with the newer cars on long straights. In solo it's still very competitive.

Don