What do WE need to do...

[blackhole]

After more than 50 years of FV and a lot of thinking about what can you do to improve participation there seems to be only one thing that really works. That is have fun at the races and bring your friends and family. Most of the new racers I know of are people whose family or friends were already racing and they came out ,had a good time, and eventually became a participant. These people far outnumber those that come from seeing a support race at a pro event, or saw a car on display at a car show. Want more participation, Invite your friends to come along and crew or just hang out. Have more children. We seem to have lots of new drivers whose parents were or still are drivers.
Have better events with more competition. If track time is all you care about you would never go to a runoffs. Always great racing and lousy track time yet Vee guys seem to love it.
Butch

I like the "have more children" thing. Thats awesome!! I will hopefully have a new F1200 entry ready for 2030!!!

[crypt0zink]

Butch's point is right on and doesn't just relate to FV, but most motorsports. I'm guessing many past/current drivers started racing because a friend or family member. They had them sit in a FV cockpit or attend a race weekend and the hook was set.

[Rolling Stone]

Butch's point is right on and doesn't just relate to FV, but most motorsports. I'm guessing many past/current drivers started racing because a friend or family member. They had them sit in a FV cockpit or attend a race weekend and the hook was set.

Exactly,FV/F1200 is a family thing,its about small budgets,average paying job,etc,etc.It aint gonna ever get into the "big" time,folks cant afford the time or money,the average F1600 driver I would say is financially better off,can afford it,or is aiming higher in racing...fair enough.FV/F1200 is for the working class hero.

[nbrigido]

After more than 50 years of FV and a lot of thinking about what can you do to improve participation there seems to be only one thing that really works. That is have fun at the races and bring your friends and family. Most of the new racers I know of are people whose family or friends were already racing and they came out ,had a good time, and eventually became a participant. These people far outnumber those that come from seeing a support race at a pro event, or saw a car on display at a car show. Want more participation, Invite your friends to come along and crew or just hang out. Have more children. We seem to have lots of new drivers whose parents were or still are drivers.
Have better events with more competition. If track time is all you care about you would never go to a runoffs. Always great racing and lousy track time yet Vee guys seem to love it.
Butch

I could be wrong, but I heard that SCCA races are "not" spectator friendly?

[nbrigido]

They tried this in the past and from what Harry said you have to guarantee x amount of cars and if you don't have them each driver or the club has to cover the cost. When they did the pro weekends not as many people showed because of the increased cost and less track time.
I asked this question 5 years ago and that was the answer I got.

No offence, but we can't live in the past? we have to be prepared to try new things, until we try them, we won't know if they work.

It has been mentioned many times in different posts by various people, that no matter what we do or talk about, nothing will ever change. I disagree, we have to change with the times, provide information, be willing to take some risks and try something new.

Does it really matter what the age of the driver is that decides to come out and drive with us? It seems to some it does..

Has anyone ever tried to approach a potential sponsor for a series, even if it is just for a pro event? We run Falkens in Ontario, and many of the NE guys will be running them as well. Has it been tried to go to Falken to help sponsor a premiere event, where there will be alot of spectators, possible TV coverage, print advertisement.

There must be a reason TOYO is sponsoring the FF/F1600 in Ontario?

No it will not happen overnight, but as numbers increase, so does the value of the brand.

[blackhole]

No offence, but we can't live in the past? we have to be prepared to try new things, until we try them, we won't know if they work.

It has been mentioned many times in different posts by various people, that no matter what we do or talk about, nothing will ever change. I disagree, we have to change with the times, provide information, be willing to take some risks and try something new.

Does it really matter what the age of the driver is that decides to come out and drive with us? It seems to some it does..

Has anyone ever tried to approach a potential sponsor for a series, even if it is just for a pro event? We run Falkens in Ontario, and many of the NE guys will be running them as well. Has it been tried to go to Falken to help sponsor a premiere event, where there will be alot of spectators, possible TV coverage, print advertisement.

There must be a reason TOYO is sponsoring the FF/F1600 in Ontario?

No it will not happen overnight, but as numbers increase, so does the value of the brand.

No offence here I wasn't the one who said it or agreed with it.

[dd46637]

I could be wrong, but I heard that SCCA races are "not" spectator friendly?

There are very few if any spectator races held by SCCA any more for insurance reasons I am sure. However I have never seen anyone turned away at the gate as long as they were willing to sign all the appropriate waivers. Many times a region will find a way to let them in without having to buy a pit pass.

Dave

[butch deer]

I could be wrong, but I heard that SCCA races are "not" spectator friendly?

While this may be true in the sense that they don,t all sell tickets,Tee shirts, and always have convenient concession stands. I find most regions welcome friends and family as long as you make sure they know about things like registration hours and having to cross the track between sessions and bring there own food if necessary. With this in mind most regions welcome overcrew. Bring your friends, tell them to bring lawn chairs,plan a BBQ, Make them feel part of the crew. They can be great fans, come more often, enhance your own experience, and may someday try it themselves or tell friends who might.

Butch

[Matt King]

I could be wrong, but I heard that SCCA races are "not" spectator friendly?

On the contrary, family and friends make up the bulk of the "spectators" at any SCCA race. You can put them on your crew list for free entry and all they need to do is sign the track waivers.

[Johan W]

On the contrary, family and friends make up the bulk of the "spectators" at any SCCA race. You can put them on your crew list for free entry and all they need to do is sign the track waivers.

Matt...my wife had to register and join SCCA, pay for a one day membership to get a entry pass.

The Can-Am series look like a done deal with possible sponsorships from two sources if I read my e-mail correct. Will enjoy the series next year with my traditional bacon and egg breakfast and barbeque in the evening.

Very exciting to visit the new tracks and enjoy. Thanks to Rob and the team getting this series going.

[Johan W]

No offence, but we can't live in the past? we have to be prepared to try new things, until we try them, we won't know if they work. Many tried and failed...even got threatening e-mails(will print them and show you at the next event)

It has been mentioned many times in different posts by various people, that no matter what we do or talk about, nothing will ever change. Correct I disagree, we have to change with the times, provide information, be willing to take some risks and try something new. See my first response

Does it really matter what the age of the driver is that decides to come out and drive with us? It seems to some it does..No and it shouldn't.

Has anyone ever tried to approach a potential sponsor for a series, even if it is just for a pro event? We run Falkens in Ontario, and many of the NE guys will be running them as well. Has it been tried to go to Falken to help sponsor a premiere event, where there will be alot of spectators, possible TV coverage, print advertisement. See e-mail from Rob De Palma...this should be posted and congratulated with the positive news in this regards. Twenty drivers already committed as per Greg.

There must be a reason TOYO is sponsoring the FF/F1600 in Ontario?

No it will not happen overnight, but as numbers increase, so does the value of the brand.

I'm a bit concerned that these conversations advertise the opposite to what you and others wants to achieve. New possible members/drivers reading these posts may think they're standing to lose their investment soon if they invest in a f1200. Someone new(Dave Morgan) asked me if he should wait(Bill Vallis in the process getting/sourcing a f1200 for 2015) to see if the formula would make it to the end of next season after I gave him the link to ApexSpeed.

[nbrigido]

I'm a bit concerned that these conversations advertise the opposite to what you and others wants to achieve. New possible members/drivers reading these posts may think they're standing to lose their investment soon if they invest in a f1200. Someone new(Dave Morgan) asked me if he should wait(Bill Vallis in the process getting/sourcing a f1200 for 2015) to see if the formula would make it to the end of next season after I gave him the link to ApexSpeed.

The purpose of starting this thread was to get ideas for promoting FV/1200, not the Canadian Series but North American. The stronger the base the better it is for everyone involved. We need the parts suppliers and engine builders.

Can-Am is a perfect example of groups working together, but may not work in another area. When people start taking things personally that's when these threads get out of hand.

Many people have brought many different ideas to the table, time to sit back put them together and see how they can be implemented and tried. If they don't get the results, at least you tried, if it works then perfect, you did good.

Many people are living in the past, with "it didn't work before", "it is what it is", "tried and failed" but at some point we have to stop talking about it and do something

The # of people responding the these threads represent maybe 5% for the FV/F1200 community. We are not going to get cars out of the garages with these threads, many of those with a FV in the garage forgot they even owned a race care.

[Rolling Stone]

The purpose of starting this thread was to get ideas for promoting FV/1200, not the Canadian Series but North American. The stronger the base the better it is for everyone involved. We need the parts suppliers and engine builders.

Can-Am is a perfect example of groups working together, but may not work in another area. When people start taking things personally that's when these threads get out of hand.

Many people have brought many different ideas to the table, time to sit back put them together and see how they can be implemented and tried. If they don't get the results, at least you tried, if it works then perfect, you did good.

Many people are living in the past, with "it didn't work before", "it is what it is", "tried and failed" but at some point we have to stop talking about it and do something

The # of people responding the these threads represent maybe 5% for the FV/F1200 community. We are not going to get cars out of the garages with these threads, many of those with a FV in the garage forgot they even owned a race care.

Posted at 5:40 AM!!!!my you are full of enthusiasm or you have sleep apnia

[nbrigido]

I'm a bit concerned that these conversations advertise the opposite to what you and others wants to achieve. New possible members/drivers reading these posts may think they're standing to lose their investment soon if they invest in a f1200. Someone new(Dave Morgan) asked me if he should wait(Bill Vallis in the process getting/sourcing a f1200 for 2015) to see if the formula would make it to the end of next season after I gave him the link to ApexSpeed.

The one comment that bothers me is the treatening emails..It is those comments that can make new racers stay away. While I don't know the context of the email. I have a hard time thinking anyone in our group to send out threatening email BECAUSE OF A NEW IDEA. I would find that hard from any group.

[problemchild]

The one comment that bothers me is the treatening emails..It is those comments that can make new racers stay away. While I don't know the context of the email. I have a hard time thinking anyone in our group to send out threatening email BECAUSE OF A NEW IDEA. I would find that hard from any group.

Discussing here is not helpful either.
This thread started off with very positive commentary.

[blackhole]

Something we can do right now. Realistically how many F1200 drivers actually have a Apexspeed account.

We should send a mass email to all the FTDA members and encourage them to sign up and participate. Noel you have the master email list maybe you could send one out.

More awareness more people get excited more people spread the word.

[Amon]

What we all need to do today is eat a lot of turkey, stuffing, mash Potato's and drink
beer while watching the football games. At halftime, stagger back to the dinner table and
feast on the pumpkin pie and get ready to restart this discussion tomorrow. Happy thanksgiving
to all!!

Mark

[blackhole]

What we all need to do today is eat a lot of turkey, stuffing, mash Potato's and drink
beer while watching the football games. At halftime, stagger back to the dinner table and
feast on the pumpkin pie and get ready to restart this discussion tomorrow. Happy thanksgiving
to all!!

Mark

Here in Kanada where we live in igloos we had Thanksgiving a while ago!! I'll take it as a belated Happy Thanksgiving!!

[problemchild]

What we all need to do today is eat a lot of turkey, stuffing, mash Potato's and drink
beer while watching the football games. At halftime, stagger back to the dinner table and
feast on the pumpkin pie and get ready to restart this discussion tomorrow. Happy thanksgiving
to all!!

Mark

Fortunately, all that other car racing stuff on the cable channels is done, so we only need the remote to flip between whatever football game is on and ESPN. I actually missed a few clips last weekend trying to check out the F1 race during the commercial breaks on NFL Countdown.

[Rolling Stone]

Something we can do right now. Realistically how many F1200 drivers actually have a Apexspeed account.

We should send a mass email to all the FTDA members and encourage them to sign up and participate. Noel you have the master email list maybe you could send one out.

More awareness more people get excited more people spread the word.

Yes!we could all have a massdebate together

[nbrigido]

Something we can do right now. Realistically how many F1200 drivers actually have a Apexspeed account.

We should send a mass email to all the FTDA members and encourage them to sign up and participate. Noel you have the master email list maybe you could send one out.

More awareness more people get excited more people spread the word.

My goal was to involve the whole FV/F1200 community, Not just Canada but everyone. We can all learn from each other.

What we face, other do as well. Everyone from every region has rasied some very good, strong points about what to do and how to do it.

Now it is time to make some of these come true and increase car counts.

[budawe]

SCCA insurance is no longer a spectator issue. All events can have spectators if the track and region wants them. Some tracks say no, others are more than happy to charge admission if someone shows up.

SCCA Memberships are not required unless the individual is planning to go into a "hot" area like the pit lane.

[jpetillo]

No offence, but we can't live in the past? we have to be prepared to try new things, until we try them, we won't know if they work.

Agreed - although we should listen to what's been the experiences from the past, we can't expect that the current generation will act the same. We should look forward.

It has been mentioned many times in different posts by various people, that no matter what we do or talk about, nothing will ever change. I disagree, we have to change with the times, provide information, be willing to take some risks and try something new.

There are a few naysayers that say nothing will ever change. That attitude isn't helpful, and often derails positive and useful threads. Like you, I don't see that being the case, either - things can and will change. In the NE, we have been successful trying new things - or just retrying the same things that had helped (or not) in the past. Some things work better than others. We definitely have seen change. Your ideas, attitude, and efforts will definitely have a positive impact.

Does it really matter what the age of the driver is that decides to come out and drive with us? It seems to some it does.

SNIP

No it will not happen overnight, but as numbers increase, so does the value of the brand.

Well said - I think this hits the point. I still believe that promotion will help more at this time than making changes to the cars.

The other thing that helps is positive and healthy threads, like this one. The helps because we are working together to find ways to improve the class(es), and newcomers will see that as a plus for considering joining our class(es).

This site is perhaps the single biggest public awareness and promotional conduits for FV/F1200. We should all consider this as we post and chip away at finding new ways to improve our classes. John

[jpetillo]

I could be wrong, but I heard that SCCA races are "not" spectator friendly?

Perhaps "not spectator friendly" might be an overstatement, like Brian mentioned, as a "crew" member, you can get in free, although at some tracks only at certain times when the SCCA is registering drivers/crew, etc. Some of tracks I've been to have charged an entry fee for the public to enter, or charged crew who don't show up during the registration windows. I guess some tracks may not let public enter, but I haven't see it. The worst case I've seen is you might have to pay $20 to enter, but you can enter, and then have free run of the pits or stands.

[Sigma Racing]

I apologize in advance if the following upsets anyone, the point of this thread is to find ways to get more butts in seats and therefore more cars at the races. There have been great ideas floating around but most require someone to execute them. And in this lies the problem. The racing series regardless of the country requiring the drivers to promote the sport is fundamentally flawed. If you want results then do like the other successful series and start treating it like a business, get a marketing team instead of taking the lazy way and pawn it off on the people supporting the series. Have a web developer update your websites and keep it to date, look for feedback from the series runners and implement them as needed instead of holding up the iron fist. Use social media, local newspapers, local news radio, local news channels, podcasts and youtube adds to tell the world how great the series is. Use this media coverage to intice sponsors to provide purses or dicounts on parts for the series runners. Have constructors titles for all aspiring engineers to have something to fight for, or brag. These are all things that cost close to nothing to implement, but all require dedication, passion and a good governing body. In my own experience FV simply lacks the execution on everything i just mentioned. You want your series to grow then roll up your sleeves, set your ego aside and get the right tools for the job.
Oh and get with the times will ya, drums for brakes? LOL....FV isn't dead but the parts being used are as old as my grampa.........

[Mark Filip]

I apologize in advance if the following upsets anyone, the point of this thread is to find ways to get more butts in seats and therefore more cars at the races. There have been great ideas floating around but most require someone to execute them. And in this lies the problem. The racing series regardless of the country requiring the drivers to promote the sport is fundamentally flawed. If you want results then do like the other successful series and start treating it like a business, get a marketing team instead of taking the lazy way and pawn it off on the people supporting the series. Have a web developer update your websites and keep it to date, look for feedback from the series runners and implement them as needed instead of holding up the iron fist. Use social media, local newspapers, local news radio, local news channels, podcasts and youtube adds to tell the world how great the series is. Use this media coverage to intice sponsors to provide purses or dicounts on parts for the series runners. Have constructors titles for all aspiring engineers to have something to fight for, or brag. These are all things that cost close to nothing to implement, but all require dedication, passion and a good governing body. In my own experience FV simply lacks the execution on everything i just mentioned. You want your series to grow then roll up your sleeves, set your ego aside and get the right tools for the job.
Oh and get with the times will ya, drums for brakes? LOL....FV isn't dead but the parts being used are as old as my grampa.........

So when are you starting? Or have you?

Everyone has the answer but does nothing and just suggests that someone else does it.

[fvhopeful]

Markus
All good points.I understand you are hoping to start in the class.
The FTDA needs people with your enthusiasm an d skills .
I do hope you plan to join the club .to help execute our business plan
Cheers
Desmond

[nbrigido]

I apologize in advance if the following upsets anyone, the point of this thread is to find ways to get more butts in seats and therefore more cars at the races. There have been great ideas floating around but most require someone to execute them. And in this lies the problem. The racing series regardless of the country requiring the drivers to promote the sport is fundamentally flawed. If you want results then do like the other successful series and start treating it like a business, get a marketing team instead of taking the lazy way and pawn it off on the people supporting the series. Have a web developer update your websites and keep it to date, look for feedback from the series runners and implement them as needed instead of holding up the iron fist. Use social media, local newspapers, local news radio, local news channels, podcasts and youtube adds to tell the world how great the series is. Use this media coverage to intice sponsors to provide purses or dicounts on parts for the series runners. Have constructors titles for all aspiring engineers to have something to fight for, or brag. These are all things that cost close to nothing to implement, but all require dedication, passion and a good governing body. In my own experience FV simply lacks the execution on everything i just mentioned. You want your series to grow then roll up your sleeves, set your ego aside and get the right tools for the job.
Oh and get with the times will ya, drums for brakes? LOL....FV isn't dead but the parts being used are as old as my grampa.........

That was the purpose of starting the Thread. To get ideas, see what works, What other regions have done that are successful.

It is now up to each individual group to take this info (if they like) and put a plan together. From marketing to websites, sponsors and prize money.

More importantly, everything mentioned here is on a VOLUNTEER basis! which usually means we need people to help execute a plan that is put together.

"Rome was not built in a day, but we have to lay the first stone"

**Frank, that is not The Rolling Stones....

[Johan W]

So when are you starting? Or have you?

How can he start to promote if he try his best to get into a car and want to be part of this group? Can WE welcome and promote instead of forming an unwelcoming committee.

Everyone has the answer but does nothing and just suggests that someone else does it.

What do you suggest and what have you done?

I apologize in advance if the following upsets anyone

Unfortunately you have different personalities involved like any other sport...not everyone like the same spices on their food either.

Use social media, local newspapers, local news radio, local news channels, podcasts and youtube adds to tell the world how great the series is.

I guess that's how you found f1200??

Oh and get with the times will ya, drums for brakes? LOL....FV isn't dead but the parts being used are as old as my grampa.........

...and yes that's a veeerry sensitive issue for some of the dinos-don't-change crowd.
However there still some dinosaurs related animals alive and well...crocs still thrive.

My challenge go to fvracer27 and others. Let's see who introduce new drivers to formula Vee. I just bought another vee a few minutes ago(BRD) that's available for drivers to do their driving school. A new driver already added for next season...welcome to Dave Morgan that will have his first ever taste of f1200 and also first ever feel of tarmac on any race track. Lot's of exciting work await Dave.....

[Johan W]

That was the purpose of starting the Thread. To get ideas, see what works, What other regions have done that are successful.

It is now up to each individual group to take this info (if they like) and put a plan together. From marketing to websites, sponsors and prize money.

More importantly, everything mentioned here is on a VOLUNTEER basis! which usually means we need people to help execute a plan that is put together.

"Rome was not built in a day, but we have to lay the first stone"

**Frank, that is not The Rolling Stones....

The Newbie want to know a bit more about our group....updates would be welcome...same for the fb page. I notice I'm basically posting the most on the fb page and not knowing much of the f1200 group itself(although I'm involved/racing Vees over three decades now)

[nbrigido]

Discussions like this need to be move the the F1200 page. I would be more than happy to update you there.

This threaded was created for ideas and inputs, not to get into details about a specific group.

[Johan W]

Discussions like this need to be move the the F1200 page. I would be more than happy to update you there.

This threaded was created for ideas and inputs, not to get into details about a specific group.

...but there's more on Apex...that's where I picked up the vee to help and promote with success(see the previous posting). This in itself is a huge help in promoting vees and it's free...thanks to Doug I guess.

Why do you want to dilute and divert any discussion. I promoted and sponsored the Vee series in SA(Province of Free State) where we eventually had more Vees in one city(Welkom more then 20 vees in city the size of Oakville) then some regions in North America.

I was the editor for ExHaust Notes that published monthly news and reviews of Vee activity and driver stories. The spares shops and barber shops received copies that attracted many to the sport in general.

I never met you but appreciate your efforts.

[nbrigido]

Correct, thats why F1200's have a section in apexspeed...

[Mark Filip]

What do you suggest and what have you done?



...and yes that's a veeerry sensitive issue for some of the dinos-don't-change crowd.
However there still some dinosaurs related animals alive and well...crocs still thrive.

My challenge go to fvracer27 and others. Let's see who introduce new drivers to formula Vee. I just bought another vee a few minutes ago(BRD) that's available for drivers to do their driving school. A new driver already added for next season...welcome to Dave Morgan that will have his first ever taste of f1200 and also first ever feel of tarmac on any race track. Lot's of exciting work await Dave.....

http://www.nefv.org

People tend to speak before they know what they are talking about

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=190

Some of the threads in this forum may answer your questions

[Steve Bamford]

I apologize in advance if the following upsets anyone, the point of this thread is to find ways to get more butts in seats and therefore more cars at the races. There have been great ideas floating around but most require someone to execute them. And in this lies the problem. The racing series regardless of the country requiring the drivers to promote the sport is fundamentally flawed. If you want results then do like the other successful series and start treating it like a business, get a marketing team instead of taking the lazy way and pawn it off on the people supporting the series. Have a web developer update your websites and keep it to date, look for feedback from the series runners and implement them as needed instead of holding up the iron fist. Use social media, local newspapers, local news radio, local news channels, podcasts and youtube adds to tell the world how great the series is. Use this media coverage to intice sponsors to provide purses or dicounts on parts for the series runners. Have constructors titles for all aspiring engineers to have something to fight for, or brag. These are all things that cost close to nothing to implement, but all require dedication, passion and a good governing body. In my own experience FV simply lacks the execution on everything i just mentioned. You want your series to grow then roll up your sleeves, set your ego aside and get the right tools for the job.
Oh and get with the times will ya, drums for brakes? LOL....FV isn't dead but the parts being used are as old as my grampa.........

I thought all new accounts on Apexspeed were supposed to be legit accounts with legit names? Ontario is a pretty big area to list as where you live. Markus with no last name doesn't help out to much either. I guess whomever is posting this doesn't want to identify themselves and thus is using a made up account.

It's easy to hide behind a keyboard under a fake name. At least you know when I say something you know who it is coming from.

[Johan W]

http://www.nefv.org

People tend to speak before they know what they are talking about

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=190

Some of the threads in this forum may answer your questions

That's also one point I clearly stated numerous times...I don't know much if anything about North American Vees and statistics, politics etc. My experience getting into vees here may help others as I found it very difficult in Canada. Guy eventually with Lisa and then Bill Vallis made it easier. If my experience that's proven to be successful elsewhere means nothing...so be it. I only try my part to promote and have more then 10 vees in Ontario. I will see how the series go before I commit to any sponsorships for the Can-Am series that interest me.

I don't know you and if you have a good story to tell...do so.

[Johan W]

I thought all new accounts on Apexspeed were supposed to be legit accounts with legit names? Ontario is a pretty big area to list as where you live. Markus with no last name doesn't help out to much either. I guess whomever is posting this doesn't want to identify themselves and thus is using a made up account.

It's easy to hide behind a keyboard under a fake name. At least you know when I say something you know who it is coming from.

This I wish for dearly....it took a while before I realize that some I'm talking to are people I know and are friends with.

Thanks

Johan Wasserman

[Bill Bonow]

I thought all new accounts on Apexspeed were supposed to be legit accounts with legit names? Ontario is a pretty big area to list as where you live. Markus with no last name doesn't help out to much either. I guess whomever is posting this doesn't want to identify themselves and thus is using a made up account.

It's easy to hide behind a keyboard under a fake name. At least you know when I say something you know who it is coming from.

Steve,

Checked him out. No other user names under that IP. It sure seems like he is hiding something though. If really interested, I can "release the hounds" and get some info. Remember RadRog?

[Steve Bamford]

Steve,

Checked him out. No other user names under that IP. It sure seems like he is hiding something though. If really interested, I can "release the hounds" and get some info. Remember RadRog?

Sorry to get off topic but I did at least get to write goodbye to RadRog on one of his last posts before he disappeared forever. He was entertaining to say the least.

I am sure Markus whomever will be happy to add more info to his account. Funny email address for a Markus though. Makes me believe it is another person

[nbrigido]

That's also one point I clearly stated numerous times...I don't know much if anything about North American Vees and statistics, politics etc. My experience getting into vees here may help others as I found it very difficult in Canada. Guy eventually with Lisa and then Bill Vallis made it easier. If my experience that's proven to be successful elsewhere means nothing...so be it. I only try my part to promote and have more then 10 vees in Ontario. I will see how the series go before I commit to any sponsorships for the Can-Am series that interest me.

I don't know you and if you have a good story to tell...do so.

I think everyone has expressed their thoughts and ideas. One of them is about informing the general Public about vee's. That why I started another thread, summing the ideas.

Any newbie reading these posts, will have second thoughts, because now we are talking about the sky falling as well as personally challenging people.

BTW Ontario does have more than 10 Vee's