Is there a reason don't FV & FST run together more often?
Is there a reason don't FV & FST run together more often?
I think running the classes together is a great idea, however, I guaranty there will be issues with slow FST's getting the the way of fast FV's and slow FV's getting in the way of fast FST's Probably a split start would be beneficial.
We (FV's) currently have problems CF's getting in the way of the FV's along with FC's lapping us twice in one 25 min race. If the car counts keep falling then we will also be looking in our mirrors for FM's, FA, and who knows what else.
There is no perfect answer. I still feel that it is in the best interest of both classes to try and work together.
Scott
This of course would be a "Regional". As far as FV running in a group with 2 classes, you do it all the time. More often with 3 or 4 classes. No change there. However if you were to run at one of the FST/FFDA Series races and brought in 8 or 10 cars, (FST always has 10 or more there), we would have a group of 20 cars. No Regional registrar wants to turn that away and will go along way towards making us the group we want.Originally Posted by Steve Davis
Huh? You (FV) run with FF, F500, and others now. The only difference is you would likely now ONLY run with FST. Beside who "remembers" the winners of any fv or fst race beyond the next weekend.Either way, IMO you would have to look at 2 specific classes in 1 race. No one will every remember the winner of the "B" series. You would need a FST 1,2,3 and FV 1,2,3,
Even with our (FST) turnouts of only 10-15 cars, Robert Guhde is able to negotiate some very nice deals with the race officials. (group number, classes in group, etc.) There is lots of power in numbers..
IMO, this is the way to keep us FV and FST going strong. With 15 or 20 car fields race chairs are not going to want to schedule too many fender only events.
The problem is (again IMO), FV has no one that speaks for the group or can bring any consensus to the drivers. The above can't happen without it.
We almost ALWAYS run together. We have done it for 10+ years. We have had very few if any real issues. We have run both with split starts and normal starts. We would MUCH rather run with the Vees than the FFs. Slow FF's often affect our races..
.
Way too many choices in North America that's diluting the fields as someone said. Just got this flyer from SCCA...30 classes in road racing.
Last edited by Johan W; 12.05.14 at 7:14 PM.
So to answer Noel's question as the title of this thread asks, we need to eliminate a good number of classes to increase overall participation? I doubt it will happen but I think that would help.
Last edited by Steve Bamford; 12.06.14 at 9:46 AM.
Steve Bamford
You are both right; too many classes, 30 in total, 25 (I think) at the Run-Offs. I thought that the Majors program was supposed to rationalize this, but this doesn’t seem to have happened. Some classes at the 2013 Run-Offs started less than 10 cars, but they have big motor-homes, so that’s all right.
In North America it seems that you can turn up with a bastardised something-or-other and they will find a class for you, hence Greg’s Formula Alphabet. Look at Formula Libra is Canada, no one is really racing, just a bunch of mismatched cars, lapping. Elsewhere there are specific classes, so bring a car that complies with one of them or stay at home. If a class cannot sustain it’s numbers its killed off.
I agree with this line of thinking!!!!!!
Why are there so many classes? condense it down to 10 classes or less. More cars on the track is more fun for the spectators and the racers. Race days would get over faster and possibly be cheaper or at least it would allow for more track time.
This is a problem with the SCCA that forum talk is not going to solve
I've always thought this was a major problem with road racing since the first time I ever watched a SCCA event. I could not figure out why there were 3-4 winners in a group of 15 cars lol
Why don't you become the voice for the group. You have a very good grasp of the situation and you make a good argument.
What is the difference if a slow FF is in the race vs a lapped FV. Either way, it is the same obstacle with whom the leading drivers have to contend.
We mix FM (1 to 4 cars), FF (12 to 24 cars), FC ( 1 or 2 cars) FV (1 or 2 cars), FST (1 car) and DSR (1 to 3 cars).
We all deal with the same issues. Make room for the fast FM's and get around the FST
There are two issues. The first is the much faster cars approaching at much higher speeds. This is unsafe and has driven at least 3 fellow competitors into either switching to different run groups (AKA SRF) Or quiting altogether.
The other problem, which is worse IMO, is the slow CF (or whatever class) guy that is so slow in the corners yet so fast down the straight it ruins the entire race for the FV's. Now of course the slow CF guy is so slow that he is driving all by himself. His competitors are gone. So instead of pulling out of the way of the FV battle, he decides that he is going to race with the FV's. This is the problem! If he would just move over and let the FV race continue it would be all good, however, it never seems to be this way. There is a guy in our region that has had multiple protest filed against him this year but SCCA does nothing.......That's the real problem........ So the frustrated FV guys either find another venue, class, group, etc, to race with.
Scott
A lone FF decided he would dick around in front of an 18-car FV field during the last National at Nelson Ledges, until a notable FV driver did us all a favour and punted him off. When the FF driver complained about his broken car, he was told that he must understand, drum brakes aren’t as good as discs and the said FV driver then pointed out that he had plenty of spare noses if he should have further brake problems.
I encountered the same FF driver later in the season, again running on his own. This time he ran his race behind the Vees and collected his win.
Guy,
I believe it was Charlie Rodgers and myself who blocked a certain female CF driver from passing us down the back straight of Mid-Ohio, by hogging the entire track to prevent her from passing us and holding us up in the corners. Sometimes you have to do things you wish you hadn't but when the SCCA fails to do it's job, the drivers must step-in...Our ruse worked and we never saw her again for the entire race!
About a year later we both got into each other with our cars and she finally saw the light and retired from racing! I had nearly a half-dozen drivers come over and thank me for helping in her decision to retire.
Mark
88' Citation 002'
No thanks. I (nor anyone I know) could draw any consensus in the FV group. (Pretty obvious in this and other threads) (a shame)
See Diamond Formula Cars answer. That pretty much covers it. BTW, MOST of the time the CFC, FF, etc. driver is not to blame. He is just trying to learn and race like we all did. It is just the speed discrepancy (straights vs. corners) that hurt the FV's As he and Mark pointed out there ARE some CFC, etc. drivers that just don't get it and have to be talked to.What is the difference if a slow FF is in the race vs a lapped FV. Either way, it is the same obstacle with whom the leading drivers have to contend.
https://vimeo.com/111712654
This video is an example of what I am talking about.
This was my first time in this car and I was the only one in my class so I didn't get overly concerned about getting by this CF. If it was an actual race and I was battling with another FST things would have been different. I did eventually passed him later in the race and went on to turn a faster time.
After the race he came over to me and was very excited that we had this great race. Well, he has +20 more HP then me. We are not in the same class, it was not a race. This is the same guy that has been protested several times this year. I am all for him participating, God knows we need the entry's. I just want him to be respectful of the other classes that are on the track and get out of the way so you are not effecting someone else race.
Scott
The problem is that there are enough other groups to race with that if the SCCA did that, the odds are greater those drivers would just leave and reduce the number of members and entries, not sell their car and move to a different SCCA class. This is America, and just like Burger King, we want it Our Way.
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
Any driver who punted me off would get a kick in the head afterwards..been a different story if "SAID" FV driver injured or worse killed the other driver wouldnt it!!!!!!TOTALLY IRRISPONSIBLE BEHAVIOUR.All you had to do was get 18 drivers to go and tell the FF driver keep out of our way and dont block us etc or you will see us ALL ''after'' the race....NOT I repeat NOT during the race.
Hope you are both proud of yourselves,very classy behaviour in the dangerous sport of motor racing....was it because it was a female driver maybe?or jus because the person wasnt super fast top drivers like you twoGuy,
I believe it was Charlie Rodgers and myself who blocked a certain female CF driver from passing us down the back straight of Mid-Ohio, by hogging the entire track to prevent her from passing us and holding us up in the corners. Sometimes you have to do things you wish you hadn't but when the SCCA fails to do it's job, the drivers must step-in...Our ruse worked and we never saw her again for the entire race!
About a year later we both got into each other with our cars and she finally saw the light and retired from racing! I had nearly a half-dozen drivers come over and thank me for helping in her decision to retire.
Mark
88' Citation 002'
It was because she ruined countless races over the years and was dangerous in that she blocked and held everyone up. My father got airborne over her at Mid Ohio endangering his life and the others behind him because she broke on the front straight when the green flag flew. Some people have no business behind the wheel of a race car.Hope you are both proud of yourselves,very classy behaviour in the dangerous sport of motor racing....was it because it was a female driver maybe?or jus because the person wasnt super fast top drivers like you two
Before you judge so quickly you should actually understand the situation, it sounds like you've never had a faster class car hold you up. I have no respect for a driver that is in a faster classes that tries to race those who are in a different class. They have the right to be out there but not to ruin my race and split the pack up. It sounds like you haven't run up front which is why you have no credibility or experience with this......
I gotta defend some folks hereI don't think any of the above would risk life, limb or car purposely to teach the lady a lesson. I suspect an incident happened and they got the best of it. Thus winning the approval of the other drivers. I doubt that anyone who raced a lot at Mid-O or IRP (ORP) DIDN"T have or almost have an incident with this particular driver. Her typical times at Mid-O were 1:46+ in a very well prepped FF ! (Mid Pack Regional FV times) She was talked to many times by drivers and I know at least twice by stewards. She "removed" me from a one race and often screwed up any first lap she was in. (Typically qualifying mid pack in Vees and on the green getting to the corner first, only to stop with all the Vees behind her. As pointed out above, she had no Fords to race with so she raced the Vees.
BTW, I raced Mark many times and he was not one to do anything dangerous on the track. I have never heard anything negative about Charlie either.
Guys this thread has run it's course, and then some. Time to move on... This thread has been closed.
Chris
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
