What do WE need to do...

[RNoble]

My 2 cents... As the parent of one of the new younger drivers in the Northeast region, prior to 11 months ago, I had never heard of Formula Vee. I had been involved in dirt track roundy round racing for quite a few years, but never really thought about SCCA road racing or ever looked into it. My son found Vees on his own last winter (via the inter-webs) and approached me telling me that this was something he wanted to do. The cost was one of the factors in HIS selection of this class along with the open wheeled aspect. After much debate, we pulled the trigger last January, bought a car and attended most of the NER events this past summer.

One of the ideas mentioned very early in this thread was mall/car shows. Back in the dirt track days, the local track used to hold an annual car show over the winter at one of the malls. They would fill the mall with cars from modifieds to street stocks. They were trying to fill seats, but its a good opportunity to get your "brand" in front of people, talk to the kids and parents and drum up some exposure (face to face).

IMO, social media is ok, but if your not already involved in racing, like racing, searching for racing stuff, I would think that gaining new drivers via this avenue alone is going to be difficult. I am somewhat contradicting my own experience with that statement, but my son was specifically searching for racing that he could get involved in, at a reasonable cost, and somewhere along the way he found FV. I think this was shortly after he saw the movie Rush.

I have to give props to the NER for holding the open wheel driving experience for vees this past season. Isn't that what the car dealerships are doing do when they let you take the car out for a test drive? Get them in the seat to convince them to make the purchase. If 2 of the ten drivers who participated end up with cars next year, a 20% return is not too hard to take. Following this type of event is where the social media stuff, youtube videos and websites kick in, so the participants can all show their friends what they drove last weekend the pass the word along.

[Johan W]

New England hasn’t changed tires. I was just the Vee Challenge series that experimented with the Falkens.

Guy

My apology, however I can only comment on my experience at Watkins Glen and their positive attitude and drive to get more drivers in their/our series.

What concern me most is the one or few negative comments (open to all to digest) that make up an "un-welcoming" cloud for the outsider.

[crypt0zink]

The VSCDA race schedule for 2015 is out. Our club has a strong field of 25+ vintage Vees racing each weekend and a excellent Driver School for new drivers.

http://www.vscda.org/index.php

Driver's School, at GingerMan, April 30th & May 1st
GingerMan Spring Brake, May 2nd & 3rd
Blackhawk Vintage Classic, June 18th - 21st
Vintage Grand Prix Au Grattan XXIX, August 13th - 16th
Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXX, September 17th - 20th

[Steve Bamford]

The VSCDA race schedule for 2015 is out. Our club has a strong field of 25+ vintage Vees racing each weekend and a excellent Driver School for new drivers.

http://www.vscda.org/index.php

Driver's School, at GingerMan, April 30th & May 1st
GingerMan Spring Brake, May 2nd & 3rd
Blackhawk Vintage Classic, June 18th - 21st
Vintage Grand Prix Au Grattan XXIX, August 13th - 16th
Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXX, September 17th - 20th

Sorry, slightly off topic but what makes a FV Vintage? Engine is still the same, beam, steering, etc...is the frame the only difference?

I guess I am asking as to me it seems all FV's are pretty much vintage so why not all run together. Or have the improvements made older cars so uncompetitive it would hurt the vintage car counts?

[grapefarmeral]

Steve,

I think suspension is the dividing factor...Vintage is non zero roll...with a few exceptions (I think)..

[Rolling Stone]

Noel,

When you say 1600, you mean Formula Ford / Formula F or F1600 as it is known in Ontario, not Formula First (FST).

Unfortunately, in Ontario F1200 (FV) finds itself competing in the open-wheel market for new drivers with a very strong Formula Ford series. In my experience elsewhere in North America Formula Ford is nowhere near as strong at regional level. In New England for example it is almost non-existent.

Guy.

F/Ford series in Ont/Que is very strong,but they are drivers with $$$$$,this shows there are old/young people with money who naturally are not going to race vees if they can afford FF,we would all race FF if we could afford it.FV/F1200s target is anyone who wants to race but has a limited budget(In most cases),making the class KNOWN is the problem,I had never heard of the class till I went to Mosport in early 90s and walking around started talking to drivers of all the cars and saw a Vee for the first time.I knew F/Fords as I am from the UK originally and its a BIG class there,I knew (loved) Lotus 7s,MGs etc in Libre class,as I said tho never heard of vees till then and i loved racing...I was 50+ yrs old back then,retired from F1200 now at 67 but I miss driving,the comraderie was unbelievable a very unusual thing nowdays in sport at any level.looking forward to 2015 season and we will be there at Mosport etc to watch all the good friends we made race again..and see if Michael Iamundi can do a SCHUEY!!and make it 7 championships.

[G.B.]

Yes, Ford (F1600, Formula F) is more expensive, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread many of the costs are the same:

Cost of travel to the circuit.
Cost of tow vehicle and trailer.
Entry fees (slightly more in Ontario, but usually the same).
Cost of motels.
Cost of fire suit, helmet, HANS device etc.
Cost of race school, license, physical etc.

If you can afford all that, why not for a little extra run a Ford?

[G.B.]

Steve,

I think suspension is the dividing factor...Vintage is non zero roll...with a few exceptions (I think)..

Fans

[Steve Bamford]

Yes, Ford (F1600, Formula F) is more expensive, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread many of the costs are the same:

Cost of travel to the circuit.
Cost of tow vehicle and trailer.
Entry fees (slightly more in Ontario, but usually the same).
Cost of motels.
Cost of fire suit, helmet, HANS device etc.
Cost of race school, license, physical etc.

If you can afford all that, why not for a little extra run a Ford?

Agreed but crash damage specifically is much higher. Tire expense is also higher compared to FV. Purchase cost of a competitive car are much higher then FV.

FV is also a great way to enter open wheel racing, when you make a mistake in FV & lose momentum you surely pay for it. Wear & tear is much better with FV then FF.

[Steve Bamford]

Fans

So fans & Suspension are different?

[Jnovak]

I remember the first time I drove a Vee. I had been racing sedans with some serious success and thought I might make it to TransAm. Then finances got really bad and I was out of the seat for a couple of years.

A buddy of mine asked me to try his Vee on for size and I could drive it at Waterford. Well the first session on the track was GREAT. I got out of the car laughing so hard because I had NEVER had so much fun in a car. The smile is still on my face every time I think about it.

I decided I had to build a car ASAP. I bought Denny Ura's crashed frame from the Runoffs of a couple years B4. It took about a week of hard work just to straighten the frame. I chased down all the junkyard parts and old used bodywork I could find and built the car over the summer. My first SCCA race was at Blackhawk Farms. I qualified 6th out of 69 Vees and had a great race until the crash.

This story could be MUCH longer but I will not go on. Suffice to say that I have never built or owned or driven anything but open wheel cars since that very first day at Waterford.

You cannot go wrong with any FVEE. It is the true definition of low cost racing and fun.

Get started and get hooked.

[crypt0zink]

So fans & Suspension are different?

Vintage Vees are pre 1976 (new rule), working fans, fan shrouds, generator, 2 rear shocks, original bodywork, treaded tires (Dunlops or Hoosiers).

2014 Formula Vee Class Spec:
http://www.monoposto.com/pdf%20Files...h_revision.pdf

Racing vintage Vees is a great way to start racing. The VSCDA offers a very affordable Driver School and one on one instruction.

http://www.vintagevees.com/

http://www.vscda.org/about/school.php

[dc]

No way todays kid with current high unemployment levels and low salaries is going to be able to afford SCCA. It is all they can do to own and operate a street car.

The unemployment rate is currently 5.8% nationally, but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.



As for the question of WHY you need to target an audience, this is simple marketing. You cannot spray to all fields and hope to make all ships rise with the tide. You aren't promoting a class that can be appealing to all.

Once you figure out what you want the class to look like in the next 5, 10 or 15 years, you can determine who you want to be populating that class. For example, targeting empty nesters or retirees logistically puts you in the same predicament in 10 years when that group is too long in the tooth. And that's assuming that the parts supply chain is fixed before then.

I'm not saying that the only people you want entering the class are of one group, but you have to focus on a single area and target that area in order for any marketing to be affective. Just bringing a race car to a car show or cruise night is great publicity, but in the big picture, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

This class NEEDS younger participants, plain and simple. While teens might not be a smart target, appealing to millennials or college grad twenty-somethings might be a good place to start. Look to markets where income is not a deciding factor (don't forget how much money is spent today on the sport compact performance market). Some of those guys could be RunOff's capable race packages with what they have spent ON TOP of what they paid for the car.

How about going after the water-cooled VW enthusiast on any of the major VW enthusiast forums? A simple banner ad? Talk to Jamie and the guys at VWvortex about doing a running column or article. The interested eyes you would have with something like that would dwarf any local car show on the planet.

Work with the FSAE groups to offer opportunities during and after their collegiate challenges. You have a whole audience of smart, enthusiastic and interested college graduates just looking for a place to continue their experience from FSAE.

Approach corporate involvement that could help both programs—like the TireRack. Come up with an off the "rack" spec wheel and tire package for the class that could bring a heavy hitter to sponsor the class, and bring real eyes to the program. They have their own test track in South Bend, and the possibilities for FV "test drives" could put a lot of butts on the grids across the country.


You have to do something very different to get any movement of the needle here. And what is needed is not 20th century marketing. Handing out flyers at car shows is a waste of energy and won't accomplish anything. The class needs a shot of adrenaline through the sternum, not a manicure.

[Johan W]

The unemployment rate is currently 5.8% nationally, but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.



As for the question of WHY you need to target an audience, this is simple marketing. You cannot spray to all fields and hope to make all ships rise with the tide. You aren't promoting a class that can be appealing to all.

Once you figure out what you want the class to look like in the next 5, 10 or 15 years, you can determine who you want to be populating that class. For example, targeting empty nesters or retirees logistically puts you in the same predicament in 10 years when that group is too long in the tooth. And that's assuming that the parts supply chain is fixed before then.

I'm not saying that the only people you want entering the class are of one group, but you have to focus on a single area and target that area in order for any marketing to be affective. Just bringing a race car to a car show or cruise night is great publicity, but in the big picture, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

This class NEEDS younger participants, plain and simple. While teens might not be a smart target, appealing to millennials or college grad twenty-somethings might be a good place to start. Look to markets where income is not a deciding factor (don't forget how much money is spent today on the sport compact performance market). Some of those guys could be RunOff's capable race packages with what they have spent ON TOP of what they paid for the car.

How about going after the water-cooled VW enthusiast on any of the major VW enthusiast forums? A simple banner ad? Talk to Jamie and the guys at VWvortex about doing a running column or article. The interested eyes you would have with something like that would dwarf any local car show on the planet.

Work with the FSAE groups to offer opportunities during and after their collegiate challenges. You have a whole audience of smart, enthusiastic and interested college graduates just looking for a place to continue their experience from FSAE.

Approach corporate involvement that could help both programs—like the TireRack. Come up with an off the "rack" spec wheel and tire package for the class that could bring a heavy hitter to sponsor the class, and bring real eyes to the program. They have their own test track in South Bend, and the possibilities for FV "test drives" could put a lot of butts on the grids across the country.


You have to do something very different to get any movement of the needle here. And what is needed is not 20th century marketing. Handing out flyers at car shows is a waste of energy and won't accomplish anything. The class needs a shot of adrenaline through the sternum, not a manicure.

There's dealers that will sponsor and help if you get the water-cooled crowd involved...that unfortunately will have a barage of negative comments flying at mach 1.5. My water cooled vee is available if anybody want to try or use on a show...will be next year on show at a dealers showroom in Oakville that want to use it as a promotion.

Maybe try to get the vee's onto dealer floors for every one and all to see and put the racing link/web site details on the car.

[Jnovak]

There's dealers that will sponsor and help if you get the water-cooled crowd involved...that unfortunately will have a barage of negative comments flying at mach 1.5. My water cooled vee is available if anybody want to try or use on a show...will be next year on show at a dealers showroom in Oakville that want to use it as a promotion.

Maybe try to get the vee's onto dealer floors for every one and all to see and put the racing link/web site details on the car.

What does it weigh and how much power?

[blackhole]

For three years 2010-2012 I took our car to my former local karting track (which is the largest karting club in Ontario) and put it on display. BTW the race i took it too was The Oktoberfest Grand Prix. The largest single Day Karting Event in Canada. People come from all over Ontario to race this event. I got little to no interest. We did something where one of the top 5 finishers from the SR classes (15+ years old) in that race would get an opportunity to get a free test day with Bill Vallis. For 3 years a person came out and drove around a Vallis Motorsport BRD at the DDT track at Mosport. But thats all it was. I tried promoting but after 3 years with not much interest I stopped.

Here are some of the comments I got while I was there.

"Entry fees are that high... wow"

"Do you win anything?" "trophy"

'In oval racing you get cash prizes even if you don't win"

"I heard you can't find alot of the parts anymore"

"On top of buying a car I need to spend how much on extra things like a special helmet, suit, HANS, Racing License etc..."

"Wow you go that fast on drum brakes? Isn't that kinda dangerous"

"ill go oval racing it's cheaper and not as time consuming" (saturday nights only)

"they're kinda ugly"

Im sure there were many more I can't remember anymore though.

Most of these people werent "tire kickers" Most of them ended up buying some sort of oval car. TQ Midgets, Canadian Vintage Modifieds, Thunder car.

[racerdad2]

I have friends who've quit karting to go local Roundy-Round racing because it's cheaper and just a weekly Saturday commitment.

Ya gotta love open wheel road racing to commit to the prep & travel time.

Fortunately, I have a race buddy putting together a rental FV for next season. I'm going to do my best to squeeze into it next year. The cars do look fun to drive. Gotta give it a go. Hope you Vee guys figure out how to keep the class alive & well, just like the rest of us

[mikehinkle]

Oval track is a different crowd. It can be a lot cheaper plus you can race every weekend even multiple times at different tracks if you want. Some of the entry level cars require so little safety gear It's crazy. I've seen people wearing dirt bike helmets with no neck protection usually wearing a dirty old sfi single layer suit. No gloves or racing shoes. Goto your local oval track and check it out.
I don't think there the target audience. Not because they don't spend as much or couldn't afford it but just because it's not the same type of racing there interested in.
Autocross racers like turning both ways and like cars that handle. There is also 2 different karting crowds for that matter. Oval track karts are much more popular around me.
Did those who mentioned bringing there vee to a karting event/show bring them to a oval track event or a road event? The road karters in the club near me are a middle aged or older crowd for the most part. That's another event I think we, the north east crowd, should try to set something up with.

Here's a link to there site if anyone's interested in checking it out.
http://nhka.net
I'll get together with the guys from nefv.org and see if we can arrange something with them and the previously mentioned autocross club.

[Amon]

Not all dirt track oval racing is inexpensive. I know of a local family who have more
money into one engine than both of our FV's sitting in our garage, and have 2 more
engines in their shop etc....There was a karter from our home town who's father
supposively spent $40 - 60K in one year racing with the WKA, so we might be more
expensive than some, but wayyy less than many...

Mark

[Michael_Clark]

Approach corporate involvement that could help both programs—like the TireRack. Come up with an off the "rack" spec wheel and tire package for the class that could bring a heavy hitter to sponsor the class, and bring real eyes to the program. They have their own test track in South Bend, and the possibilities for FV "test drives" could put a lot of butts on the grids across the country.


You have to do something very different to get any movement of the needle here. And what is needed is not 20th century marketing. Handing out flyers at car shows is a waste of energy and won't accomplish anything. The class needs a shot of adrenaline through the sternum, not a manicure.

Like this?




Now you're just talking crazy.
.

[veefan]

Doug is spot on, this is all about marketing, he's totally right.

you need to target an audience

How about asking the SCCA for newly signed members and targeting them?
AHHHH maybe they have already considered racing but don't know how or where to start... get some seriously interested people via direct response and then MENTOR THEM ( with current FV racers) into formula vee?

[mysteriousracerx]

I'd say the issue really seems to be with the fact that there's no real marketing for FV which could be solved by having a mission statement and moving on from there. If it weren't for my dad being a massive fan of all things racing especially open-wheel and the fact that Keke Rosberg is one of my favorite drivers, I don't think I would have ever heard of FV. Like someone said previously, you see dirt track/late model stock cars in every mall in the US, but where are the open-wheelers? The last time I saw an open-wheeled racer in that type of setting was the early nineties when I was supposed to see Nigel Mansell and Mario Andretti at K-Mart. Andretti never showed, but Mansell was one of the nicest human beings I've ever met. He even let my little sister sit on his lap to take a picture with us. Sorry, I went off on a tangent there.....
Until FV figures out what their target market is and how they want to advertise based on this, FV will continue to have problems and dwindling numbers.

[veefan]

Guerilla Marketing!!!

This is about class survival!

The SCCA can't even figure out how to market ITSELF!

If you care about a CLASS of racing you're on your own~

[racerdad2]

I'll check with our website developer and see if we can't get links to our seperate open wheel classes with a brief explanation of each class. FV holds a favored spot in my memory bank. It was FV that put open wheel racing on my bucket list over 40 years ago.

[mysteriousracerx]

What would really help is a centralized FV website where you could separate by country and then region. We could also add information about different schools available, good places to buy safety equipment, lists of current drivers and car type, and even links to this site would be a good idea. I'm sure there's also plenty of other things we could add that would be most helpful.

[Rolling Stone]

Yes, Ford (F1600, Formula F) is more expensive, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread many of the costs are the same:

Cost of travel to the circuit.
Cost of tow vehicle and trailer.
Entry fees (slightly more in Ontario, but usually the same).
Cost of motels.
Cost of fire suit, helmet, HANS device etc.
Cost of race school, license, physical etc.

If you can afford all that, why not for a little extra run a Ford?

Until you get the bill to repair a damaged FF

[nbrigido]

What would really help is a centralized FV website where you could separate by country and then region. We could also add information about different schools available, good places to buy safety equipment, lists of current drivers and car type, and even links to this site would be a good idea. I'm sure there's also plenty of other things we could add that would be most helpful.

One of my points earlier on was about each region cross-marketing with all the others. This will give potential racers to find different areas, different tracks, see how large the community is. Someone wanting to join any grown, wants to know they are making the right decision, if they see everyone together, even if it is through links, it makes everyone more powerful.

I personally feel we should all have active links to engine builders, parts suppliers, key people in FV/F1200. Making things easier, just makes us stronger.

Vallis motor sports put out some youtube videos on How To's" for some of the required maintenance on a "FV" great help to potential drivers.

BUT, We need to get people to the sites, we need the Bait..

[nbrigido]

The unemployment rate is currently 5.8% nationally, but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.



As for the question of WHY you need to target an audience, this is simple marketing. You cannot spray to all fields and hope to make all ships rise with the tide. You aren't promoting a class that can be appealing to all.

Once you figure out what you want the class to look like in the next 5, 10 or 15 years, you can determine who you want to be populating that class. For example, targeting empty nesters or retirees logistically puts you in the same predicament in 10 years when that group is too long in the tooth. And that's assuming that the parts supply chain is fixed before then.

I'm not saying that the only people you want entering the class are of one group, but you have to focus on a single area and target that area in order for any marketing to be affective. Just bringing a race car to a car show or cruise night is great publicity, but in the big picture, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

This class NEEDS younger participants, plain and simple. While teens might not be a smart target, appealing to millennials or college grad twenty-somethings might be a good place to start. Look to markets where income is not a deciding factor (don't forget how much money is spent today on the sport compact performance market). Some of those guys could be RunOff's capable race packages with what they have spent ON TOP of what they paid for the car.

How about going after the water-cooled VW enthusiast on any of the major VW enthusiast forums? A simple banner ad? Talk to Jamie and the guys at VWvortex about doing a running column or article. The interested eyes you would have with something like that would dwarf any local car show on the planet.

Work with the FSAE groups to offer opportunities during and after their collegiate challenges. You have a whole audience of smart, enthusiastic and interested college graduates just looking for a place to continue their experience from FSAE.

Approach corporate involvement that could help both programs—like the TireRack. Come up with an off the "rack" spec wheel and tire package for the class that could bring a heavy hitter to sponsor the class, and bring real eyes to the program. They have their own test track in South Bend, and the possibilities for FV "test drives" could put a lot of butts on the grids across the country.


You have to do something very different to get any movement of the needle here. And what is needed is not 20th century marketing. Handing out flyers at car shows is a waste of energy and won't accomplish anything. The class needs a shot of adrenaline through the sternum, not a manicure.

Doug, you bring up a lot of good points, but the target audience, I still think needs to be a broad spectrum.

From everything i have read, people already involved in racing is not as much of an issue, as we would need to promote ourselves through the Web and at race events. It those that want to race but don't know where to start or what to start in.

Has anyone tried promoting to car clubs, for the "middle age Crowd, with disposable income" Porsche club, BMW club,....People that probably already gone trough track days in 75-150K cars that maybe want to really race..if so any success?

[nbrigido]

Agreed but crash damage specifically is much higher. Tire expense is also higher compared to FV. Purchase cost of a competitive car are much higher then FV.

FV is also a great way to enter open wheel racing, when you make a mistake in FV & lose momentum you surely pay for it. Wear & tear is much better with FV then FF.

Which make VEE the perfect alternative, if they know we are there through promotions and marketing, those who cannot afford the FF have another open wheel option.

Assistance from SCCA/CASC promoting the classes benefits the organizations as well with increased car counts and membership.

[dc]

Doug, you bring up a lot of good points, but the target audience, I still think needs to be a broad spectrum.

Ask some of my clients how well that works. It's not a very effective way to market any product, let alone one with a very narrow audience.

I'll leave it at this—there are proven contemporary methods of marketing a product—whether it's tires, cat food, kitchen appliances or recreational sports. And, as technology and the way people accept new ideas change, you have to change with them, or you will be left behind. I mean that in a marketing sense and in a formula car class structure sense.

What you are doing now is NOT working. Continuing to do the same things while expecting it to give you a different result, is, well you know... the Chicago Bears.

[Mark Filip]

Everyone has a solution but I see no one doing anything.

In the northeast we have done something and it's working, maybe is not "the correct method" or the "proven affective method" but it's working.

[Mark Filip]

Ask some of my clients how well that works. It's not a very effective way to market any product, let alone one with a very narrow audience.

So your saying FV has a very narrow audience and you want us to target a smaller audience within the already narrow audience?

[Steve Bamford]

What you are doing now is NOT working. Continuing to do the same things while expecting it to give you a different result, is, well you know... the Chicago Bears.

for us North of the border in F1200 substitute Chicago Bears for Toronto Maple Leaf's & we will understand your reference better.

[problemchild]

The few areas that still have good well-supported FV racing have 2 dominant characteristics.

Good race tracks in highly populated areas.
AND
A core group of dedicated hardworking racers who are actively promoting and recruiting.


Doug's suggestion of reworking the product to suit target markets is applicable until you consider that an overwhelming majority of the current national FV community is committed to the status quo. Reworking the class means Starting a new class!

Most racing groups lose atleast 10% of their community every year, as do most recreational communities. People get sick, lose jobs, get new jobs, lose interest, spend more time with their families, etc. That means you need to attract a new 10% just to maintain.

The best way, as it has always been, is to work with your local racer buddies to recruit new racers to the class.

Perhaps the best target audience would be mid-life crisis males, recently divorced with grown children.

[dc]

So your saying FV has a very narrow audience and you want us to target a smaller audience within the already narrow audience?

Read my posts again, you're missing the point. Belligerence has gotten FV to the place it is now. You can listen to help or choose to ignore it. It's your choice.

You are trying to attract new racers to your group, are you not? Unless you don't want new competitors in FV, then continue down the same path, by all means.

Your targeted audience is OUTSIDE of the people who currently are your typical FV core. You have to focus on the strengths of the class (relatively low entry costs, skill building as a driver), while strengthening the things that are weak (parts supply, assumed lack of technology).

We watch at least one new potential road racer every week join the forums with grandiose ideas of moving from their prepped trackday sports car right into an F1000. Why are they seeking out these forums for an FB? Wings, motorcycle engines, sexy looking cars, speed, paddle shifters and the lure of driving a "real" race car. Once they find out they have no business in a car like that, and the costs that are involved, they are usually looking for something more sensible to enter road racing in.

Why shouldn't it be in a FV? The opportunities are there, but you have to prove it to these interested potential racers that it is worth their time to jump into a Vee.

[dc]

Doug's suggestion of reworking the product to suit target markets is applicable until you consider that an overwhelming majority of the current national FV community is committed to the status quo. Reworking the class means Starting a new class!

Greg, I'm not suggesting that the class needs to completely change, I'm merely suggesting that if you want to connect to people who are comfortable with video game controllers and iPads, you can't be posting paper bulletins in the entrance of the grocery store. Knowhatimean?

Has nothing to do with the car (mostly), and everything to do with your effort to connect with a different generation than your own.

[Mark Filip]

Read my posts again, you're missing the point. Belligerence has gotten FV to the place it is now. You can listen to help or choose to ignore it. It's your choice.

Listen to what? People that are not in FV anymore, never have been or people that have a agenda to improve another class? You have me confussed with someone else.... I am 1 of a very small group that has chosen not to listen and do something.

You are trying to attract new racers to your group, are you not? Unless you don't want new competitors in FV, then continue down the same path, by all means.

We are not going down that same path... we are making a push to increase numbers in our area and we are doing just fine. I along with everyone else in this area can not be the driving force for all regions, we can help and share what has worked for us but other people need to step up and make it happen.

Your targeted audience is OUTSIDE of the people who currently are your typical FV core. You have to focus on the strengths of the class (relatively low entry costs, skill building as a driver), while strengthening the things that are weak (parts supply, assumed lack of technology).

We target anyone that wants to race no matter who they are.... it does not matter. I think having a larger group to accept as FV racers is a good thing.

We watch at least one new potential road racer every week join the forums with grandiose ideas of moving from their prepped trackday sports car right into an F1000. Why are they seeking out these forums for an FB? Wings, motorcycle engines, sexy looking cars, speed, paddle shifters and the lure of driving a "real" race car. Once they find out they have no business in a car like that, and the costs that are involved, they are usually looking for something more sensible to enter road racing in.

Why shouldn't it be in a FV? The opportunities are there, but you have to prove it to these interested potential racers that it is worth their time to jump into a Vee.

I agree with you 100% on this and that's what we try to do. Have a look at our website. Remember I'm no web designer and as a group we are limited on funds to have a proper site built but I think it does the job.

http://www.nefv.org

[Hardingfv32]

'I don't know why people want to get to the so-called young generation. Why do they want to do that? Is it to sell them something? Most of these kids haven't got any money.'

'I'd rather get to the 70-year-old guy who's got plenty of cash. So, there's no point trying to reach these kids because they won't buy any of the products here….'

Bernie Ecclestone

[problemchild]

Greg, I'm not suggesting that the class needs to completely change, I'm merely suggesting that if you want to connect to people who are comfortable with video game controllers and iPads, you can't be posting paper bulletins in the entrance of the grocery store. Knowhatimean?

Has nothing to do with the car (mostly), and everything to do with your effort to connect with a different generation than your own.

I agree. There needs to be a balance. Some groups go the other way. We race with one group that is updating on twitter and instagram, but does not update their website with results in days, never mind minutes. The Formula Promotions group does the best job of providing access through a wide range of media that both kids and their grandparents can follow.

The FV community is about the worse at sharing race results. How often have I checked this site on a Sunday nite or Monday morning to see what happened at an event. No report, yet I see people online who were there. The first step has to be sharing info amongst ourselves.

[Steve Davis]

What would really help is a centralized FV website where you could separate by country and then region. We could also add information about different schools available, good places to buy safety equipment, lists of current drivers and car type, and even links to this site would be a good idea. I'm sure there's also plenty of other things we could add that would be most helpful.

We HAVE a 'centralized' site - more or less. The Committee and myself have been managing http://www.FormulaVee.us and I do what I can to keep up info on the site. There are quite a few links to builders, parts (dwindling), and various groups across the country. It is also the "home" of the FV Registry.

If anyone has better web skills than I and would like to help, I'm open to it.