FV at Laguna Runoffs ??

[Daryl DeArman]

SCCA could take a lesson from NASCAR: the car the fans see take the checkered flag is ALWAYS the winner of the race, regardless of what transpires in tech. They never change the results after the fact. That's what fines and suspensions are for.

Uh....no thank you. That's the biggest issue I have with NASCRAP and what turned me off from them many years ago.

Have a bunch of pissed off fans go home to find out that their hero was tossed for cheating and you'll curtail the cheating.

The fines and penalties aren't, on average, large enough to be an effective deterrent. Have the Pepsi Home Depot Bass Pro Shops Chevrolet sit out the next race with all the fans who already bought tickets pissed off that their favorite driver isn't going to be racing and you will encourage people to fix their program.

Going home a "winner" only to be fined $100K-200K the next race while your crew chief has to make calls from his cell phone doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

[smsazzy]

Two big issues with that. Fines? Really? So somebody like Terran who was relying on a 3rd party engine builder to give him an engine has to pay a fine? Does he sue his engine builder? That is a total nightmare scenario.

Second, why not just intentionally cheat then so you win the title and then who cares? Sure, I had a 1600cc motor, but I was the champ! Had to sit out a year, but who cares? I get to tell all my buddies at the bar I'm the national champion.

The current DQ system is the best and most realistic option we have in amateur racing.

[Daryl DeArman]

Two big issues with that. Fines? Really? So somebody like Terran who was relying on a 3rd party engine builder to give him an engine has to pay a fine? Does he sue his engine builder? That is a total nightmare scenario.

Second, why not just intentionally cheat then so you win the title and then who cares? Sure, I had a 1600cc motor, but I was the champ! Had to sit out a year, but who cares? I get to tell all my buddies at the bar I'm the national champion.

The current DQ system is the best and most realistic option we have in amateur racing.

Agreed.

If you were disagreeing with me, I was suggesting the fines in NASCAR aren't big enough to be a deterrent and the last thing we need is the winner going home the winner, no matter what.

I'd suggest that Terran and others paid a large enough penalty with their DQ's and all the time, money, effort put into the entire campaign. I'd also suggest that some drivers' upset about being DQ'd (especially in the SM situation) would take their future business elsewhere.

[craigs]

Had to sit out a year, but who cares? I get to tell all my buddies at the bar I'm the national champion.

Wait a second - no one else does that now?

[Matt King]

The current DQ system is the best and most realistic option we have in amateur racing.

Yeah, except that SCCA can't get its act together in tech and rules making and ends up looking like a bunch of clowns when they DQ the top eight in SM and and whole podium in FV over vague, poorly written rules that are even more poorly interpreted by tech officials. And this is hardly the first time. Every year it seems there is a huge drama in tech usually resulting from the inability of a gaggle of supposed experts to use a ruler.

[craigs]

That's what is great about the SCCA. It's a club. Don't like the way rules are written then make proposals and or work your way up the ladder to the crb. Don't like how tech is doing their job? Volunteer to be in tech and work your way up. Tough to fire the volunteers that spend their free time outside of work and family supporting our race habit.

[gbmetcalf]

like this idea

G.

So why not implement a slightly better flowing spec manifold that costs a couple hundred bucks or so, and a spec restrictor plate for $20, that chokes that flow down to be about the same as a top manifold today.

The result would be, the serious competitor has to spend a couple hundred bucks for a runoffs quality intake, but the regional guy who doesn't want to is not required to. They're probably only 1 or so additional HP down from that top guy than they were before. However, the spec manifold becomes the part to have.

Plus, the part is solid, not foil thin and prone to break. A manifold that lasts nearly forever, and doesn't require updating.

Win-Win solution. Eliminates $1000+ manifolds, increases HP slightly

[Speed Sport Engineering]

We need some comic relief.

When I got out of my car after T5 incident on the first lap I was handed a bottle of water. I took a few sips. Then a corner marshal came up and put her arm around me and handed me another bottle of water.

Corner marshal - "I'm here for you to vent on"
Me - "Thanks, but I'm ok I think. But what am I supposed to do with another bottle of water...I made it 5 corners...look at me - I'm not even sweating yet."
Marshal - "I thought you might want to throw it at someone."
Me - " Ha! But there is this giant fence in my way."
Marshal - "I thought drivers were creative?"

It was a comforting conversation considering the circumstance. I then managed to accidently kick over the stations cooler of ice water. I offered the bottle of water back.

[Agitator]

Yeah, except that SCCA can't get its act together in tech and rules making and ends up looking like a bunch of clowns when they DQ the top eight in SM and and whole podium in FV over vague, poorly written rules that are even more poorly interpreted by tech officials. And this is hardly the first time. Every year it seems there is a huge drama in tech usually resulting from the inability of a gaggle of supposed experts to use a ruler.

I'm gonna get on a soapbox.

WE, the Formula Vee community, allowed this crap to happen. Blame the tech folks all you want, but the manifold issue got out of hand a decade ago, and nobody did crap about it...except CONFORM. I don't read the GCR every year, but tell me how many times there has been an amendment regarding manifolds??? All of a sudden, WE decided it was ok to start machining them to ridiculous proportions - in my opinion, not within the spirit or intent of the rules.

Right before the last race I drove in 2005, I took our engine in to be rebuilt. I had dinged the manifold when I had someone climb over the back of me in a previous race. The only other manifold we had was sitting on an old engine (That, when last run 15+ years before sat on the FRONT ROW at the Runoffs). Our engine builder told me it was "puny". I racked my brain to understand what had changed, because as far as I knew the rulebook hadn't been rewritten.

I also don't understand how WE let fairings appear on trailing arms over a decade ago. Where does it say in the GCR that it was EVER legal? The trailing arms on my car are STRUCTURALLY aerodynamic, because, as we read the rules, that's the only way it would be legal. However, WE the Formula Vee community) just looked the other way, and all of a sudden everyone started showing up fairings that made no attempt to be structural. Funny how it took a "new" rule just last month to make them illegal right before the biggest race of the year.

WE push the rules because WE race cars. However, WE are responsible for some of the things that are happening to the class.

[Jnovak]

Well said James.

[Daryl DeArman]

We need some comic relief.

When I got out of my car after T5 incident on the first lap I was handed a bottle of water. I took a few sips. Then a corner marshal came up and put her arm around me and handed me another bottle of water.

Corner marshal - "I'm here for you to vent on"
Me - "Thanks, but I'm ok I think. But what am I supposed to do with another bottle of water...I made it 5 corners...look at me - I'm not even sweating yet."
Marshal - "I thought you might want to throw it at someone."
Me - " Ha! But there is this giant fence in my way."
Marshal - "I thought drivers were creative?"

It was a comforting conversation considering the circumstance. I then managed to accidently kick over the stations cooler of ice water. I offered the bottle of water back.

Way to take the high road

[Johan W]

Garry and smsazzi...what next? Doomed is a strong word but I see the trend where the one who adapted to change get to become dominant. Early eighties Formula Vee use to be on par with the Formula Ford(Kent engined) crowd. They refused to change while we moved to the water cooled Golf(Polo) 1400 engines(inlet manifolds that's discussed in length probably less then $30) Formula Ford now have a handful competitors in the Libre class.

Here we saw Ford took the initiative and moved to become dominant. I've built fourteen water cooled vees and will have nr 14(my daughter) racing in the Libre class in Canada next year after I finished the 2hr endurance race and 50th Anniversary race in South Africa.

Engine balanced with F/Vee cam that last three seasons or longer. Twin 40 DCOE Webers(cannot modify or even polish any parts). Used to race on Michelins now Hankook radials that last a season(sponsored and monitored.) Disk brakes that have less maintenance...etc.

For a fraction of the cost that some discuss on certain issues you can have a Golf engine installed at way less on the same gearbox. Adaptors about $100. Anybody that want to do a few laps are welcome once I have the Vee shipped to Canada end of Sep next year.