FV at Laguna Runoffs ??

[Steve Davis]

Anyone have any info about what's going on, please post for the rest of us. I saw Race-Monitor "results" from yesterday's morning session. It showed Jonathan Weisheit as the fastest Vee.. just 0.007 behind the fastest FF, Jeremy Grenier - yeah, right! and MV some 11 seconds behind JW. I'm pretty sure they had a BFA since they only got 4 or 5 laps at the most. MV in .45's, Jake Pipal a second back and Nuby 5 seconds off that. I wonder where JW really fit in ?

No other data from yesterday, but SRF pole in .42's this morning. We won't get any more info on Vee till this afternoon at 3 (6P EDT).

Anybody reading this have any better info??

[Hardingfv32]

I would say Weisheit had his transponder off. He certainly was not looking unusually fast compared to the other FV's around him. The track was slow and the weather a touch warmer than average. A mildly crowded track. Generally difficult to do one clear lap, but enough space to work on individual sections of the track at different times. Off coarse there were a number of front runners turning their first laps at the track. R Shields spun twice that I saw, for example.

Most of the FV's (40% of all event competitors) are in the dirt between 2 and 5. They are released from 5 and escorted around on the track. I am not sure what happens today if they are held in tech after qualifying. Yesterday you could just proceed around to turn 5 at the end of the session.

The main paddock (paved) is 80% large extra fee spots. The same amount of big rigs as usual… money talks and the little guy walks.

Brian

[BLS]

Steve,

if you look at race monitor for earlier regional race results you can find JW and MV times at those events. The last regional was JW and an earlier one was MV. Clearly, JW's time in testing is wrong. As I recall MV's best regional time was a bit over a second faster than JW's best regional time. Different weekends so hard to know what that means. I do think both their times are top level times. My guess at this point is they will be at the finish line very close together provided nothing messes up the race. OTOH, I'm expecting a very messed up race...

Not as interesting without your presence in the field...

Barry

[Steve Davis]

Thanks, Barry - I knew about those times from the 2 regionals, but as you, had no idea what the track conditions or 'car load' were between them. I wish I was there, but since I'm not, I'm trying to buck myself up with Race-Monitor and the refrigerator .
Can't wait till this evening to see how Q1 turns out.
BTW - FF/F5 is UP in a couple of minutes ...

[BLS]

Don't let the refrigerator win...

[Hardingfv32]

My guess at this point is they will be at the finish line very close together provided nothing messes up the race. eld...

A very poor guess! It will only be close at the finish if they are under the pace car.

Up to this time, Varacins is 2 sec faster using his March qualifying time. That was set with a car still in Road America/Runoffs configuration. They have returned with a car in a Laguna configuration. No one, I would assume using a Laguna setup, in the earlier Laguna Regional races or tests has gotten within 2 sec. of his March time.

Does this paint a pretty clear picture?

Brian

[B Farnham]

When I was watching race monitor JW had the fastest time by a few tenths over MV before it glitched and JW got that ridiculous time. I imagine it'll be close this year

[Amon]

B. Harding:


Crystal Clear!

[Hardingfv32]

Do you guys know anything about Weisheit as a driver. He is wild and prone to driving errors. Now I know he has looked good this year, but do mature drivers change their habits that easily? Past Runoff performances have certainly backed up his reputation.

There is one thing that he does have going… that is probably the largest budget in FV racing. To the point of 'possibly' trying to have his 'own' tires (shorter, 21.5?) made for Laguna. Say to the tune of $20k+.

Brian

[Amon]

Brian,

I've only raced against him once, but he's fast at nearly every track he runs and
unless you can beat him on a consistant basis or win the Runoff's yourself, I would
suggest that you cease your negative remarks about him! He's also been constructing
his own FV, and has made the effort needed to compete at the highest level in vee's,
so maybe he'll win, but at least he's made the effort to be there this week!

Mark

88' Citation 002'

[BLS]

Varacins is 2 sec faster using his March qualifying time

Actually, it is 1.35 seconds faster than JW's best time at the last Laguna Seca regional. Hard to compare since it is different weekends. I don't think JW had his "Laguna Seca/runoffs" setup either.

I have nothing against MV or anyone else. My fav is not there. I hope it is a great race for the participants. Don't bet too much against Jonathan, you might find yourself on the loosing end.

YMMV,
Barry

[Hardingfv32]

Varicins turned something like a 1:42.0 in March qualifying. So the 2 sec comment stands.

I do not need to race at Laguna to comment. Nor do I need to race him to comment on the facts. His rep stands as stated.

If he builds his own cars, where is the design creativity? Why do they look like Protoform/Vortech clones?

Brian

[problemchild]

So we have the Mercedes and Ferrari teams identified .....

It would be so nice to see some regular FV drivers racing ...... people that have been running the same old cars for 20 years, with parts that were once whizzy (in the 90s), and who did not drive several thousand miles to run regional events there, people without R&D budgets,etc ......
Are they any of those?

[BLS]

So the 2 sec comment stands.

Easy to look up:

Varacins Best time: 1:42.728

Weisheit Best time: 1:44.086

[BLS]

If he builds his own cars, where is the design creativity? Why do they look like Protoform/Vortech clones?

One reason would be that those cars are some of the best shapes, and any serious design effort leads one in the same direction. Most designers start with some pre-conception. I've seen the car close up and it is a very well built and engineered car.

My only comment was I expected the two of them, MV and JW, to be there at the end barring a mess. Who will win, I have no idea. I don't think they will be without company...

[crypt0zink]

It would be so nice to see some regular FV drivers racing ...... people that have been running the same old cars for 20 years, with parts that were once whizzy (in the 90s), and who did not drive several thousand miles to run regional events there, people without R&D budgets,etc ......
Are they any of those?

I think they call it "Vintage Racing"

FV 1st Qualifying is starting now...

[Bruce Livermore]

Way to go Andy!!!

[Matt King]

Varicins turned something like a 1:42.0 in March qualifying. So the 2 sec comment stands.

I do not need to race at Laguna to comment. Nor do I need to race him to comment on the facts. His rep stands as stated.

If he builds his own cars, where is the design creativity? Why do they look like Protoform/Vortech clones?

Brian

Nevermind...

[BLS]

Session 1 qual results Here:

https://www.race-monitor.com/Results/Session/5181237

[ChristopherBernard]

Hey Bruce,
You're not out there! Or are you?

Chris

[fos]

Granted, I can see it's an epic tow to laguna from the NE, but still... It seems like FV is down say almost 50% from average field and other classes are looking the same dramatically low turnout.

Maybe the entry fees are exorbitant... I haven't checked... maybe the tow is too crazy...
I would have thought drivers from the NE would have found a tractor trailer to pack up together and fly out...?

Now, I'm not too concerned about the smaller fields. Just not sure they are representative across SCCA. I checked the entry list and saw the heavily weighted west coast entries.

Smaller fields was the way of things back before the '90s where only 4 cars from each division were allowed. I only made some of the runoffs because it was opened up to more entries in the 90's.

[craigs]

The number of total entries this year doesn't seem like an outlier over the last four years. Just a quick total of FV starters over the years. Last couple of years are entrants.

2005 - 44 FV
2006 - 39 FV
2007 - 43 FV
2008 - 37 FV
2009 - 41 FV
2010 - 36 FV
2011 - 537 Total (34 FV)
2012 - 504 (36 FV)
2013 - 701 (48 FV)
2014 - 523 (32 FV)

[Bruce Livermore]

Much as I'd like to be, no I'm not "out there".
Just not in the cards this year. 2-3 weeks of vacation weren't available, let alone the $ needed to do it right. So I'll just have to observe from a distance.
Maybe someday I'll drive Laguna in a vintage Lotus Seven. That would pretty well check that one off the bucket list for me...

[Tiago Santos]

I'm actually surprised and happy with the numbers. Can't compare to 2013 since that was a special year for the runoffs, but it's only 2 cars down from 2012 - considering the NE is so far away, I'd say it's worked out pretty well. The entry fees are also higher, I believe, but that doesn't seem to have stopped anyone.

First session was interesting, can't wait to see how the rest of the week pans out. I think there's a few folks keeping their cards close to their chests

[Hardingfv32]

The track was very slippery late in the day.

All the covers are of the rear axles assemblies. Do not know what administrative activities toke place in this regard.

Brian

[Rolling Stone]

Do you guys know anything about Weisheit as a driver. He is wild and prone to driving errors. Now I know he has looked good this year, but do mature drivers change their habits that easily? Past Runoff performances have certainly backed up his reputation.

There is one thing that he does have going… that is probably the largest budget in FV racing. To the point of 'possibly' trying to have his 'own' tires (shorter, 21.5?) made for Laguna. Say to the tune of $20k+.

Brian

Classic quotes from a person with an attitude to someone who is financially well off,we would ALL act the same if we had plenty of funds no matter what sport

[BLS]

All the covers are of the rear axles assemblies.

Brian, is that "off", as in the rear axle fairings have been removed?

I take it you are in attendance and are our roving reporter?

Thanks,
Barry

[grapefarmeral]

Brian,

Lots of negative vibes about Jonathan... Have you ever met Jonathan? I've been to his shop in Baltimore and yes, it's a nice shop...yes he's done well, but perhaps it's because he's smart and worked hard for his success... you're smart as well, but did you work hard and make your fortune, or did you inherit...?

The place where Jonathan works on his Vee looks like most other competitors...a Bridgeport that is exactly like the one I have, built somewhere in the 40's, an old metal lathe of the same era and tons of parts and bits and pieces he's worked on and modified over the years ... he does nice work and he's passionate about Formula Vee

[reidhazelton]

Do you guys know anything about Weisheit as a driver. He is wild and prone to driving errors. Now I know he has looked good this year, but do mature drivers change their habits that easily? Past Runoff performances have certainly backed up his reputation.

There is one thing that he does have going… that is probably the largest budget in FV racing. To the point of 'possibly' trying to have his 'own' tires (shorter, 21.5?) made for Laguna. Say to the tune of $20k+.

Brian

Do you ever say anything positive or nice? Seriously? I can tolerate your stone throwing at anything SCCA does or anything to do with the Runoffs, but to now turn on a person, and fellow racer is ridiculous. I parked next to Jonothan at the 2011 Runoffs. He and his wife were instant friends. They invited me and my Father into their warm trailer (it was cold and crappy for a few days) and treated us like we were family with some of the best crock-pot barbeque I've ever had. I was on pole in FF that year, and when I got back to our pit spot they were both there and had been watching. They were as excited for me as anyone, and they had not known me for more than 3 days. Since then, him and his wife have surprised me on numerous occasions at tracks by coming up and saying hi with a gigantic smile. They are always interested in how I am doing. People like this deserve success, and then to be able to do with the fruits of their success whatever the hell they want. To criticize that is ridiculous. Micheal V works just as hard at his program, and spends his resources on wind tunnel time. So what is Jonathon tried a new tire. If he races hard, so be it. At the front, that is how it goes (Not sure if you've been there, so you might not know). I never once got a hint of snooty or snobbery from Jon or his wife. Actually, I can't think of them every saying anything negative to anyone. Maybe you should try it.

Now, go away and let the thread pertain to the Runoffs, not criticizing anything possible, real or fictional. We have all grown tired of your negativity, unconstructive criticism, and stone throwing rants. Now you are targeting people, and that is unacceptable.

[grapefarmeral]

Reid,

Never met you, but I like your style...

[Dave Woodmancy]

Do you ever say anything positive or nice? Seriously? I can tolerate your stone throwing at anything SCCA does or anything to do with the Runoffs, but to now turn on a person, and fellow racer is ridiculous. I parked next to Jonothan at the 2011 Runoffs. He and his wife were instant friends. They invited me and my Father into their warm trailer (it was cold and crappy for a few days) and treated us like we were family with some of the best crock-pot barbeque I've ever had. I was on pole in FF that year, and when I got back to our pit spot they were both there and had been watching. They were as excited for me as anyone, and they had not known me for more than 3 days. Since then, him and his wife have surprised me on numerous occasions at tracks by coming up and saying hi with a gigantic smile. They are always interested in how I am doing. People like this deserve success, and then to be able to do with the fruits of their success whatever the hell they want. To criticize that is ridiculous. Micheal V works just as hard at his program, and spends his resources on wind tunnel time. So what is Jonathon tried a new tire. If he races hard, so be it. At the front, that is how it goes (Not sure if you've been there, so you might not know). I never once got a hint of snooty or snobbery from Jon or his wife. Actually, I can't think of them every saying anything negative to anyone. Maybe you should try it.

Now, go away and let the thread pertain to the Runoffs, not criticizing anything possible, real or fictional. We have all grown tired of your negativity, unconstructive criticism, and stone throwing rants. Now you are targeting people, and that is unacceptable.

[Hardingfv32]

Yes, off. I suffer from partial illiteracy. Fortunately that is not a problem when designing and fabbing FV's. I was at the track Sun and Mon, but home now. A friend at the track made the observation that Varacins had his covers off.

Weisheit…. Context of the thread: Someone was handicapping the FV race putting Weisheit up against Varacins. You can not handicap if you do not include the negatives. We have never been on the track with him. His rep is universal with all the drivers that I have ever spoken with on the subject without exception.

As a car builder, I am underwhelmed by his cars. You guys are obviously easier to impress.

I retired from the defense industry at 35 (now 65) with some savings. My wife at about 40. I was Mr Mom even though I hate little kids. The deal was that I got to retire, race FV's and she got kids. We built a home with cash in the foothills above Malibu (not in Malibu) so we have pot of gold to fall back on. We live cheap… about $25k a year. This is why we are not at Laguna, just a very poor value for my entertainment dollar. Also my driver was not going to beat Varacins. We have run a time equal to Varacins best, 1:42.0, at Laguna but he would never last 45 minutes at that pace. You have to know your limits.

My focus is now on a new car for Daytona. Been on it everyday (8-10 hrs) since mid April. At $2-3000 for a new car build (use all the parts form the last car) that is a great value for my entertainment dollar.

Brian

[reidhazelton]

.

[racerdad2]

I've never understood the resentment of those with more talent, more insight, more innovation, intelligence, experience, diligence, time, money, character, etc.

Racing at any level is about big fish in small ponds. From Kid Karts to F1, there is always someone that happens to be the biggest fish.

The goal of the small fish is to beat them on the track, not berate them off the track.

Kudos to all the guys & gals who set the bar high ! It makes us all better, not bitter...

[Matt Clark]

[crypt0zink]

2nd FV Qualifying starting within 10 minutes,

https://www.race-monitor.com/Live/Race/22381

[Tiago Santos]

My focus is now on a new car for Daytona. Been on it everyday (8-10 hrs) since mid April. At $2-3000 for a new car build (use all the parts form the last car) that is a great value for my entertainment dollar.

What's the difference between working a real job and paying for the stuff you need (like $20k tires) vs making your car build a full time job? Considering how smart you are, I'd value the time you spend working on your car every season to be in the six figures. Which probably makes you by far the biggest spender in FV, with the least results to show for it.

[Matt King]

What's the difference between working a real job and paying for the stuff you need (like $20k tires) vs making your car build a full time job? Considering how smart you are, I'd value the time you spend working on your car every season to be in the six figures. Which probably makes you by far the biggest spender in FV, with the least results to show for it.

Game. Set. Match.

[captaineddie1975]

I've never understood the resentment of those with more talent, more insight, more innovation, intelligence, experience, diligence, time, money, character, etc.

Racing at any level is about big fish in small ponds. From Kid Karts to F1, there is always someone that happens to be the biggest fish.

The goal of the small fish is to beat them on the track, not berate them off the track.

Kudos to all the guys & gals who set the bar high ! It makes us all better, not bitter...

Well said

[jhenn4716]

Ok ok ok, so I went to this thread to read about how vee's were doing at the runoffs... and a fight broke out. Thought I was at a hockey game.

Let's get back on track; what are the times, how are the track conditions, how are things shaping up?

Focus people, focus!