Buying a Home-Made Project FB

[flashburn]

Hi! I'm brand new to the forums. I spent the better part of this week browsing and reading what I could before making my first post here. Quick into: I used to race and fix motorcycles in College. When I graduated I began racing and fixing Miatas. Now I'm ready to combine the two and I believe I have a unique opportunity to do so.

I've found a semi-local gentleman with a machine shop who is selling an almost done Formula 1000 car. He and a friend built the chassis and his friend has passed. So he is selling the chassis for very cheap. The seller has mentioned the car runs, drives, turns, stops, etc. On the surface, I can tell that I need to do all the body work and wings (all it has now is a nose cone over the electrics. I am looking at the car Sunday and I'll bring my tape measure to make sure all the things listed out in the 2014 rule book at within spec. I can inspect all the welds, engine, tranny, etc. What else should I be looking for that is unique to this class/configuration and not any other used performance category purchase?

My master plan is to buy it and get familiar for the first year. I know my way around motorcycle engines but I'd say I'm a master mechanic/fabricator for street cars. I plan on only do autox events and some local track days for the first year. Then over the next year, finish all the aero work once I ensure all the mechanical bits are in order.

I can't be the first person! But I didn't find any other posts either - so please advise!

(apologies if this isn't the proper section within the forums. Since I'm not building it yet, didn't know if it belonged here or in the builder forum)

[reidhazelton]

I'd suggest posting some pictures on this site before you drop any cash.

There have been a few "manufacturers" in the past few years (mini formula indy guy comes to mind) that make cars, or made a car, that really isn't an F1000 car.

Few quick pictures would help those in F1000 (not me) give you a much better idea of what you have to work with.

[brownslane]

I would suggest you might want to ask if anyone local (with formula car experience) could come with you and do an inspection. These cars are not simple and require specialist knowledge. Well worth even paying for the inspector's time and travel costs. A few bucks up front might save you $$ later.

These cars are not a commodity. The chassis and suspension design is critical...we invest about 300 hours in (professional) design work before we cut the first tube. So you need to know what process was used to design the suspension...

You also best verify a budget for the costs of completion. Things add up pretty quickly. Make a list of what the car kit does not include and then investigate what those parts cost; if these exceed your budget...well you know the rest!

With all that said you would have an incredibly quick and fun race car if done right!

Tom

[chrisw52]

being somewhat new to formula cars myself, I would recommend that you purchase something else.

You want a running car that is reasonably well sorted for your first car. Then you can leverage your skills as a motorcycle mechanic learning how to setup the car instead of building and trying to figure out if you bought a competitive car.

good luck with what ever you choose to do!

[ghickman]

Post some pictures and the skilled forum here will let you know if this looks like a good move.

If it's cheap enough and there are some good parts it may still be worth some dough.

[RussMcB]

Agree with Gary (and earlier posts).

If you can take 10 or so pictures and post them here, you'll have a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people more that willing to identify possible problems.

Your plan to autocross it is good. That's a great place to see if it might be track worthy. If it turns out not to be great for road racing, it should still be a blast at an autocross.

If your primary goal is to get up to speed in a road race F1000, then I'd agree with chrisw52 and recommend buying a car that's already been raced successfully.

Sounds like a possible fun and educating project. Good luck.

[marchsv]

Is it this car?

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54991


http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25363

[flashburn]

Wow guys, thanks for all the quick replies! Here are the pictures I have. I go to look at the car tomorrow. Let me know your thoughts!

[Marty Nygard]

The first thing I noticed is the roll hoop is missing the required forward facing braces.
M

[dc]

So much no.

[Mike B]

I think what Doug is trying to say is continue shopping around.


Are those mountain bike shocks?

[Josh Pitt]

Any car I buy, I always look at it through the eyes of being the next seller of the car.

that said, do not buy this car; do not even go to see the car.

[ghickman]

I think this could be the car in post #7 and post #12 nailed it.

Resale on this would be next to nill.

I don't see any good parts here. I highly recommend passing on it.

[brownslane]

Don't know solo rules but this might be a candidate for solo. I would NOT sit in the car on a race track. Unsafe.

For whipping around a parking lot you might have a ton of fun.

[Kazis31]

I wouldn't pay anything over few grand for it and use for only weekend runs around canyons to fight boredom.
Definitely not f1000.
I wouldn't autocross it either ,guys might laugh too hard to get any good result out of it.
don't mean to be mean ,just don't want anybody's money wasted.
Pay more get proper car.
F 1000 from 25 to 40 k.

[Kazis31]

Captain Nemo would definitely like the nose.

[flashburn]

Wow, great! Thanks for the replies. I am going to pass then! So glad I posted!!! You guys saved my weekend.

Does anyone know what the builder may have been building this for then? He said F1000 on the phone and seemed very knowledgeable about the class rules and restrictions. Perhaps it fits the mold for a lesser class?

[Jasonrmbell]

What is your budget ? There are some cars out there for sale

[R. Pare]

Definitely built by someone who knows nothing about race car design, and especially designing for this class.

[flashburn]

What is your budget ? There are some cars out there for sale

To be honest, budget isn't an issue (not that I have infinite money so a good deal is what I'm searching for). I really enjoy the build. I don't want to build one from the ground up, but I also don't want a 100% done car. However, I also don't want to get into a car done entirely wrong like this one! For example.

My father and I just purchased a 50% done RV6 airplane. It is a kit plane from Van's Aircraft. The fuselage and airfoils were completed but the seller never finished the engine mount or cockpit gauges. So we picked it up for essentially half of what it would cost to build on our own and nearly 75% less than buying a complete plane. But, it was done correctly, to spec, to blue prints, etc. It's the perfect blend of needing built but saving time and money.

Does that make sense? Its all about learning and saving for me. It sounds pretty needy when I re-read it...

[dc]

If it were me, I would talk to Jay Novak about one of his new F600 cars in a buildable kit form. Really sounds like a car that would suit your needs well, is really fast, could be autocrossed, track day'd and raced competitively in the SCCA. Buy a new car that is already proven to work and be safe, and learn it intimately by building it yourself. And it's less than half of a new F1000/FB. And, you won't be throwing good money after bad at someone else's failed project.

[racerdad2]

Wiser words were never spoken.

[ghickman]

Hey Flashburn......The RV6 is a fantastic choice for a homebuilt aircraft. The build quality on these kits is superb. You and your dad will have fun putting that together.

[JerryH]

Agree with Gary....the RV line of aircraft is an example of good design and quality.

Unllike the experimental aircraft market, there are few if any kits available in the race car market. There are several for street/track day cars.

As far as race car options go.....if a new F1000 is beyond your reach, then the F600 from Navak would be a good choice.....and there are several very good used F1000's for sale in the mid 30's.

Definately walk away from the car that started this thread.

Jerry Hodges
JDR Race Cars
jdrmotorsport.com

[Rick Kean]

I think what Doug is trying to say is continue shopping around.


Are those mountain bike shocks?

Look like an 'F1000' version of these mini-moto Fox Shox:
http://www.ridefox.com/product.php?m...340&ref=filter



Dampa Spert: 'WasAmatta U., Class of 00'




Rick

[flashburn]

Thanks everyone. I cancelled our appt for tomorrow and will check out the 600s you mentioned. They sound like they are right up my alley!

And yes, we are loving the rv6 build thus far. It's been a great way to get some adult father son time! We flew a friends before purchasing, boy are they nimble!

[SEComposites]

In one of the photo's the second 'dash hoop' looks like it's been cut 3/4 of the way through so it can be bent. I hope that's not what I'm seeing!

[Pi_guy]

Thanks everyone. I cancelled our appt for tomorrow and will check out the 600s you mentioned. They sound like they are right up my alley!

And yes, we are loving the rv6 build thus far. It's been a great way to get some adult father son time! We flew a friends before purchasing, boy are they nimble!

Very nice to see somebody taking advice from the group.
There is a wide range of experience here and we would rather see you having a productive time at the track.

[Agitator]

The weld to the right of the steering wheel in the 4th picture (front roll hoop) looks worse than the first weld I ever performed when I was 10 years old. I'm sure the guy tried his best, but to sell something like that, and pass it off as a race car, is just sad. You're doing the right thing by walking away from it, no matter how good a deal it is.

[R. Pare]

In one of the photo's the second 'dash hoop' looks like it's been cut 3/4 of the way through so it can be bent. I hope that's not what I'm seeing!

That's exactly what you are seeing! Looks like it was done after welded into place so that the body would fit better.

Good lord......

[R. Pare]

The weld to the right of the steering wheel in the 4th picture (front roll hoop) looks worse than the first weld I ever performed when I was 10 years old. I'm sure the guy tried his best, but to sell something like that, and pass it off as a race car, is just sad. You're doing the right thing by walking away from it, no matter how good a deal it is.

You should see some of the repair welds on the old Watson sprint car that Chris Crowe is restoring - makes this thing look like real art work! Chris might have been better off scrapping the original frame and starting all over from scratch.

[Rick Kean]

I see 4 injectors, DOHCs

Rick

[Stan Clayton]

So much no.

Let me add to this sentiment...





And finally...

[glenn cooper]

I see that thing takes an actual ignition key - BONUS!

[chrisw52]

I think the only thing you can do with that car is put some silly big wings on it and compete in autocross in the A Modified class.

[BLS]

I see that thing takes an actual ignition key - BONUS!

Dang, good catch. Maybe this thing was intended to be a fancy street car...

[10rmotor]

Hey, its got dual exhausts. If it has 4.11 gears it can really get lost!

Momo looks useable for the next project!

[2BWise]

On eBay now. Starting bid $5200. Dodged a bullet there.

[Rick Kean]

I see 4 injectors, DOHCs

Rick

5000mi Honda CBR1000RR

Thank you Rick

[Steve Davis]

The weld to the right of the steering wheel in the 4th picture (front roll hoop) looks worse than the first weld I ever performed when I was 10 years old. I'm sure the guy tried his best, but to sell something like that, and pass it off as a race car, is just sad. You're doing the right thing by walking away from it, no matter how good a deal it is.

To go beyond that, it is *NOT* a "front roll hoop".. it is just a tack on piece that LOOKS like one from the top. The FRH must go completely to the bottom frame tube. From the pix, there is NOTHING beneath that tackon piece.

No way that would pass SCCA tech.
I concur with Stan's response in pix