Chains and links

[Frazer Mackay]

I am sure this has been discussed many times before so please feel free to point me towards a previous thread if there is one. I did search quickly but failed to answer my curiosity.

CHAINS:
Any recommendations on type and brand for race car applications?

LINKS:
Quick release or riveted?

My inkling is that the quick release are too good to be true and will be weaker than the riveted option. You never get anything for nothing as they say. However last night I stumbled across and picture of a literally half naked Phoenix Raceworks beauty and low and behold on the chain the there was a quick release link. The picture was of a new build so perhaps the quick link was just there to ease the continual assembly and reassembly required at that stage whilst trial fitting all the new parts. Perhaps it was never intended to race like that.

What's your opinions and experiences?

[ken kaplowitz]

there's not much choice eather top of the line DID,I can;t remember the name or RK gold.
there's no choice on links,riveted
ken kaplowitz

[JakeL]

Ken is right on both counts - use DID chain, and riveted master links.

-Jake

[Bob Wheless]

yes

[Frazer Mackay]

Thanks for that.

Oring sealed, x ring sealed (Whatever that is???) or unsealed?

I would have thought the better sealed the better but then I read that the unsealed versions are looser in bending so less resistance and more interestingly since they have no seals the pins themselves are shorter and therefore subject to less bending load. The argument being that the mode of failure in a race car is due to excessive stretching and strain on the chain rather than out and out wear of the rollers. So a frequently lubricated unsealed chain should be stronger than a sealed version.

Agree disagree?

[glenn cooper]

Sealed.
X Ring is "X" in side profile, while "O" Ring is rectangular.
I suppose one could run a non-O ring chain, and lube and adjust it after every session if they wanted. Oh, and clean up the whole rear of the chassis, and the wiring loom, engine, airbox, ecu...

An unsealed chain looses adjustment much quicker than a sealed chain.

Rolling resistance and all that is out the window.

The reason we all run a sealed chain is it is VERY reliable, and requires hardly any lubing / maintenance. Just make sure the chain tension is correct before each session.

I replace mine after 4 race weekends, and inspect it after each session.
That means looking at every roller, O ring, sprocket tooth, etc...

I have had one chain fail, not at master link. The broken link was lying under the engine and it had been blued quite heavily from lack of lube, while the rest of the chain was perfect.

I suspect some brake fluid had gotten on an O ring when I had split the car to swap an engine (brake line needs disconnected right above chain to do this).

Moral of story - get dripless quick connects, or change brake line routing to avoid a connection near/above the chain...

[ReynardF1000]

Did some research at several chain sites.

Chain doesn't stretch, though it's a fitting physical description of the outcome. The bushings wear, creating lengthening.

Sealed chain has nearly the same friction as open chain, when warm. The internal grease looses much of its viscosity when hot.

Don't allow the chain to get hotter than ~160F or the lube will fail (this sounds a little cold, but that was the claim. Maybe it just runs out through the seal.). I duct filtered, cool air to my chain "enclosure" explained next.

If you build removable oil guards around the chain, they will keep the mess to a minimum. They're fiddly to build but with Dzus fasteners they're worth the effort and keep the chain MUCH cleaner as well. There's a lot of dust/dirt/rubber/stuff around the back of the car, and it all seems to collect on the chain. A moving stream of water is used to filter dust from air in some commercial work areas. Can't imagine oil not doing the same thing.

[Frazer Mackay]

Thanks for the info.

So o ring sealed chains all the way:

no loss in friction once at running temp.
less mess
more reliable

and riveted master links.

Interesting point on the brake line couplings. You'd never think of that whilst designing would you. Good tip. To be honest I'd be freaked out having the brake line anywhere near the chain, wouldn't want a chain failure leading to brake failure.

Last question I have on chains is half links. Anyone use them? Is there a reliability issue in using them? My installation is all very small and doesn't have a lot of space. If my baseline gearing needs altering I may need to have a go up or down on one roller to accommodate in the space. Anyone foresee this as a problem or not?

[glenn cooper]

NO on the half links. They are ****, meant for a child's 3 hp minibike IF THAT.
Pretty much do what the guys that have no or minimal problems are doing

[Wren]

When you say that your installation is very small, do you mean that you have a very short chain? There is a potential for chain heat build up if your chain is too short.

Is it more or less than 90 links?

[Frazer Mackay]

Well................. truth be told I have two chains. Both very short. 40 rollers followed be 56 rollers. There is a cross shaft behind the engine bringing the drive onto the centre line of the car.

I was aware of the heat issue when I designed it but since the car was primarily being designed for hillclimbs and therefore very short runs I thought this would be ok. Obviously for longer running on circuits I'll need to keep and eye on this. I can see this would be an issue in F1000 where the circuits are super fast and races reasonably long. Hillclimbs are over in a matter of minutes.

So with the chains so short changing up or down one full link (two rollers) actually influences the chain loop quite dramatically. Being able to go up and down one roller would be an advantage.

Are we saying half links are a weak spot and best avoided? Stick to even number of rollers?

[Gary Slahor]

Don't mean to hijack this thread.... but I think Frazer got most of his answers.

Is there a source for exact quantities of chain....say DID 530XMV-X or RK GB530GXW ?

All kinds of motorcycle shops sell pre-cut lengths, but I always end up throwing away the part I have to cut off. Is there somewhere that will sell me 88 links for example..... oh and at a great price too !

TIA...........

[formulasuper]

Don't mean to hijack this thread.... but I think Frazer got most of his answers.

Is there a source for exact quantities of chain....say DID 530XMV-X or RK GB530GXW ?

All kinds of motorcycle shops sell pre-cut lengths, but I always end up throwing away the part I have to cut off. Is there somewhere that will sell me 88 links for example..... oh and at a great price too !

TIA...........

Whoa dude, the next time you get ready to throw some of that extra cut off chain away let me know, I'll happily pay for shipping & handling.

[Gary Slahor]

You are welcome to the drops, but they usually are on the order of 6 -1 0 links long.
I suppose you could join them all together with 10 -15 rivited master links (at $12 ea) but do you really think it would be worth the effort or cost ?

[formulasuper]

You are welcome to the drops, but they usually are on the order of 6 -1 0 links long.
I suppose you could join them all together with 10 -15 rivited master links (at $12 ea) but do you really think it would be worth the effort or cost ?

You must use a long chain on that FB, my Busa FS only uses a little over 1/2 of a Busa bike chain.