Experience with RV as tow vehicle?

[Garey Guzman]

Finally paid off the ex and other divorce bills and got back on the track last month. Although my boys (10 and 6) seemed happy camping in the trailer (it has AC), I thought it would be a further improvement to look into getting a used motorhome diesel pusher and selling off my F350.

For those who have towed with an RV, how is it? Before my fund-deficiency, I rarely got a hotel when racing, usually sleeping in the back seat of my truck. It sucked at MO when it dropped into the low 30's or so both nights but I survived and I'd prefer not to make my boys miserable.

BTW, I'm towing a 28' tag and hope to sometimes have 2 Formula cars in it. Even with 2 cars (900 and 1150 lbs), I doubt I'm pulling 7,000 lbs total.

Thoughts/experience appreciated!

[racerdad2]

There's a tow dolly set-up to use behind motorhomes to tow trailers. Trailer Toad ? Name escapes me. You hitch thr dolly to MH, then trailer hitch rides on it. Takes the weight off thr MH frame. 7k#'s may not be an issue. Check tow rating on MH & hitch.

[Brian C in Az]

I have a Newmar Kountrystar diesel pusher. When a 26,000 lb motorhome is pulling a 10,000 lb trailer, you don't even know that it is there. Seriously, there is almost no difference on the road. There is nothing like a motorhome for weekend trips. No stopping for the kids potty breaks, no stopping for the kids to eat, the driving is much less difficult than driving a truck pulling a trailer. Best part is not having to get out at night to set up like a trailer for overnight stops. You can pull into the parking area and set the jacks with a push of the buttons, then take a shower, eat and go to sleep. The kids will love being able to stretch out while you drive, no knees to elbows and the associate back seat fighting that goes on in a pick up or car.

[Josh Pitt]

hey garey,
I used a 1 ton diesel and a cabover camper.
torklift was the hitch system I used for the trailer.
look up torklifts products.
I had a motorhome, but that thing was expensive to have sitting in the driveway.
just sitting it would break and cost a lot to fix.

I returned back to the cabover after the moho, looking back, the cabover was the way to go for me with the correct hitch system.
Josh

[TimH]

I had a motorhome, but that thing was expensive to have sitting in the driveway.
just sitting it would break and cost a lot to fix.

Yup.

[cory mcleod]

I'm no expert on the subject, but have done some research on using an RV as tow vehicle. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.

1. I was surprised at how many large RVs only have a 5k pound towing capacity (diesel and gas). I've read that the frame extensions at the back of RVs are weak, hence the low towing capacity. Some people beef up the rear frame on the RV and tow beyond the rating, but I've also read (but have not independently verified) that insurance companies will deny claims if something happens when you are towing beyond the RV's rating. Based on what I've read, the Trailer Toad or something equivalent would be well worth the cost.

2. Most all states have maximum length rules for the RV + trailer. The most common max lengths I've read are 60 and 65 feet (obviously varies by state). With a 28 foot trailer, that would limit you to a smaller RV, which would make it even more difficult to find one with a tow rating over 5k pounds.

Hope this helps.

Cory

[brownslane]

Definitely a way to go. Check the states you are planning on visiting /traveling through. Some states (like California IIRC) that have maximum lengths that may preclude your overall length. Also please check with your state licensing...some overall lengths may require an upgrad to your drivers license.

You should not even think about hauling a 28 footer without the use of a toad. I tow our 32 tri-axle with our motorhome and the toad works great! Takes most weight off the rear frame of the motorhome...and stabilizes the link between trailer and coach. The result is a "two-fingered" drive down the road; you will not experience any sway or porpoising.

Coop had his trailer almost tear the arse out of his motorhome on his way back from RA a couple of years ago (without a trailer toad)....there is just very little in these coach chassis behind the rear axle.... and all the weight that far behind the rear axle tends to porpoise the front wheels....not confidence-inspiring to say the least!

With all that said the coach is the way to go if you don't mind maneuvering all that length....getting into Walmarts etc can be a hassle. My coach is a gas motor so that is a REAL pain fueling on the road; the diesel will be no problem as you can use every truck stop on your journey.

It is soooo nice to be able to walk into your own little world, nice and cosy at the track.

And you can take your boys "camping" on your off-weekends! We have actually used ours for out of town gymnastics competitions with our girls.

Best, Tom

[rob66x]

I've spent a lot of time in the back of my tahoe and my suburban and they worked out fine , but using my RV is way nicer .AC, TV, forced air heat freezer , toilet , and on and on there is no comparison between the two including the cost. The RV eats fuel, even when its sitting the generator is still eating fuel. Mine is an early 90's Bounder 454 gas motor , it would not work with your tow . Make sure you get a turbo diesel , and make sure it has an inverter, and solar panel . this way you dont have to run the Gen. all the time. There are a number of 27 or 30 ft. units out there and with a couple of slide outs they are plenty big. now if you have a ton of dough you can always go the PREVOST route with a driver, and have the crew bring the cars in the SEMI.

[Daryl DeArman]

Garey,

Welcome back!

The comfort and convenience to/from the track and while at the track makes it all worth it.

For a trailer of that size don't even consider a gasser.

If your F350 is a diesel, it doesn't matter what RV you get it will not tow as effortlessly as your pick up. There's simply too much difference in power to weight. Your truck and trailer combo will weigh significantly less than the RV empty.

The extra weight and long wheelbase will make it tow much nicer than your truck on flat ground but you will notice the difference going up the hills.

Do it, you won't regret it!

[Steve Bamford]

RV is very nice to have at the track.

The other option is there are trailers you could tow with your F350 that have living space as well. That might be an option for you to consider as the overall cost might be much cheaper. There are different options such as Toy Haulers & ones with separate living areas as well.

[racerdad2]

I'd love a motorhome. In the meantime, we camp out in the car hauler. Heat - AC, fridge, propane stove, coolers, cabinets with cookware & groceries, air mattresses and the all important 'comfy' pillows

No TV. No Video Games.There's plenty to do for kids with ATV, Pit Bike, Bikes, Scooters & whatever gear for the sports they're into.

[Purple Frog]

Gary,
Lots of threads on this very subject in archives. Worth reading.
I found a 32' gasser (V10) with no slides that had a GCVW of 10,000 lbs. above its GVW.
I then did a bit of welding underneath the rear to reinforce the chassis with a custom hitch. Off I went for 60,000 miles towing a 7,000 lb trailer. (but the trailer was only 20')
Imo, there is no better way to club race than a RV in the paddock.

[problemchild]

If I already had an F350, I would go the toy hauler route with a half camper/half race trailer.

RVs are sheds going down the highway at 70mph. They require continual, often specialized maintenance and repair. As long as the trailer has a real camper section, you can play the RV game and won't need an upgraded license. No worries about hitch structures, toads, etc.

[Rick Kirchner]

RVs (especially a DP) are maintenance hogs (a house on a shake table) so don't go too old or cheap. Get a top line DP - Foretravel, beaver, nicer monacos and newmars, etc. All the comments about frame extensions only apply to gassers. with that big-ass diesel hung out the back the frames are stout as hell.

the 5K rating is because many manufacturers throw on a cheap hitch. Look at the hitches on showhaulers and put one of those on the DP and nolo problemo.

[Garey Guzman]

Thanks guys! As usual, a lot of great advice.

I bought my 2003 F350 new but with the place I had in Calif, I couldn't get a dually. That kinda put me off getting a 40" or more combo trailer with living quarters or a camper of sufficient size for me and my growing boys. Plus, it's possible that I might get a girlfriend some day!! That would be a cramped camper!

Then I saw a couple places that sell repo/trade-in RVs. They have late 90's diesels in the mid-20k range, and the 2000 Newmar I was looking at was almost $40k. It looks like the Freightliner chassis RVs are the most robust (in my price range) so I'm focusing on those (minimal rear overhang). By the time I sell my truck, I'm probably looking at about the same purchase price as getting that nice combo trailer. And as I've read above, it's so much more comfortable!

I would love a toterhome but even 8-10 years old, they are almost as expensive as my TN house was!

[JerryH]

Love em at the track......hate towing with....or even driving the damn things! Hate even worse the frequent and costly maintenance.

[EACIII]

I have been towing with an RV for over 20 years now and have no plans to ever go back to the pickup routine. They are a breeze to drive, I once had to stop myself from getting up to go get a coke out of the frig because forgot I was driving. That is how easy they are to drive.

Never had big maintenance issue with any of the three I had. Sold the first one as it was just getting old (over 20 years). The next one had a tree fall on it. So I replaced it with one just like it.

They have all been GM/Workhorse P30/P32 chassis. I think they are better then the Fords. I wish they made a front motor Class A with a deisel, but I never can seem to find them. The 8.1 gas motor is a very good motor. Gets good milage for a motor home and has lots of power. I can pull out and pass trucks and Ford V-10 rigs going up hill pulling my trailer no problems.

Also makes loading up much easier as half the stuff is kept in the motor home.

Only big issue with the gas units is getting gas. In my track book I have notes on where the gas stations I can get in and out of are. Have had to back out of some onto a busy road when there just no other way out.

The tow ratings are a problem as most are 5000 lbs only (some 3500). And most of the big motorhomes you see towing 24 to 28 ft trailer are illegal in most states (too long). They have just not been stopped yet. But my current one is only 26 ft with a 20 ft trailer so I am good anywhere. And the ATC trailer with just one FF in it is right around 5000 lb. For a 28 ft trailer you really need a Super B, like the Kodiak based units which are rated for 10,000 lb toweing. But they don't make those anymore and hard to find a good used one. I know I looked.

[Brian C in Az]

Since you mentioned diesel pusher in the o.p., you already know that there is a world of difference between a gas coach and a diesel pusher. If you can get a Newmar diesel pusher for $40K, that would be the way to go. Newmar D.P. 's all have 10K hitches. One thing to check is the GCVW, some of the older pushers have a low GCVW, the loaded coach subtracted from the GCVW is all that you can legally tow. CHP has been stopping and checking the combined weights at some of the more popular RVing areas because so many are over weight.

[racerdad2]

Interesting data. The '95 Ford F250 Diesel has a 10k # tow rating. Same as large DP Motorhome. Too much weight on the Motorhome frame or not enough braking capacity ?

With so many people towing with motorhomes, one would think a MH designed for a higher tow rating would be in bigger demand.

The Trailer Toad certainly helps by reducing tongue weight & increasing stability. But doesn't help with Total Gross Weights & Length.

[Rick Kirchner]

The low tow ratings on DPs is simply due to cheap hitches, although if you get a long coach with a low HP motor they might be short on GCVR.

For gassers, the Workhorse chassis with the 8.1 is worlds better than the ford with a V-10. Two things to look out for though - Workhorse had massive problems with brakes and there was a big recall. Make sure if you look at one of those that's been covered. In some installations there's a lack of airflow around the engine itself and the spark plug wires burn up.

On DPs, avoid chassis with metal spring suspension and anything with hollow-core doors and cabinets. That's an indication of too light weight construction, and the reason to spend money on a DP is durability. Usually the light-weight stuff comes with the cummins pickup truck engine. You want the over-the-road truck engines.

Four air bags is good, eight better. The shorter the DP, the more attention you have to pay to front end alignment and weight on the nose, and it's best if getting one 34' or under to have the gennie in the nose - that helps a bunch. Mine's a 33', the gennie's in the back, and if it's windy I need a full tank of fuel to maintain handling. I also have a 450 lb steel slug between the rails, a 25 gallon Ag sprayer full of water, and a 3x8 tube bumper full of rebar. it handles much better than when I got it! The reason to go short is to draw less attention with a longer trailer and if under 34', you can still get into most forest service, national park, and state campgrounds.

While the freightliner chassis is a common baseline, the custom stuff by Beaver, Safari, and Monaco are very good, Some older coaches come with Gillig chassis, which are bulletproof (commercial bus chassis) and in general, a side radiator is a better setup than a rear radiator, but more complicated due to the hydraulic cooling fan motor (they take 80hp to drive the fan at full chat!)

Good brands:
Beaver
Safari (older ones are all aluminum and very durable)
Bounder (just the DPs, Bounder makes stuff for families so it's not real gucchi, but last forever)
Foretravel
American Eagle/americanDream
top line monacos (diplomats, etc)
Alpine coach
Newmar
Bounder DPs
Country Coach
Tiffin Allegro

Id stay away from GulfStream

1996-ish to 2008 or so when the recession hit

up to 36 ft you’ll need 330 hp. Over 36 ft look for 400+ hp. If you can find a 33-34' Country Coach or American Dream with a 400 in it I'd waste no time.

good reference @ http://www.rvonline.com/motorhomes/mhsize.html

With the exception of some of the bottom-rung models, it doesn't matter if you are buying a coach with an initial list price of 150K or 600K, they all use the same appliances and systems from the motorhome supplier mafia. They all have the same maintenance issues because of this. The high dollar coaches just have heavier construction, higher grade materials, and more features (power reels for cable and hoses, etc). Personally, I don't see the need for a fireplace, floor tile, and granite counters in an RV, it's just a waste of load capacity.

Aqua-hot systems are pretty neat as it takes care of endless hot water, a quieter means of heating the coach, as well as pre-heating the engine. They are finicky and need to be well maintained or else they can be a PITA.

I don't run into this problem out west, but east of the mississippi you'll need to pay attention to where you park in the paddock. A heavy rain could leave you sunk up to the chassis and looking at a dig-out followed by a very expensive tow.

[racerdad2]

Great summary. Thx !

[Bob Wheless]

Rick , what are your thoughts on the slideouts? Thanks a ton....bob

[DanW]

Rick , what are your thoughts on the slideouts? Thanks a ton....bob

Every slideout adds lots of weight. The weight is up fairly high too.

[Garey Guzman]

Great summary Rick!

In looking at combined lengths allowed in various states I might be traveling to, there are a couple that are under the 65' total that TN allows.

Another question is - has anyone been over the 60' combined length and gotten stopped/ticketed for it? I can see how a 40' RV with a 28' trailer might be obviously long to law enforcement....

Now to find that 36' Newmar! Or similar with a good motor and chassis....

[Stan Clayton]

One way to stay legal is to combine a ~35' DP with a 20' stacker trailer and a 10k or better hitch. Two light formula cars, spares and tools won't affect the MH much and you don't have to worry about a cop pulling you over for being too long. DP coaches are as tall as most smaller stackers, too, so height shouldn't be an issue. That's the combo I'll be looking for when it comes time to get a new(er) rig.

[glenn cooper]

I think you might be underestimating your weight.
When I got my 20' Pace trailer it was empty and I rolled across some CAT scales at a truck stop - 4100 lbs. by itself.

Alfa See Ya DP's I think may be the shortest DP - They look sweet...

[Brian]

My MH is a converted MCI highway bus, an MC-5C at 35 feet and around 26000 lbs. I tow a 20 ft stackable trailer, around 7,000 lbs with one car and the usual. It doesn't get good fuel mileage but I calculate that it's cheaper to go with the bus than with the F250, motels and restaurant meals to about any race. The kicker is the stay at the track, cook your own food. If that works for you, you are good to go. I started with a Dodge 2500, a pretty small and light truck camper and a 28 foot Vee nose. It got small, and didn't have a bathroom, but sure was nice for track work where there are restrooms, showers, etc. It got almost as bad fuel mileage as the bus, believe it or not.

The bus takes some upkeep, but it's my hobby so I do it all myself. It has around 2 million miles on it, so the basic underpinnings are pretty solid.

Brian

[Rick Kirchner]

Slideouts? From 99 on, most are pretty good. Look for hydraulics, not electrics. One important feature is the coach should be reasonably usable with the slides IN. I've seen some pretty funky floor plans from Alfa and Winnebago that were barely usable with the slides stowed.

[Daryl DeArman]

Rick, made me laugh. We both seem to be the types that will research the crap out of anything before we buy it...combing through reams or GB of data before we come to very different decisions.

The only thing better about the workhorse chassis combo than the Ford V10 is the Allison transmission. However, we are talking DP here so not really an issue.

I have a very good friend who has been a service manager at various RV dealerships over the years.

My business dealings with freight claims inspections over the years has brought me to many, many RV manufacturing facilities.

Winnebago and Alfa both make very good quality RV's in their price range.

Bounder, Tiffin and National are brands I would stay away from.

If you can find a floor plan you can live with the Safari units are nice quality. Problem as I see them is their floor plans are mostly suited for full-timer couples, not families.

Definitely stay away from electric slides. Hydraulic. If you have a HWH slides and/or levelers look for leaks. There were many faulty hoses manufactured up to about 2004 I think. HWH will still cover those hoses under warranty, but not the labor to R&R.

2004-2007 are years I would stay away from. Most manufacturers were way over capacity in those 2004-2006 years and the quality control shows. In 2007 the bottom was falling out and RV manufacturers were cutting corners everywhere they could.

Get a RV with dual pane windows.

I have towed and camped with an RV for 18 years now and never had a maintenance issue with any of them.

On that note, when considering an RV look at the price and selection of the required tires. 19.5, 22.5 and 24.5 tires vary in availability and price considerably.

Lastly, awning condition. With a couple of slide-outs, the need to replace awnings could easily add another $2-3K to your purchase price.