VW case?

[veefan]

I'm selling a lot of my FV inventory on e-bay. Someone asked is this a 1600 or 1200 block?

HELP?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201181439533...84.m1558.l2649

[Earley Motorsports]

I think if you do a search on the number on the side just under the Brazil would be able to tell what it is. Edit
From the Samba Site. With the AS 5 on it it appears to be a 74-9 1600. No guarrentee though. Just saying .

Type 2CodeYearEngine/Notes20-Pre-Jan., 195625hp/36hp
20- prefix indicates Type 2 and is not part of the sequential engine number.2, 3, 4 55-601200cc, 36hp (includes “Bastard 40hp”)5, 6, 7, 8, 91961-651200cc, 40hpO1963-651500cc - no cam bearingsH01966-671500ccL019671500cc M240 low compressionB01968-701600cc non-USA. B51968-691600cc single relief USA onlyB519701600cc dual relief USA onlyC01968-701600cc 44bhp. Non-USA. M240 low octane.AD1971-731600cc 50bhp DIN. Non-USA.AE19711600cc 50bhp DIN, 60HP SAE-gross. USA-only
AS 1974-79 1600cc 50bhp DIN. Non-USA
CB1972/731700cc - dual carb., manual transmissionCD19731700cc - dual carb., automatic transmissionAW1973/741800cc - dual carb.AW19751800cc - fuel-injectedAP1974/751800cc - European onlyED19751800ccGD1976/772000ccCJ1976-19792000cc - European onlyGE1978/792000ccCU1980-19832000cc - Vanagon styleCV1980-19832000cc - Vanagon style

[HayesCages]

In my limited opinion I don't think they made 1200 cases with the universal mount flanges.

[Dietmar]

My guess would be a universal case. Check for an AS 41 on the side below the pushrod tube holes.
Have not seen any cases with 8mm studs and no number under the generator stand "D" hole that are not the universal ( 1600) case.

Dietmar
Quixote Racing.

[veefan]

Thanks Dietmar, I think you are right but it has AS 21 on the side, any idea what the going price is now for one?

[BLS]

Has the case been race prepped? Has it been checked?

[veefan]

I found this online about the AS 21 Case.

"AS41 is the type of alloy used in the case... the only other option I know of is AS21. Pretty sure the AS21 is slightly harder than AS41... more magnesium in it I think ??? "

[veefan]

Has the case been race prepped? Has it been checked?

It has been race prepped, and was received from a Vee vendor.

[budawe]

The AS21 was developed for industrial engines and some later model fuel injected engines. It is designed to reduce malformation under stress, sometimes called "creep". If you do your own motors, you may see some chafing on the mating surfaces of the center main bearing. These marks are caused by creep or shuffling. Ballancing the lower end can reduce this issue.

When checking used cases the first thing I look at is the rear main bearing bore. If I can feel any lip in the center of the bore, it's likely the case will need to be line bored. If there is a lip, it will be more prominent in the horizontal plane. The sides of the bore. .001 out or round represents 40% reduction in desired crack to bearing clearance. I use a dial bore gauge to check cases.

I've seen prices as high as $850 for new cases and can buy used, lined bored cases for high $300's.

[Dietmar]

Here is a suggestion to be sure: measure the spigot where the cylinder fits into the case. 3.54" will give you app 90mm. That would be a 1600 case. To use it for a FV or other 1200, you would either need shims or "O' rings.

Can't comment on what it is worth- probably whatever someone is willing to pay for it. A NEW universal case ( NOT ALUMINUM) is going for 970 .

Hope this helps
Dietmar
Quixote Racing

[crypt0zink]

I asked the original question to the seller on eBay about if the case is a 1600 or 1200 . The photos didn't clearly show the markings.

My question now for the ApexSpeed/FV experts is this a good candidate for a FV motor if it's a 1200? or just pass on the AS21 case?

Thanks

[HayesCages]

We've used them in the past. But like Dietmar mentioned you have to use spacers for the cylinders. We just used high temp hydraulic O rings and placed them over the cylinders.
You have to check to see if the case will fit into your frame as well since the original ones didn't have the universal mounts on them.

[veeracer98]

Good case for a build. The as21 is the premium material.

[problemchild]

I asked the original question to the seller on eBay about if the case is a 1600 or 1200 . The photos didn't clearly show the markings.

My question now for the ApexSpeed/FV experts is this a good candidate for a FV motor if it's a 1200? or just pass on the AS21 case?

Thanks

It is a desirable case and value is ultimately determined by the condition of the bearing bores.

Your biggest problem now, is that a couple thousand more people have seen it, and your bidding competition has increased. If new cases are approaching $1K, then this case has some value. I may have to bid

[problemchild]

Where else can you buy an engine case, and combine shipping on a $40 Gorilla suit?

[Jeremy Soule]

1) What's the 2" hole with studs below the dipstick area?
2) You did see that upper cylinder stud case saver is pulled out. Inside of case is very clean and mating surfaces are all glued up like they were getting ready to build it but changed there minds, why?
3) I have an AS Brazil case but it is NOT a duel relief case, dang! forgot to check when I bought it.
Personally If you need a case I'd put an add on Craigs list and have an understanding with the seller that you could check it for cracks and mic. it before payment. I'm sure there are still more than a few VW parts in your area.

[budawe]

That's for the dip stick on a pancake,(flat) motor.

[veefan]

1) Not sure what the original VW intended function was, but a cover plate tapped for your oil temp sensor goes there.

2) The upper cylinder stud case saver is Not pulled out. It is recessed on these cases. I've owned a new Vee motor built by Autowerks and a New FST motor built by SR and the Brazilian cases all come that way. No one changed there mind, I wanted/ordered a spare buildable engine case to have on hand.

3) "I have an AS Brazil case but it is NOT a duel relief case, dang! forgot to check when I bought it." Or you can buy one that's been checked out by one of the Top engine builders for you.... which is what I'm selling.

[Jeremy Soule]

Sorry veefan, I thought it was something you were thinking of bidding on.... My bad.

Just looked my AS 21 case, the stud is recessed there too. Just referenced Tom Wilson's book " How to rebuild VW engine" says that that area was prone to cracking on earlier cases, the fix was to set it deeper into the case.
So yours is a duel oil relief valve case? Cause I'm looking. J

[crypt0zink]

Veefan, thanks for posting the question about your AS21 case here in Apexspeed. I've learned a bunch about VW cases that I didn't know a few days ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201181439533

I don't want to get off-topic, but what is the ranking for most desirable FV case, if you take out the condition variable?

[problemchild]

I don't want to get off topic either, but what size is the gorilla suit?


Any case can be good or not so good or great. You don't know until you've built the engine, used for a season, and rebuilt it.

[crypt0zink]

Any case can be good or not so good or great. You don't know until you've built the engine, used for a season, and rebuilt it.

Interesting, I've heard the theory of "The Super VW Case". More magnesium or aluminum in the casting having better tolerances and thermal properties. I'd love to hear more about the freak FV cases that have been legally raced over the years.

Problemchild, when you buy a FV case, what are you looking for?

[craigs]

I don't want to get off topic either, but what size is the gorilla suit?


Any case can be good or not so good or great. You don't know until you've built the engine, used for a season, and rebuilt it.

Same question on the suit. Looking at costumes for the Rolex 24 and thinking this may do the trick.

[problemchild]

Interesting, I've heard the theory of "The Super VW Case". More magnesium or aluminum in the casting having better tolerances and thermal properties. I'd love to hear more about the freak FV cases that have been legally raced over the years.

Problemchild, when you buy a FV case, what are you looking for?

I am no longer a builder/tuner. I have been dealing with Autowerks for 28 years, so I just do what Dave tells me to do. I usually try to keep a used decent case around (like this) in case I blow up an engine and need to get something together in a hurry. As has been noted, you need to feel for burrs where the bearing caps sit, make sure all the dowel holes are perfect, and make sure all the stud inserts are good. After that, you're trusting the machinework, assembly, and knowledge of your engine builder. You just need to hope you're not one of the unlucky guys who ends up with a case that will always be second rate.

[veefan]

To Clam any questions whether it's a prepped FV case of not check out the pic's I opened it up for your "viewing pleasure".

Extended sump, and sump tray, recessed stud... etc.

El Probemo Child, no burrs on any of the bearing seats that I could find. Ditto on that comment, "and do what... tells me to do" I've listened to Sir Dave, Sir Steve P, Sir Larry, Sir Bud and Sir Jim. Except once, and that was the only time I had a DNF!

The G suit is one size fits all Adult... aka if you fit in a VEE you'll fit!

Buy both and you'll get FREE SHIPPING!

[problemchild]

And the gorilla suit is awesome too!

[HayesCages]

Veefan, FV case "prep" involves a few more steps than the ones you've listed. That said, if we were in the market for one you wouldn't have a need to try to sell it any longer as we'd have bought it already.

[budawe]

I'd recommend an upgrade to the windage tray in the photos. It's critical to have adequate drain holes for the oil to return to the sump and that one seems short on drain back.