Criteria for becoming a Majors/National class

[rave motorsports]

I recently submitted a letter to the CRB about Formula First becoming a Majors class. Thank you for the response in the latest Fastrack. Honestly we weren't really expecting at this time to be considered as a Majors class. We realize car count probably wasn't there yet. We are working hard to build the class in several regions. I guess the real question is what should we make our target? What is the criteria we need to meet. It's hard to hit an undefined target.
Thanks

[butch deer]

I don't know that the GCR has any clear criteria for Majors classes. What I do know is the Minors(regional races) In both your conference and mine are suffering from both lack of dates and lack of entries. I also know that the race group that FST would naturally fit into has plenty of space left on the grid in both our conferences and could easily accommodate any FST cars that would care to enter.
Seems stupid for me to be sitting home when race tracks less than three hours from my home have majors with far less than full grids. Just my opinion.

[budawe]

The Majors were originally designed to provide the highest level of racing for the most popular classes in SCCA. It was the intent to concentrate competition and reduce class combinations in racing groups. The program was never intended to provide a venue for all classes. The program has been modified to be more in line with local needs and changing class participation around the country and does include a restricted regional component in some events.

If there is one thing most competitors will agree on is that many class groupings we endure during race weekends, seriously distract from the quality of the races. Opening Majors weekend to more classes will only make matters worse. The status of national classes has been a difficult and changing issue for many years. Traditionally, it has represented the classes that compete at the Runoffs and participation guidelines (the 2.5 rule), were used to determine the status of classes. That has changed over the years, and not always for the better. There is a huge disparity between the goals of regional and national racing. At one end you have, "race what you brung" racing and at the other end, are the restricted class specific types of events. Those of us on the BOD and regional management teams recognize there are markets for both types of racing that shouldn't be addressed with the same events. Hence, the two current levels of racing.

If you have read the columns in SPORTSCAR by John Walsh our chairman, you'll learn there is an ongoing program this year to establish a long term plan to determine the future of national classes in SCCA. The goal is to reduce and simplify our national class system. We recognize that this plan must include input from all the stakeholders and expect a fairly long period of gestation with membership input. We expect to publish an overview of this plan before summer's end. Stay tuned.

[butch deer]

The Majors were originally designed to provide the highest level of racing for the most popular classes in SCCA. It was the intent to concentrate competition and reduce class combinations in racing groups. The program was never intended to provide a venue for all classes. The program has been modified to be more in line with local needs and changing class participation around the country and does include a restricted regional component in some events.

If there is one thing most competitors will agree on is that many class groupings we endure during race weekends, seriously distract from the quality of the races. Opening Majors weekend to more classes will only make matters worse. The status of national classes has been a difficult and changing issue for many years. Traditionally, it has represented the classes that compete at the Runoffs and participation guidelines (the 2.5 rule), were used to determine the status of classes. That has changed over the years, and not always for the better. There is a huge disparity between the goals of regional and national racing. At one end you have, "race what you brung" racing and at the other end, are the restricted class specific types of events. Those of us on the BOD and regional management teams recognize there are markets for both types of racing that shouldn't be addressed with the same events. Hence, the two current levels of racing.

If you have read the columns in SPORTSCAR by John Walsh our chairman, you'll learn there is an ongoing program this year to establish a long term plan to determine the future of national classes in SCCA. The goal is to reduce and simplify our national class system. We recognize that this plan must include input from all the stakeholders and expect a fairly long period of gestation with membership input. We expect to publish an overview of this plan before summer's end. Stay tuned.

The Majors may have been designed to provide competition for the most popular classes but they did not turn out that way. The ones in my area at least are just another name for what used to be Nationals but with higher entry fees and a commemorative towel. They have devastated what used to be regional races in our area. Regions re4fuse to put on regional races where they lose money. My region has dropped the regional race at the track right in there home town because it loses money. Another race in my division was cancelled just a week or so ago. Whatever the board envisioned for majors they have lost that vision and will go about losing more racers if they follow this road.

[Peter Olivola]

There is another aspect of the Majors implementation that Brian didn't mention. When the BoD rolled out the Majors, giving Club Racing greater involvement in individual Majors events they also cut the Regionals program a great deal of slack, putting the regions in a position to create their own program.

Before we gather the pitchforks and torches and head for Topeka let's look at the local picture a bit more thoroughly. What have the regions/divisions done with this new freedom and how have they arrived there?

The Majors may have been designed to provide competition for the most popular classes but they did not turn out that way. The ones in my area at least are just another name for what used to be Nationals but with higher entry fees and a commemorative towel. They have devastated what used to be regional races in our area. Regions re4fuse to put on regional races where they lose money. My region has dropped the regional race at the track right in there home town because it loses money. Another race in my division was cancelled just a week or so ago. Whatever the board envisioned for majors they have lost that vision and will go about losing more racers if they follow this road.

[Amon]

Peter, Butch and Brian:

One of the problems currently and previously existing is/was the scheduling of races
on back to back weekends such as the 2013 MIS and M-O Majors race. Unfortunately,
the SCCA doesn't have the clout it use to have due the creation of NASA, BMW and
PCA clubs that vie for track time. So even if the neighboring regions sit down at a round
table to plan out the upcoming calendar, there's no GUARANTEE the dates agreed upon
are available at a given track. The SCCA has really dropped the ball regarding the enforcement
of existing rules, and I question why those rules are created, voted on and then ignored in the first place? Sorry for the ramble.... so I guess my brain's telling me I'll need a beer!

Peace...out!

Mark

[budawe]

The BOD is looking at the regional trends very closely. What does complicate that review process is that every region has different issues. On the West Coast, with the Runoffs coming, entries are up everywhere. Out here where everything is a big tow, many more folks are using the divisional programs to stay at home and qualify. In other parts of the country, moving the Runoffs seemed to have a negative impact which the BOD anticipated. Events, like the June Sprints at RA, which no longer hosts the Runoffs, has seen a reduction in entries. Other Majors events have done well.

I will agree that the elimination of Rationals did reduce opportunities for marginal events but the real question is why were they marginal events in the first place? There very well may be too many events for a shrinking population of racers. We've been told many times by national racers that they do not like running with regional folks and there are regional folks that will stay home instead of running with national folks.

There's little doubt in my mind that single class racing is preferred by most classes. To better serve this population we have to conduct more exclusive events like the one we had at MidOhio a couple of weeks ago. Regions and Topeka have to be much more creative in designing events. The "everybody comes, every weekend" type of event doesn't really seem sustainable any more. Combining other activities like PDX. Time trials with limited class road racing events may very well be in our future.

Please be assured that I and my fellow BOD members, lie awake at night trying to figure this out. We've established the event Lab as an R&D arm of the club, to look at new opportunities and programs. We're working on this and could use everyone's input. It's our club and we all have a stake in the future.

[Bill Bonow]

Before we gather the pitchforks and torches and head for Topeka........

Yep, that's Butch Deer alright, Let him get him all beer'ed up on a Saturday afternoon and he's looking to kill. We'll try to keep some control on him.

The serious conversations on this topic take place face to face with my Area Director.

[Matt King]

Combining other activities like PDX. Time trials with limited class road racing events may very well be in our future.

That describes the NASA model quite succinctly. The club that SCCA once imperiously looked down its nose at may have actually had it right.

[rave motorsports]

Yep, that's Butch Deer alright, Let him get him all beer'ed up on a Saturday afternoon and he's looking to kill. We'll try to keep some control on him.

The serious conversations on this topic take place face to face with my Area Director.

I will be in St Louis in two weeks talking with mine about this. That's why I voted for him, he is one you can have a realistic & practical discussion with and at least walk away feeling like he listened. What more can you ask for?

[BLS]

Buy Butch a sixpack and send him to Topeka...

[Amon]

By a twelve pack and I'll drive !!

[butch deer]

The BOD is looking at the regional trends very closely. What does complicate that review process is that every region has different issues. On the West Coast, with the Runoffs coming, entries are up everywhere. Out here where everything is a big tow, many more folks are using the divisional programs to stay at home and qualify. In other parts of the country, moving the Runoffs seemed to have a negative impact which the BOD anticipated. Events, like the June Sprints at RA, which no longer hosts the Runoffs, has seen a reduction in entries. Other Majors events have done well.
but the real question is why were they marginal events in the first place? There very well may be too many events for a shrinking population of racers. We've been told many times by national racers that they do not like running with regional folks and there are regional folks that will stay home instead of running with national folks.

There's little doubt in my mind that single class racing is preferred by most classes. To better serve this population we have to conduct more exclusive events like the one we had at MidOhio a couple of weeks ago. Regions and Topeka have to be much more creative in designing events. The "everybody comes, every weekend" type of event doesn't really seem sustainable any more. Combining other activities like PDX. Time trials with limited class road racing events may very well be in our future.

Please be assured that I and my fellow BOD members, lie awake at night trying to figure this out. We've established the event Lab as an R&D arm of the club, to look at new opportunities and programs. We're working on this and could use everyone's input. It's our club and we all have a stake in the future.

The recent event at Mid Ohio is what I thought Majors were supposed to be all about. I believe the event was built on the backbone of Mike Rands very successful pro series. Too bad "Club Racing at SCCA" let that idea go to the pro department. The Majors in my conference Have made no attempt at one class racing. They are just copies of the old Nationals with a few new twists but the same old multi-class race groups. The people I do see at regionals do not seem to have any intention of using them as a stepping stone to the "Runoffs" Perhaps going back to the original intent(as I thought I understood it) of the Majors offering a smaller number of classes good run groups would bring out cars that are regularly parked just as the Mid Ohio race. Then evryone else could bolster the regionals and restore some old events to the schedule.

P.S. Craft Beer Only

[Doug FST 5]

P.S. Craft Beer Only

Now that's a classic post!

Doug FST 5

[gbmetcalf]

I have a a bottle of Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale I'll throw in the mix.... plus a bunch of Beck's Sapphire.

Seriously tho I can remember the National races at the Glen in the early 80's and the paddock was overflowing. The races were one or two race groups and the racing was awesome! But......... that was before The Glen started the double yellow catch all. People quit coming to the Glen because they would get three racing laps and then the double yellow would come out and it was all over.... Not much R.O.I. there

Combining race groups isn't the only thing that has parked cars and cancled races here in the north east.

I live 20 mins. away from the Glen and love the race track but there is just so many race dates the SCCA are allowed and the track rental is out of this world. The Glen can make more money giving our(SCCA) dates to the porsche , BMW, or the corvette clubs. I think this is the way it is accross the country. It's pretty bad how far the SCCA has fallen as far as the respect we are given at race tracks we race at. In the 80's Tracks were bidding to get our races, now we are like the unwanted cousin you invited to your wedding.

JMO

G.

[reidhazelton]

The ones in my area at least are just another name for what used to be Nationals but with higher entry fees and a commemorative towel.

Don't forget the "podium" that makes me feel really awkward. Really....we have to have a podium for this?

There were towels?

[rave motorsports]

I just spoke with a potential customer of ours and SCCA from the Dallas area. These are his exact comments after trying to learn enough for the last year to make an intelligent decision about joining SCCA and buying a Formula First. " I've never seen an organization like SCCA that made a new person feel so unwanted. I have watched the forums and tried to even go see a race. I honestly feel like if you don't know the secret SCCA handshake you can never get into a race or the organization." It was my first time speaking with him yesterday. He is driving 6 hours up here to visit our shop tomorrow. He's a serious potential racer. We will do our best to mentor him through the process. Bill Noble did that for me. I have always heard for every customer that complains there are 15 that didn't say anything. We can talk about race groups and expenses and everything else but till we fix the perception that SCCA doesn't want new people the other problems will still be there. We need a mentoring program at the grassroots level. This is not going to be fixed by the National SCCA waving a magic wand. If we are going to return to the glory years we better roll up our sleeves and do something at the regional levels. Just MHO.

[BLS]

What I would like to know, is what has made this person feel "unwanted"? The first thing I discovered when I got interested again, was how nice everyone is, how people go out of their way to lend a hand, and how much alike we all are with our love for this sport. And not just in the same class. Maybe we don't reach out and grab people, but once interest is expressed it seems a certainty people go out of their way to help a new prospect.

YMMV,
Barry

[rave motorsports]

What I would like to know, is what has made this person feel "unwanted"? The first thing I discovered when I got interested again, was how nice everyone is, how people go out of their way to lend a hand, and how much alike we all are with our love for this sport. And not just in the same class. Maybe we don't reach out and grab people, but once interest is expressed it seems a certainty people go out of their way to help a new prospect.

YMMV,
Barry

And that's what we try to do here but honestly Midwest Division doesn't work that way with the exception of the St Louis Region. If not for Bill Noble I would have given up trying to get through the process. Granted that was 10 years ago. I don't have any other experience with too many other regions because that's where we are located. And we still deal with it. Here's an example from just last week. I periodically send an email to my local region of record higher ups giving them an update on the FST class. It is primarily a Solo region. Every monthly newsletter is all about Solo or cars, general stuff. So in an effort to promote Club Racing I offered to submit a monthly article about Mid West Club racing. Not just an FST promo article but updates on area Club Racing. I received a reply that was cordial and addressed some things but not so much as a mention about publishing a Club Racing update. Most people in this immediate area don't even know what it's truly all about. That said the two closest tracks to us ( both less than 3 hours) only have one SCCA race this year and both are Majors. We can't run them. I would almost guarantee we would have as many or more FST then FV at those races. Instead we tow to St Louis or Denver to go Regional Club Racing. I'm speaking of Heartland Park & Hallett. I joined Halletts own racing series COMA to be able to drive a track 3 hours from home. That's a snap shot of the attitude in the heartland.

[budawe]

SCCA.com has several options for receiving inquiries including the lead page that asks What do you want to race? The club just signed a contract to create an all new web site that will include many of the social aspects of popular sites like Facebook. Several classes rely on forums like this one to reach new folks. With all due respect to everyone here, I'm not convinced a forum like this is the best option. All too often, "keyboard commandos" take to flaming and arguing during discussions and that turns folks off.

The fv community has several websites, where folks can go and learn about the class and meet up with current competitors. The reality is that membership recruitment is everyone's job. I carry printed items that promo te and explain SCCA in my car. If I see a car club or meet folks with questions I pass out copies of Sports Car or the local magazine called the Wheel. Each year, Sports Car publishes a new member edition. Copies can be obtained from Topeka at little if any cost.

[Daryl DeArman]

Have any of the groups that do not have regional dates at tracks near them thought about joining the NASA ranks?

[reidhazelton]

What I would like to know, is what has made this person feel "unwanted"? The first thing I discovered when I got interested again, was how nice everyone is, how people go out of their way to lend a hand, and how much alike we all are with our love for this sport. And not just in the same class. Maybe we don't reach out and grab people, but once interest is expressed it seems a certainty people go out of their way to help a new prospect.

YMMV,
Barry

Its the BS, not the participants. Once you are there, everyone is pretty awesome. Getting to the track is the hard part.

I remember when I wanted to go SCCA, had raced millions of laps in karts, two years in a sedan with MC, and when I had the scratch to go SCCA, I found reason after reason I was not "ready" for a national ticket. I didn't feel it was inclusive, but exclusive.

There needs to be an "Easy Button". I do see several areas on the website orientated to new folks, even a pop up that said something like "GO RACING NOW; CLICK HERE".

[rave motorsports]

Our young driver series went the NASA way. They had too to be able to run. Honestly they have been very happy with it

[reidhazelton]

Have any of the groups that do not have regional dates at tracks near them thought about joining the NASA ranks?

Yup. I have several friends in sedans that no longer race SCCA, and they like NASA much more they say.

Good luck ever getting them back. I've tried.

[Daryl DeArman]

Yup. I have several friends in sedans that no longer race SCCA, and they like NASA much more they say.

Good luck ever getting them back

Agreed. Once they realized what it was like elsewhere very, very few see a value in coming back.

[Matt King]

Agreed. Once they realized what it was like elsewhere very, very few see a value in coming back.

It's even worse when you started in NASA like I did. Then when you do come to the SCCA, you realize why NASA (and other groups) were created.

The NASA system really is superior to the SCCA model because you can come in as a newbie with a street car and get started on track with minimal investment. Driver coaching is included in your track entry fee and you work your way up through the ranks as your skills advance.

If you never want to go racing, you will always have a home at the NASA events, but if you do want to race, you are exposed to the racing groups at all the same events where the HPDE groups run. You can see the procedures and classes first hand without having to jump in cold, so when you are ready to go racing, you don't have to decode the secret handshake or wonder where to go or who to ask for answers to your questions.

This nurturing process is a huge competitive advantage that NASA holds over the SCCA.

[Ian Lenhart]

Why does NASA cater only to tin tops and sports-racers and not formula cars?

Ian

[rave motorsports]

That's a changing attitude in Colorado. They have a race group that's small bore formula cars starting this season.

[Parker]

I had a very positive experience when I first got involved with SCCA. BUT, I think this had everything to do with outlook and expectations!

I came in as a "working" member in scrutineering without any intention of racing but with every intention of learning about the club and what goes on. I was welcomed there and have formed positive relationships within this specialty and others. I knew that effort was needed to learn about the workings of the club and that, in general, you have to pay your dues (not dollars but time) in order to start experiencing all of the benefits. Two years of working and 7 years of racing (working during those years) later, I'm still here and think things are fine except that workers are being asked to do too much.

I have observed an overwhelming attitude that this is an arrive and drive organization with huge effort from countless people all there to support your track thrill. If you think all of the people busting their asses in this club are here just so you can drive fast for the price of an entry fee, please go away.

If you want to be a real member of a CLUB where racing enthusiast are working together to have a good time and support each others' racing, please come to an SCCA event and get involved.

[witsend]

I think Parker has hit the nail squarely on the head.
SCCA is a club. The others are businesses. The club relies on it's membership to work the events, to be able to provide the insurances and safety at a reasonable price.

[Matt King]

I have observed an overwhelming attitude that this is an arrive and drive organization with huge effort from countless people all there to support your track thrill. If you think all of the people busting their asses in this club are here just so you can drive fast for the price of an entry fee, please go away.

That's exactly the problem, they are going away. There are numerous other arrive and drive organizations out there and those who seek that experience have no problem finding it. The market is speaking and the racers who pay the entry fees so there can be a racing event to work at are either staying home or spending their money with other groups. I don't see that turning around any time soon either, so it may be that the SCCA model, which has a great heritage and legacy within the sport, has run its course.

[Doug FST 5]

and when I had the scratch to go SCCA, I found reason after reason I was not "ready" for a national ticket.

Did someone say you couldn't get a license with the SCCA or you couldn't immediately have a national license?

Doug FST 5

[reidhazelton]

Yes, about 7 years ago. I came from outside SCCA and since I had not done their specific school, regional, nationals system it was a bit of a hassle to get started. Hence it felt exclusive rather than inclusive.

[Bill Bonow]

Funny, I had no problem in 1983 going from an MC full license to a National ticket. Just had to go through (1) school to satisfy the SCCA instructor/license staff.

Not saying there have not been issues over the years, just that for me this part was easy.

[BLS]

Hence it felt exclusive rather than inclusive.

Reid, I can understand that the SCCA process which does not include specific alternate paths to a license (other than a "pro" school) might seem exclusive. Personally, I don't see it being excluding. Difficult maybe, although this year the license process has been made easier. Of course with other prior experience judgments have to be made and that may be a problem depending upon which judge you get. I would guess the majority of SCCA club racers followed the normal path to a license. I certainly appreciate the changed requirements. Restarting this year I could likely have gotten a waiver for some of the requirements, but with only one school now required and 3 regional weekends, the path to a full competition license is much easier than before.

Barry

[Amon]

Barry,

Unfortunately, it's getting harder to locate an SCCA school to attend.

Mark

[gbmetcalf]

Barry,

Unfortunately, it's getting harder to locate an SCCA school to attend.

Mark

I ended up spending a bunch for a Skip Barber school.....BUT it was worth every penny.... I loved it and would go back in a second. I went to 2 SCCA schools and learned more in one day of the Skip Barber school than both of my SCCA schools.

G.

[rave motorsports]

I have gone to three days of Judy Fass school and 2 days of SCCA school. I tell our newbie customers that the SCCA school was great for learning rules and protocol but at Judy's school you learn protocol and how to drive fast.

[butch deer]

It is just an attitude thing. The SCCA has gotten better over the years but it is still old and slow. I've seen NASCAR move in a cast of literally thousands.(TRUCKS,CREWS ,DRIVERS,PRESS,TV CREWS,RACE OFFICIALS, ETC,) In less time than it takes to register and tech for a regional. I know I'm a crotchety old man but the older I get there are fewer things I think are worth waiting in line for. Pro Racing in SCCA seems to do a much better job of this than Club Racing. Perhaps they could learn from each other.

I do believe there are plenty of SCCA members willing to mentor new people. We need to do a better job of matching them up. I know many menbers who have instructed at drivers schools that have mentored there students for many years after they went top school.

Pro racing is another (but costly) alternative to Club racing. Just look at the success of Mike Rands series and the Trans Am 2 program.

[rave motorsports]

It is just an attitude thing. The SCCA has gotten better over the years but it is still old and slow. I've seen NASCAR move in a cast of literally thousands.(TRUCKS,CREWS ,DRIVERS,PRESS,TV CREWS,RACE OFFICIALS, ETC,) In less time than it takes to register and tech for a regional. I know I'm a crotchety old man but the older I get there are fewer things I think are worth waiting in line for. Pro Racing in SCCA seems to do a much better job of this than Club Racing. Perhaps they could learn from each other.

I do believe there are plenty of SCCA members willing to mentor new people. We need to do a better job of matching them up. I know many menbers who have instructed at drivers schools that have mentored there students for many years after they went top school.

Pro racing is another (but costly) alternative to Club racing. Just look at the success of Mike Rands series and the Trans Am 2 program.

Butch
The Boulevard Brewery is right on the way to Topeka!