Which engine oil to use

[Tinhat]

I just purchased a Formula Mazda. Is it ok to use Mobil Racing 0 - 50 synthetic oil?

[glenn cooper]

It has long been advised to NOT use synthetic oil in the rotary engine, due primarily to the fact that a certain amount of oil is actually injected into the engine's combustion process to aid in lubricating apex/corner/side seals.
The synthetic oil doesn't "burn" as cleanly as non-synthetic, and will have harder deposits left behind.

If any of this has changed since I last ran an FM, I'm sure we'll know soon enough.

When I ran I used BG Products 15w-40 CD rated engine oil. It's a diesel rated oil (CD Compression Ignition/Diesel), so I'm sure I was giving up some HP, w/ that weight, but the engine went for 3 log books!

I do believe STAR used to recommend straight 30w, non detergent, which always sounded weird to me, almost like a lawnmower application - I don't know why you'd ever use a non-detergent oil, anyway...

I also ran our (BG Products - I sell the stuff) 75w/90 gear oil, and it was wonderful in that application, no need to scoop out the Redline goo every time you wanted to change gears...

Enjoy the car, they are a blast to slide, umm, drive!

[wannabe]

Coop has a lot of experience across the board but there are mixed reviews on you question. He is correct about the oil usage in the engine but supplementing your fuel with a 2cycle oil and using synthetic 0-30 in cold weather and 10- 40 in summer have yielded me 5 years on a motor built in 2002 with an unknown amount of races but 40+ since I purchased in 2009. I am down on hp about 20 from a new rebuild but still hanging in there with synthetic.

[Tinhat]

Thank you for your help. It appears it is safer to use mineral oil. Really appreciate your advice.

[Hermannator]

I am another new FM owner and spent a fair amount of time reading comments on other racing sites regarding the 13b engine. There certainly is a great many opinions and they vary considerably....

I discovered as thread about the fuel additive/lubricant (IDME Pre-mix) that some racers use in the 13b engine and wondered of any Formula Mazda owners have used the premix in the past and what the experience has been?

Thanks,
John

[Darryl Wills]

I use Mobil1 15/50 or 10/30. It depends on what we have in the shop at the time.
Daryl Drummond told me that Mobil1 is the second best oil to use in our engines. He sells a Japanese oil that was specifically developed for rotary engines but I have not tried it.
My last motor went almost 3 seasons of hard racing.

[Dakar318]

because synthetics do not burn well in the rotary many people stray away from them as long as the oil metering pump is not deleted.

I am not 100% sure that the OMP is required in FM, but maybe drummonds keeps it just because injecting some is better than none. no matter what.

also, because FM's are always ran in a racing environment the deposits left from synthetics via the OMP would be less VS a street car.

you can read a million threads on the subject. I personally believe deleting the OMP and running superior synthetics with premix is the way to go for straight race applications.
the OMP is thought to drip oil in the motor, which really only goes on the center of the apex seal, premix should completely cover the apex seal which improves cooling.

another note of cooling is that alot of guys are making 500hp with water & alcohol injection and the cooling of a rotary motor has a direct effect on longevity.


the idemetsu oil and premix were specifically designed for mazdas 787B as i recall.
I believe this to be the top tier for racing oil in a rotary. i have a friend in my town that made 700hp out of his 2 rotor 3rd gen rx7 using idemetsu premix and deleted omp.

but right now i am using brad penn green oil which is a semi synthetic apparently. and premixing with nonsynthetic 2 stroke oil. some people recommend TCW-3, some do redline, some use straight weight. etc...

[Darryl Wills]

The OMP is absolutely required in FM. Drummond has told me that he has almost no parts to rebuild the pump and has recommended to the CRB to allow us to delete the item. I agree that running premix is way better for our motors but we are stuck with the rules until they make a change.

[Hermannator]

I appreciate the input.

[dougnelson]

The OMP usage can be made an option vs mandatory. The SCCA rules are subject to change by the FM manufacturer Moses Smith.

Drummond no longer has OMP pumps or lines. The pumps are known to operate improperly and or fail. At Daryl's recommendation we began adding 2 stroke Redline oil to our fuel to protect our engines.

We run 6 FM's and would like to remove the OMP system in all of our cars. We carry a new spare pump and all new spare lines we acquired with the purchase of one of our cars. We have 2 used sets on spare engines. The OMP system is expensive to replace while we spend money adding 2 cycle oil to our fuel as a precaution, counter productive.

The elimination of one more item eliminates the possibility of failure. If you wish to see the rule changed contact Moses Smith. Requesting the OMP as an option gives all drivers the choice.

I asked Daryl which oil he recommended, 10-30 Redline. Lots of opinions, we went with the engine builders recommendations.

[glenn cooper]

Is that Redline engine oil mentioned at the end of your post a synthetic?

As an aside, the Redline engine oils I have seen are actually multigrade, but the labeling only refers to the higher/hot viscosity, ie RL 40wt is 15w40.

I think ditching the MOP (Toyo Kogyo original nomenclature - "Metering, Oil Pump") and premixing w/ a Castor Based oil is a fabulous idea - Mmmmmm 70's MX!

[Raceworks]

I've always run synthetic in my cars, just be selective about which ones you use as they all burn differently in the oil injection. I used Mobil 1 10w-30 up until 7 years ago when they changed the formulation & since then I use RedLine 30wt or 10w30. I also put 2-cycle oil in the gas (usually 8oz per 5 gallon jug of fuel).

I've also heard good things about Idemitsu in rotaries. I'd avoid any of the 0w-# oils in an FM, especially if you've got the lousy idle jet set ups many people have and you've got to rev the crap out of it constantly after startup.

I haven't had any issues and the engine still runs very well even though it was last rebuilt in 2007.

On gear oil any 75w90 synthetic works well enough. Some people like the RedLine Lightweight Shockproof although as Glenn said it does leave a bit of residue in some areas that needs to be scraped off.

I change the engine oil every 4-6 track hours depending on temperatures (about 2-3 race weekends), and I pull the gear cluster out & inspect it about as often (maybe moreso if I'm changing gear ratios from track to track).

[jdhmotor]

I know this has been gone over time and time but curious if anyone has ever run Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil in their engines? Any ideas if to do so or not so. I am new to the Formula Mazda and want to make sure the engine last awhile. Yes, I still have the OMP on the car.

Thanks.

[dmccallum]

We run Penzoil 10W30. I change the oil after every weekend just to be on the safe side. I sometimes run 5W30 if it is really cold. My son Alan McCallum has had one of the fastest cars for the last 4 years and we have never had any oil related engine problems and have maintained horsepower over the last 3 seasons after rebuild. Moses will tell you not to run Synthetic.
Good luck.

[jdhmotor]

Thanks for the reply on the oil you use. Good to know. I have heard of Castrol Racing Oil being used but was curious about the Valvoline. For the past few years from Stock Cars to Dragsters, I always used Valvoline Racing Oil. Was just curious about using it in the 13B. Thanks again.

[Kazis31]

Idemitshu oils make oil specifically for rotary engines.(including heavily modified turbo applications)This is Japanese manufacturer Daryl is talking about.
All rx 7 and rx 8 racers swear by it.
I used it in my FM and PFM.
They also make fuel premix oil.
That would be my suggestion.
Proper choice.
two cents as usual with the twist.

[jdhmotor]

Thanks Mark. I have Idemitshu on order but it has been backordered until later this month. I am planning on running the car in a week and wanted to change the oil before I go. I bought the car a couple of months ago and not sure how many runs the current oil has on it. I am not one to keep changing brands of oil and like to stick to one brand such as the Idemitshu but trying to decide if to change it with the Valvoline until the other comes in or just run what is in it for the upcoming weekend.

[starfmguy]

Last time I talked to Daryl, last summer, he no longer stocks/sells Idemitsu (engine oil & gas pre-mix), so last time I got it from Mazdatrix in Signal Hill CA.

I prefer it because it is made specifically for rotaries. I think it works great too - I am starting my 7th season on my engine (if I can't be competitive, it is not the engines fault... I have other excuses, but the engine still runs pretty good. ).

Everybody has an opinion, but I feel a proper synthetic gives a little more protection, especially @ high temperatures, but a lot of guys use petroleum based oil just fine.

I use 2 oz. of pre-mix per 5 gallons of gas + the stock oil injection.

Just don't run most "racing oils", synthetic or petroleum based, as they have too many additives, mainly for valve & ring wear/lubrication, & leave too much ash & residue in rotaries (we don't need no stinkin' pistons). I used to run Mobil 1 synthetic, but just the regular type, not Race or High Mileage.

Just my opinion...