Formula Vee Challenge Cup Event # 1 Nelson Ledges

[fvee62]

If you are not aware by now, all events at Nelson Ledges have been postponed indefinitely because of the deterioration of the track surface. I have just spoken to Wilma Giesy (registrar- Westward Ho!) however, and she said that FLR is going ahead with the event until they hear differently from the track management.
There appears to be some attempt going on to possibly repair the surface and there are also rumors of a potential sale of the facility. I have no first hand knowledge on any of this however.
If you are considering registering for the Westward Ho! event I would encourage you to do so. On the last page of the MotorsportsReg entry process there is an option to “pay later” and you can register with no financial consequences or paperwork hassles if the event is cancelled.
There may be an opportunity here for us Vee racers. If the other groups are under-subscribed we may be more likely get our own group for this event, but we still must have a significant entry to get the leverage to lobby for this.
Please don’t let the uncertainty with the situation discourage you from entering. Nelson Ledges is a great race track and I am sure all of you who have competed there can agree that it has a special down-to-earth vibe that is hard to find in the racing world today. It would be a shame if it was to fade into history, but I am cautiously hopeful that this current situation may bring about a re-birth of this historic race track.
So if you are considering competing, get that entry in!
Greg Davis

[Amon]

Count me in Greg and don't forget about the FV party after the last race on Saturday! We'll have plenty of hamburgers, dogs and adult beverages for those who are racing, wrenching or spectating that weekend!

Mark

[fvee62]

I'm looking forward to the racing and the cookout Mark, and a big Challenge Cup thank you to you and Brian for hosting the festivities!

[cny317]

Im in....hope all works out...its the summer solstice, we have karma in our corner

Steve K

[fvee62]

Thanks for the support Steve. Hope your Dad is planning on coming too.

[lucky13]

Count me in Greg and don't forget about the FV party after the last race on Saturday! We'll have plenty of hamburgers, dogs and adult beverages for those who are racing, wrenching or spectating that weekend!

Mark

Right on, Mark! I'll bring Boca burgers and Tofu dogs for any non-meat eaters and whatever else Cindy says I can get. Condiments? Chips? Plates? Plastic-ware? Napkins? Just let me know.

Looking forward to it.

Matt

[fvee62]

Just wanted to make everyone who is interested aware that the FLR Westward Ho! event is going forward as scheduled.

According to a FLR source I have spoken with, the track is currently undergoing some repairs to make it suitable for racing again.

There are very few entries overall right now, but 7 Vee's are currently registered and no other classes are registered in our group. So in essence at this time we have our own defacto group. Even if they get entries from other classes, I think if we can show up in force we have a very good chance of racing by ourselves for the weekend.
So now that the cloud has lifted - get that entry in! The more Vee's entered the better our negotiating position will be, so if you are on the fence about attending, now is the time to pull the trigger.

And Steve, you were right on about the karma!

[Amon]

9 Vee's signed up so far with nearly 3 weeks to go, so sign up! Right now there's NO
other cars in our grouping so it's all vee's and we don't have to worry about the Fords,
F500's or other's at the moment. Plus I was told at M-O his past weekend that
the track surface has been repaired and improvements are scheduled.

Mark

[B Farnham]

Here is a video with the series highlights from last year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUyNeKaDiXs

Word on the street is that 1,000 ft of the track was paved which includes Oak tree.

Brian

[fvee62]

As an added bonus for the Westward Ho! races at Nelson Ledges (June 21/22), Formula Vee Challenge Cup Series sponsor Complemar Partners, Inc. is donating two $25 dollar and one $50 door prizes to be handed out at the Saturday afternoon cook-out.
This will be in addition to the four $25 door prizes generously donated by Series supporter Dennis Potocki. All that is required to be eligible is for the Challenge Cup driver be in attendance at the cook-out and enter his name in the drawing.

In other related news, track patching repairs have been completed at Nelson, but as a heads-up, there may not be a concession stand available for the upcoming race weekend. To get the most up to date info, go to the Mahoning Valley web site. There is a page by Reed Kryder devoted to the latest developments at the track.
There are currently nine Vee’s entered (and possibly a couple mailed in entries not on MotorsportsReg) and no other classes in our group, so we still have a great chance of racing alone.
So if you are on the fence, get signed up – it’s going to be a fun weekend and it will be great to once again be racing at the best grass-roots race track in the country!

[Amon]

Looking forward to it!

[John Walsh]

Update on Nelson Ledges - great Vee field for this weekend !!!

Finger Lakes Region is a "go" at the Nelsonring...but like the old days, there may be parts of the paddock that haven't been mowed yet this spring. Bring your mower and/or weed-whacker !!! (...just like the old days...). Paddock to the left of the cross-over road has been cut, but not sure that the portion to the right will be cut by this weekend.

Most of you are aware of the change in track management at Nelson Ledges in the past 6 weeks. New management has gotten a bunch of new pavement down (not patches...new pavement), but still some things (like the grass) that we may have to work around.

Also be aware...the food concession trailer folks retired last fall, and there is no current food trailer operator. Bring water, snacks etc. Remember too that the Grill & Brewing Co., the Chinese restaurant and the Dairy Queen in Garrettsville DID survive the big fire in March (the OTHER side of Main St. burned down), and they'd probably appreciate your business.

The good news is there is 1000' linear feet of brand new pavement (fresh in the last 2 weeks) - thru Oak Tree, on the way into the Carousel and on the back straight.

JW
Chief Steward for the weekend.

(changing hats...) On a separate note, I'd like to meet with all the FVee drivers sometime during the weekend to get thoughts on rule changes proposed in Fastrack for the class.

SCCA Nat'l Director - Area 10

[rgu]

What a great opportunity for the FV drivers--many more should enter and talk

[fvee62]

John,
Really appreciate your effort to reach out to the Challenge Cup drivers for their input on the proposed F-V rule changes.
Mark and Brian Farnham are hosting a cookout for Series drivers and crew after the Sat. Vee race and that would probably be the best way to have everyone together in one place. I don't know exactly what time things will get rolling or where they intend to paddock, but if you give me your cell # I could phone you sometime Sat. with those details.
Thanks again for your taking the time to include us in this important discussion.
Greg Davis

[rcarmody]

The 2014 Challenge Cup at Nelson Ledges this past weekend went off. I had a great time with the vee guys saturdays race was a bit of a mess with a big wreck in corner one with Dean and Guy thank god they where ok (red flag) Dean flipped several times but he walk a way he was a little sore Sunday. Sunday race saw Guy Winning but the battle for second place was hot and heavy between Ray Carmody, Greg Davis, Pete Neilson, and Dennis Potocki with Ray getting the position in the end. Guys that and rough weekends but where doing well was Mark Farnham while leading his motor went away. Steve Kawsnick who was chasing electrical problems. I need to thank the Farnhams for the Saturday gathering, good food and beer also a shout out to Dennis for putting up $100.00 for the drawing, and Rob Delpama for putting up prize money and the T-Shirts and stickers for the cars. Greg thanking you for all your hard working trying to get the series moving great looking trophies your hard work is starting to pay off. Also a shout out to John Walsh for coming and Hanging out with us Saturday night and talking to the guys about FV changes John is arae 10 director its nice to see that some official take an intrest in there customers. I ran on the canadian radials all weekend and had a lot of fun on the tires thank you Guy for letting me use them. Hopefully the other guys will come on here and give a little report also. Next event Mosport. Again thanks guys for a fun weekend just a bunch of guys having fun with there formula vees.

[Amon]

Ray,

We had a great time this past weekend and I enjoyed dicing with Dean during the Qual. race. I'm glad everyone involved in the wrecks walked away okay, but a little
sore I imagine Sunday morning! Thanks to Greg Davis for organizing the weekend,
Dennis Potocki for his monetary donation and Rob DePalma for the sponsorship and
shirts! Not to be forgotten are Guy Bellingham and Greg for the important BEER donation and John Walsh for meeting with us and getting our opinion on the status
of upcoming possible Vee changes etc....


Mark


Citation 88V -002' #66

[fezzic181]

Thanks for the show guys. Corner 10 and 7. That 3 way battle looked like a good time. Couldn't have put another car between you guys the whole session.

[fvhopeful]

Looks like you guys had an action packed
weekend. Glad to hear Dean is ok.
I hope he can make the trip up for the July
Race . It will be interesting to hear his story.
After a few Canadian beers EH.
Ray were any of the other guys on radials
If so what were the impression of them
Congratulations on the series and look forward
To the July event.
Cheers
Desmond

[rcarmody]

Yes I was on the radials I enjoyed racing on them I felt that I was did real well on them the best thing about them I did not change a tire all weekend just drove the car I am hoping more guys start using them, I felt I could keep up with the guys each time I went out on them we went faster. Dean started the second race on them he ran two laps before his wreck but he seemed postive about them and he is planning on running them when he comes back out. I thought the radials are about 3-4 seconds off the slicks, but who cares if everyone is on them we will all save it was fun to be sliding around and hearing them squealing throught the corners. The big difference is getting up off the corners with them (the weight) and the draft you punch a big whole in the air know, like I said who cares if everyone is on the its the same for everyone. Oh did I mention that my tire budget for the weekend was $0.00 and still had a blast.

[Amon]

Ray,

I like the concept of the radials (not their looks), but wondered if there are
any similiar tires that offer better performance (lap times) with the same
tire wear from the MFG. that produced the tires you used? I don't know my
times from the Sat. main race, but you were 5 seconds off Dean's and my times during the Sat. Qual. race, and I would prefer not to go much slower if it could be prevented by using a faster tire? Otherwise, I like the concept of tires that can be
used the entire season or two. What changes in your suspension set-up did you have
to make for the dry races you ran this weekend?

Mark

[fezzic181]

Checked:
BFG
Yokohama
Bridgestone
Firestone
Goodyear
Continental
Pirelli
None of these have 200 rubber in 195/60 14s.

[fezzic181]

Might be interesting to know how FV1200 group came to that tire as their choice.

[Amon]

Mark,

I'm not positive, but I believe our neighbors up north run these tires in their series.

Mark F.

[fezzic181]

Correct. I was wondering if anyone had any info about why they picked this brand over another in perhaps a different size. You get a lot more choices if you go with a 15 inch rim.

[rcarmody]

Mark remeber I was using the weekend as a test session for the tires each time I went out I got faster they are slower but with a little more time I would have gotten faster. The reason for the falken tire is because of our friends acrossed the border trying to make it so we can race up there and they can run down here. I had a lot of people that looked at the car this weekend and said the car looked better with the bigger tires. For that weekend no one really did a good fast time or should I say no one was consistant, On sunday no one set a good time Guy was just a tick quicker on the slicks then me but the times were not good. The falkens are slower but the saving is worth the slower times I will be able to race more weekends, but if the guys that do not want to run the tires I will go back to the sepc tire we run now Hoosier 45 or 55 Our goal in the challange cup was to try and cut cost so guys could run more. All I know is that I had a good time racing with the guys this past weekend Greg,Pete and Dennis and Myself must of past each other 20-25 time side by side racing a lot of fun. The tire will not work for everyone taste but we all have choices.

[problemchild]

Finding a tire with such small circumference is the challenge. Once the Falkens were tried, they were keepers. Inexpensive and last forever without noticeable improvement or fall-off when they do wear.

You won't find a 15" tire to fit on a 4" wheel. Tire selection for 13" is minimal so 14" wheels are obvious choice to keep weight and cost of wheels down.

[Amon]

Ray,

Thanks for the response! I wasn't trying to criticize as I believe this direction might be the way to go for regional racers in the near future. I'm going to build up a Zink that I
mentioned to you this past weekend, and will seriously consider running it with Falkens
next year once it's completed over the winter. Do you know what times you we're
setting yesterday afternoon after having some time to get comfortable with the tires?

Mark

[fezzic181]

I was timing from station 7. I was seeing 1:22s

[fezzic181]

Think that was from the morning session not the race.

[rcarmody]

The fast time was a 1:21.000 I did a 1:21.100 I really think I could have gotten into the 19s. I was trying to figure out the braking I keep overdriving the corners on the radials, I did find that in the fast sweepers I had no problem with grip I could drive the car as hard as I do on Slicks. the problem was getting them to get out of the tight corners, the last corner coming on to the front straight evryone would pull me but I was able to catch back up through one and two, then same thing would happen in oaktree once I started down shifting for three and pull myself up out of the corner I could keep pace with the guys on slicks as for the carousal the car moved around a bit more on the radials and I would have to lift more then I usually do but I think I can fix that problem I did not have the right spring that I wanted to change too I would have gone up on the spring rate. I really should have done a test day. The only thing I do not like about the tires is the weight I was probably 75-80 pounds heavier then everyone else hence why I could not get out of the corners as fast as you guys, but if everyone is on them who cares great racing all I know is they are fun to drive on you can drive the car just as hard on the radials as you do on slicks. If you want to try another tire or rim that would be alright I really do not care what tires we run just trying to use what has already been proven in Canada, no one has to run the falkens remeber its an option for the formula vee challange series Greg and I are just trying to get car counts up, the series has five weekend most of them are 4 weeks apart just a bunch of old vee guys trying to go racing without all the BS. If the series does not work no one can say we did not try.

[fezzic181]

I was used to seeing only 2 or 3 vees at regionals at Nelson till you guys started this thing last year so it looks like it's work to me.

[fvee62]

Ray, I think you deserve praise for your pioneering use of the Falkens in the U.S. I know how competitive you are and it was a leap of faith for you to run them at Nelson not knowing how they would perform. You definitely made a point.
I also want to once again thank the Farnham's for hosting the Saturday cookout - the burgers and dogs were excellent and it was great hanging with everyone after the day's race - we certainly had things to discuss! Thanks go out to Guy for bringing a supply of Canadian beer and I think Dennis needs another nod for his $100 door prize donation.
The Sunday race was one of the best I have ever been in and just the antidote for my faux-pas on Saturday (apologies to you once again Ray).
Finally I would like to mention once again that none of this would be happening this year without the generous financial support of Complemar Partners Inc. My thanks go out to Rob DePalma for everything he has done in making the 2014 Formula Vee Challenge Cup a reality.
On to Mosport!

[Amon]

Good news! It doesn't appear that I lost the motor as previously thought! Brian and I were
getting it ready to pull tomorrow night and he found the exhaust had broken at the #1 exhaust port flange, and the noise I heard was vibration from the broken header. We're pulling the motor due to the #2 oil ring going bad, but it doesn't appear too bad which is good news since the motor is very strong! Whewwww!!

Got very lucky!

Mark

88'-002 Citation #66

[rcarmody]

With all post above sounds like everyone had a good time that what its all about. Good news for Mark and Brian on motor, so does that mean you are going to Mosport?


Ray C

[Amon]

Ray,

When is Mosport? I doubt I can make it since I'm not taking any chances with the motor and will have it rebuilt and have the #2 oil ring replaced since it appears to
be the suspected cause of the smoke...unless they have a large amount of mosquitoes
up North, then I can come up with the Citation and fog them out with my exhaust!

Mark

88' Citation 002' #66

[John Walsh]

First, thanks for coming to Nelson Ledgistan and supporting the weekend. No shortage of issues there lately, but we all love the place and it would be a shame for it to wither away.

I "got" most of the points about parts availability (beams, brakes). To the point that was raised re: "young guys call and order stuff, and old guys horde stuff", give me some guidance here...

http://www.cbperformance.com/Product...oductCode=6285

Are these unsuitable for the class ? Just trying to understand...not starting an argument.

Thanks too for explaining your concerns about proposed changes. Remember what I said...what's important to the CRB and the BOD isn't the discussion on Apexspeed, but rather the input received via the CRB letter system -

http://www.crbscca.com/

JW

[Amon]

John,

I have six of those beams and if anyone wants to send me 3/4 th's of what their asking, I'd be glad to part with several of my non-Citation beams.

Mark

[FVEE56]

Sounds like Nelson Ledges was a lot of fun. Wish we could of made the event.
Mark you calendar's for August 9th and 10 for the Formula Vee Challenge Race at the newly repaved Pocono raceway. We have a Formula Vee only group. New friendly (to the SCCA) management also.

[Amon]

Planning on both Brian and myself being there with our Citations!


Mark

[BLS]

John,

The front beams seem to be a moving target. Suppliers often list them but do not have them, can't say about the CB one listed. Sometimes they are "refurbished", sometimes new. One problem is the type, Brazilian made beams seem to all have plastic bushings at the torsion arm while the original have needle bearings which I think are preferred. Of course the beam availability is just part of the equation, there are the torsion arms which I never see "new", and spindles which seem to be available but are of questionable quality (Chinese made).

Used front end parts are around, in the hands of FV racers. The problem, it seems to me, is that many prefer to purchase new parts off the shelf and are not interested in refurbishing items or using used ones.

YMMV,
Barry