Pinto Upgrades

[RSS]

I think we all knew the Zetec was the best choice currently but us lowly little regional guys didn't know to what extent. Even with all the info here on Apex we where shocked by how much faster the blueprinted Zetec was.

Scenario
Our regional group of FC's was 100% pinto last season we all generally chase Gcoffin as he has one of those monster pintos. Group of about 20-30 cars ish sadly never at one time but that's how many are rolling around out here.

Off season Zac.B buys a Zetec and so do I.

We roll up to our first race at Gcoffin's home track (Spokane) which is very much a HP track long straights not to many turns. We all run pretty much fully trimmed out wing wise only slight differences would be gearing. Which after checking was fairly close as well.

On Grid in Video
1. Zac.B 2002 VanDiemen Zetec (Blueprint)
2. Gcoffin 1999 Mygale Pinto (Big Pinto)
3. RSS 2004 Mygale Zetec (Crate Motor) - Camera car

Here is the video of Race 1 watch the first couple laps. This is Zac.B running 2.5sec slower than his fastest laps of the weekend while Greg runs about 0.5 sec off his fastest and i am about 0.2sec of my fastest laps.

http://youtu.be/KyWM9PFrBho

Now with a new car i didn't expect to beat Greg and i am within striking distance so pretty much where i wanted to be. Zac on the other hand brought a hand grenade to a knife fight by accident and pretty much nobody has a chance to catch him without a blueprinted zetec.

So how does this effect SCCA not at all as our group generally doesn't run SCCA other than this season due to the runoffs. But for anyone thinking of getting a zetec to run at the top of your regional group you may ended up all alone out front.

[LAJ]

Look you are NOT REGRINDING you are going to buy an off the shelf cam!! I would not pay an engine builder to make a cam I can buy off the shelf for less than half the cost!!

1.Racer Walsh 2.0 # 1 cam through #3 cost a whopping $182.
for the #1 mild cam pull out your old one put in the new one period.Few more ponies and Torque let's go racing

Lee

[Modo]

Zetec - I would believe you guys if u told me that a Zetec guy didn't refresh/check his motor before the runoffs, don't believe the magic Zetec endurance at all, (probably wrong from what I have read) ........ so those to be have successfully changed a Formula and pick the horsepower de Jour, don't talk to the right people, no horsepower, don't up for the latest load, your effort is crap .............. I presume Mike, that as a scrutineer, you had a computer to verify the ECU loads, don't have that at a Regional, doubt some Nat'l levels now, would probably get huh!!, what!! we Mazda guys ....... ....

Posto: darn, told myself I wouldn't get into this, take a cloudy drizzly day and start pushing keys, carry on folks!!!! ..... going to change the sway bar bushings in my Beasty 40 MPG Corolla, sunroof, leather seats, and 5 on the floor for an extra 3 MPG, oh well!!!

[blackbmwk1200r]

Here is the video of Race 1 watch the first couple laps. This is Zac.B running 2.5sec slower than his fastest laps of the weekend while Greg runs about 0.5 sec off his fastest and i am about 0.2sec of my fastest laps.

http://youtu.be/KyWM9PFrBho

If I understand this correctly, Zac B actually turned a lap 2.5 sec faster than the pace we are seeing in the video while Greg's fastest lap was less of an improvement at .5 sec faster than the one shown on the video.

While our team is undoubtedly less experienced than Greg's, from a car perspective there are strong similarities. 2001 Mygale. Pinto engine that Sandy with Quicksilver considered a strong national level engine prior to it being run in the Pro series. I believe it remains pretty strong as it sits or at least could be returned to the same strong national engine level with some work and dyno time.

I'm curious about Greg's thoughts on again expending the funds and effort needed to prepare the car as it is seen in the video to then be faced with another in class blue- printed Zetec that has such an apparent power advantage.

That's our current dilemna. Continuing to spend money on a pinto powered car that has no chance of being competitive and... in very short order will need more of the same. So we are currently exploring other options in and out of open wheel racing. If our pinto could be made competitive and last longer we would continue to invest in the car.

[Phil Creighton]

Like Frog says there are probably only about a quarter of all the FC cars active. Some, not that many have ended up as FF and F1000 cars I think. We have two here that havn't run for two+ years - not because of rules, Rossella's schedule running the technical support for the Ferrari 458 program means races on all the key Club weekends since World Challenge allowed GT3 cars on top of her IMSA duties.

I still believe its easier to peg the Zetecs rather than make the Pintos spend money. I still think a map change would do it. I'm pretty conservative about spending money to end up where we should have been in the first place

Phil

[Purple Frog]

RSS, One question. Was anybody there to tech the map and restrictor on that zetec? A car with a Cooper map, or the wrong restrictor will haul freight.

[ccoffin]

RSS, One question. Was anybody there to tech the map and restrictor on that zetec? A car with a Cooper map, or the wrong restrictor will haul freight.

Rss checked zac.b's map at the track.

Zac is checking his restrictor sometime soon.

[kea]

I still believe its easier to peg the Zetecs rather than make the Pintos spend money. I still think a map change would do it. I'm pretty conservative about spending money to end up where we should have been in the first place

Phil

[RSS]

As Charlie said I took Zac's Map and ran it in on the last day no difference to my car. I have yet to check my restrictor size and am kind of hoping i have the old 1.28? What was the cooper/pacific restrictor? Also how many different restrictors are out there?

Zac's car is Al Guibords old car so i would assume that it has the current 1.34 restrictor in it unless they took it out before selling.

If i do have the smaller restrictor in mine that might be our solution as with a little tweaking i think i can bring my car up close to Gcoffins lap times. Throw the sames restrictor in Zac.Bs car and maybe he will come back closer to the pack as well.

[blackbmwk1200r]

Keith and Phil,

From what I understand based mostly upon reading prior year Apexspeed threads, pinto FC owners were disenfranchised through the engine parity process and subsequent developments despite the stated specific intention of those regulating the process not to do so. There is a significant cost to all pinto owners in the loss of competitiveness and therefore enjoyment of our sport and undoubtedly as well in the market value of our asset. I’m on board with that and definitely wish it were different. I suspect but am not in a position to really know but to some extent, maybe significantly, this has impacted participation by pinto FC owners.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think there is any reasonable chance that a decision will be made to remap, restrict or add weight to the Zetecs with the intention of returning us to the point where we can be competitive. Irrespective of whether I agree or disagree with it from a fairness perspective to now place the burden on us to upgrade our cars, I welcome the opportunity to do so because for me it would be the better of the options I now see available to me.

Sid

[Stan Clayton]

I still believe its easier to peg the Zetecs rather than make the Pintos spend money. I still think a map change would do it. I'm pretty conservative about spending money to end up where we should have been in the first place

Phil

The counterpoint to this argument is to ask what is the baseline national engine, and to ask when SCCA is going to adopt it as the benchmark for the class? You know, Phil...like what you did as CRB Chairman when the Pinto displaced the aircooled VWs and the motorcycle powered FCs (what eventually became FB).

If I'm still recalling correctly, competitive national racers quickly converted/bought new when it became apparent the Pinto was the best choice, and the other options faded quickly.

It has now been 20+ years (1993 IIRC) since Ford last cast a run of iron Pinto 2000cc blocks and heads for Club racers, and 1974 since it was used in a production Ford car! The Zetec has been running in F2000 since 2002 and has been the de facto benchmark engine in FC for about 5 years now, with all or nearly all Runoffs competitors running it in recent years, so why not explicitly designate it the benchmark and move on?

IMO the Club pays excessive deference to legacy engines/chassis in too many classes, with the unintended consequence of stifling growth in them, and perversely, contributing to the continuing proliferation of new classes.

Competitors get tired of waiting for the Club to update the rules and eventually lobby for a new class, which lowers average class participation, leading to further entrenchment of the remaining competitors in the class, leading to more people leaving it or not joining it, leading to further retrenchment, etc., in a downhill spiral. We saw it in FF until the Honda Fit came along, we saw it in FC until the Zetec came alone, and we're seeing it in FV.

In contrast, Enterprises came up with an upgrade plan for the SRF, telling people the new engine is 50 lbs lighter and has 15 more horsepower, so if you want to run up front BUY A NEW ENGINE. The changeover is so popular that people are paying up to $2000 EXTRA to get in at the head of the conversion line. There is a 3-year overlap, but there is no hand wringing over the cars no longer coming out to the track.

Likewise, GT1 recently approved all the former Trans-Am cars, telling the GTA and SBC guys to upgrade or run at the back.

My point? If a class wants to stay vibrant and healthy it needs to look ahead and come up with a plan, communicate the plan, then implement the plan. IMO focusing on prolonging that shining moment of glory from the past is a prescription for disaster.

[Zac.B]

I finally found a few minutes to check what restrictor was in it. It has a 1.34!

[glm34]

Irregardless of who runs Zetec and who runs pinto is related to the league you are in and your experience for the most cars. Let's be real. The pro guys require the better equipment and cars, which results in the Zetec's and newer chassis. As for a regional racer I understand that there will be a mixture of the two motors. My goal is to drive safe, get quality seat time, and learn how to drive. I like the simplicity of a pinto motor. No ECU, no fuel injection, and the pinto is easier to troubleshoot. This allows me to focus on driving and learning how the car responds. When the time is right I will upgrade to a Zetec. Simple put, there is regional racing and their is pro racing.

[S Lathrop]

Mike:

The question that you asked is "why are so many Pinto powered FC staying home". Maybe the issue is not the relative performance of the Pinto powered cars and Zetec powered cars, but having to compete against FE, FM, and whatever else is on the track at the same time. Maybe it is the events and class groupings that is keeping older FCs off the track.

At one time, FC with Pinto power was the only game in town. FAs were enough faster that racing with them was not an issue. Now we have divided the market into 3 groups. But mixing FC, FE and FM is not a happy situation with the FE and FM faster on the straights and the same or slower in the corners relative to the FC.

I can say that my parts business is much better with the mixed groups when my customers go club racing.

Bumping the power up or down in FC won't solve the fundamental problem of the FC participation at the club level. Now if you proposed removing the restrictors on the Zetec engine and bumping Pinto power accordingly where the FC, FM and FE all went down the straights at the same speed, then you might be looking at a solution.

I am not advocating this as a solution but just something to discuss.

After following this thread, I don't think there is a solution and that opinion is based on the facts of club racing today. The races have to be fun to attend and the fun quotient is way down in SCCA Club racing for FC owners.

[Bob Wright]

Dave W, Stan and Steve are circling the fundamental issues of the discussion on this thread.

Now, just to throw a monkey in the wrench, add to the mix Roblav's reference to the 'next' FC motor. The Zetec is more than 20 years old and has been timed out (no more OEM parts supply requirement per FTC rules). The rules are about to be changed to add aftermarket internal parts because the originals aren't available anymore- not the original concept of the Zetec. There are newer, better motors out there (some of which are already in these cars in one form or another).

So, here we are talking about the Pinto, a 40+ yr old tractor motor, when the "new" Zetec is in need of replacement in the not too distant future. As Stan referenced, Time marches on and either the class keeps up, stays vibrant and healthy or atrophies and dies. The FC class is coming back- there are new chassis builders and cars being sold, but they don't have Pintos in them, and soon, they may not have Zetecs in them.

So, there are inexpensive aftermarket parts that can boost HP and lengthen service life of the Pinto- lets use them. If a $500 carburetor, a $200 cam or a motor rebuild is keeping a car in the garage, then it shouldn't even be counted in this discussion, because its never going to be raced anyway.

As an aside, but maybe somewhat relevant to this discussion- I just bought a 1982 PRS FF that sat in a barn unraced for 20 years. I'm rebuilding it and plan to race it in regionals and vintage events for fun with a Kent motor. It takes money, time and commitment to do that. How many other cars like that are sitting there waiting to be resurrected?

[Modo]

Missing the main objection for many in the FC class, think u can work on the 'Fit', being able to fix/work on your engine and not being hostage to builders and the price of the hour, ................. many may not be able to afford sending it back for service and tagging ............. I think the FE guys have time worries if something happens and an upfront team may have to buy 2 motors so stuff doesn't happen .............. i.e. scuff a bearing may require a simple disassembly and new crank or turn and bearings, not much if u do it urself!!!! HP could remain the same for simple parts replacement ............. anyway ......

[Westroc]

First I have had 3 cars running Pinto engines. What p/o's me most is this stupid rule about stock bore. So you score and now it's a grand. Talk to an engine guy and they don't understand why we can't just go 10-30 over. Look if you can drive do you think 30 over against you will make you loose? Really?

The cam or head gasket I would be in favor of.
Bottom line yeah I would like the Zetec guys to change but bluntly we all know none will and they have the votes not us Pinto guys so that's over. I can make weight with a driver at 200 AT 1175 but will spend money. Just drop it 20 and it makes that easier for me anyway.
Why aren't guys showing up. 1 Zetec guy shows up and it's all over that weekend- that's part of it.

[racerdad2]

As, perhaps, the lowest budget racer, the cam, long rods - pistons & over bore all make good sense to me.

[RSS]

The cam or head gasket I would be in favor of.
Bottom line yeah I would like the Zetec guys to change but bluntly we all know none will and they have the votes not us Pinto guys so that's over. I can make weight with a driver at 200 AT 1175 but will spend money. Just drop it 20 and it makes that easier for me anyway.
Why aren't guys showing up. 1 Zetec guy shows up and it's all over that weekend- that's part of it.

Well not exactly none of the Zetec guys. As we are currently discussing this option for our group and all of the Zetec drivers are on board(Both of us). We have no wish to be out front alone we would much prefer to mix it up in the pack. The pointy end of the pack but still in the pack.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Well not exactly none of the Zetec guys. As we are currently discussing this option for our group and all of the Zetec drivers are on board(Both of us). We have no wish to be out front alone we would much prefer to mix it up in the pack. The pointy end of the pack but still in the pack.

That is a great attitude - but that is NWFC, right? An unusual group of great guys having a great time in the great Northwest. And that is the spirit of competition. Winning is less important than great racing.

But that is not the SCCA. You Z to P ratio is opposite. And like FB, people are spending 2 to 3x the next guy to get that edge. We all know racing is a money game....

I still think the engine debate is much more complicated than it needs to be. Its like the rules were design by lawyers and politicians. Special interests....

So, what wouldn't a single size restrictor work? Everyone runs a restrictor. Since the cars are essentially the same, does it really matter what cam/carb/bore/stroke you are running? Sure, someone can design in low end torque, but that sacrifices top end speed.

Engines should die because of lack of original parts when aftermarket replacements are available cheaply. That is not in the true spirit of racing....

[Alex Zeller]

I run a F2000 Pinto (88' Citation) in Ontario on a tight budget. For me, reliability and running costs are the most important aspects of an engine (and I suspect many others). I can't get too upset when someone in a newer car with a newer motor (Zetec) run's quicker than me. At the end of the day I'm racing a car that is nearly 30 years old, with a 40+ year old tractor engine. The engine is only one of many compromises I make to go racing.

Like it or not, the Zetec cars are now the benchmark of the class and newer options are now being discussed. Anyone who could afford the conversion has already done so. It's likely that anyone who is still running a pinto car isn't doing it because they love changing points and adjusting jetting!

That said, I want to feel I can have a fair chance to run competitively against the newer cars for the very reason as they are the benchmark and I need to compare my progress against the best.

If changes are desired, I would like to see the rules evolve to promote the Pinto powered cars as being good option for the wings and slicks club racer on a budget (which is what they are). Many of the perspective rule changes that have been mentioned should serve to lengthen the duration between rebuilds, lower the rebuild costs, reduce running costs, and lastly increase the power a bit.

Whatever is done, changes must not disenfranchise the average Joe club racer. Particularly financially. The pinto is already a good solid reliable engine. Any changes should aim to enhance that attribute.

Cheers

[marshall9]

No dog in this hunt, but an opinion. Obviously at the Runoffs and Pro levels, Zetecs do and will prevail.

Where is it cast in stone forever, that CFC has to be based on age and such? How about CFC being Pintos in their current engine rules configuration as a Regional class?

CFs can run FF in Majors, right? I remember someone (Rand?) running an old Crossle in the Runoffs, right?

[DaveW]

No dog in this hunt, but an opinion. Obviously at the Runoffs and Pro levels, Zetecs do and will prevail.

Where is it cast in stone forever, that CFC has to be based on age and such? How about CFC being Pintos in their current engine rules configuration as a Regional class?

CFs can run FF in Majors, right? I remember someone (Rand?) running an old Crossle in the Runoffs, right?

Never happen - it makes too much sense.

Seriously, it sounds to me like that could be a really good idea.

[Purple Frog]

I'm back.
A few remarks about posts above....
A single size restrictor will not work on a pinto and zetec. One is two valve per cylinder, the other is four, fuel injection, vs carb, etc., etc.

Just turning Pintos as they exist into a CFC class ain't going to cut it folks. First off, that is a regional only class, so it won't help the pinto guys that want to run big events such as majors, June Sprints, Runoffs, etc. Secondly, the CFC class will die off in one season when somebody rolls up with a late model chassis, and Niki's last super pinto motor.
(e.g. DB-6s killed CFC in the SEDIV when the year cutoff was 1991.)

I too am in favor of allowing an oversize bore of ~.030. to extend the life of many blocks. But we would have to specify the piston allowed.

********

Since I have been hiding two days and I see Bob is monitoring... I'll drop another bomb
of an idea:

The current carb acts as a restrictor, pure and simple. How about allowing two sidedrafts* on the current pinto? Hp should be possibly 160 with current cam and compression. A twin Weber sidedraft kit with linkage and manifolds will run about $1,250. At the same time we uncork the zetec, and let it bounce back up to the 160 it was at in 2005.

Hold on and let me say why this is a good idea. If we add a new bigger two barrel as I proposed last week it is true that it will work best if the engine is handed to a builder with a dyno and they massage the squirt tubes to get each cylinder running at the same temp. There are valid reasons that currently a great pinto carb costs $200-$300 to get tuned. And if it works on one engine it may not work when bolted on another engine (it is that precise to be great) It is the problem with the stock pinto intake manifold that was designed to go get groceries at 2000 rpm. That tuning excercise is expensivish. BUT, if you bolt on two sidedrafts, each cylinder has its own jets and venturi and it will be very close right out of the box. It could be accomplished at home.

All that would take is an engine builder to take a top shelf pinto, bolt on the sidedrafts, and come up with baseline jets, and tell the community. And, I know one who would be willing to do the work. (this engine has been built for a FS car in the mid-west) At the same time we would know fairly accurate HP numbers for comparison sake. If it is a HP or two above the zetec, so be it. It would help make up for the zetec's fuel injection and better torque.

Why is 160 HP a better idea? Ten years ago FC was the premier class and this site was called F2000.com for a reason. This change sets the FCs out in front of the gaggle of FMs, FEs and such. This responds to the point Steve Lathrop made. Not FB speeds, but a bunch of fun, and within the scope of the current gearbox. A lot more attractive car.

*OBTW, a chassis that can't easily handle two sidedrafts because of frame rails or rollhoops, could run two downdrafts (they exist).

I figure this proposal will bring out the torches and pitchforks...

[RobLav]

Pinto in CFC was where I was heading when I previously brought up the new FC engine (all related).

[Dennis McCarthy]

All that would take is an engine builder to take a top shelf pinto, bolt on the sidedrafts, and come up with baseline jets

Already done!


http://bit.ly/1lMAUl6

[Purple Frog]

Dennis, I knew about the JagerBomb, but didn't want to mention it without permission.

[Dennis McCarthy]

We are in the testing process now....

[racerdad2]

Those carbs look great ! As does the car !

[gcoffin]

I am not an expert, but it would seem that the rebuilds currently being done while legal, are outside the spirit of the rule as stated. And as Ford is no longer supporting the engine, aftermarket stuff will creep in as well. So pretty soon there will be a few monster ztecs out there and all the normal ztec guys will be squealing and decide to stay home.

Once The spirit of the ztec rule was ignored this was pretty much a done deal. Basically it is a rule that cannot be verified and relies on the very people who have the most to gain to interpret what the spirit of the rule is.

My interpretation is if you are expecting a performance gain over a crate motor .......

I just consider myself lucky that I am racing with RSS and Zac and the rest of the guys in NWFC. I am pretty sure that with the objective of tight competitive racing in mind we will slow down the front runners and speed up the guys behind. As there have been lots of good ideas presented here for doing just that.......with little or no cost I might add. I recon we should also consider a weight adjustment for CFC cars running in NWFC as most of the guys in older cars are pretty skinny 1175 might be possible.

[Purple Frog]

My understanding is that with the current legal intake system and the proper restrictor, the zetec is pretty well contained in terms of future power gains. If built to factory manual specs, even if blueprinted, it just can not produce more power without a way to get more air.

[Rick Kirchner]

Will be interesting to see how many miles Dennis can go on a fast track with those carbs. With a collector box in my tank (admittedly, a bit short of the original volume because replacement tanks are often a tad smaller) 19 laps of Willow Springs left me with 1 qt in the tank - and that was with the old steel head, not the current aluminum one.

[gcoffin]

Frog, you are correct there is a finite amount of energy that can be produced from a finite amount of oxygen, hydrogen and carbon. No amount of balancing or blueprinting will change that. The only thing that changes is the amount of energy at the fly wheel.

[CJD]

[QUOTE]
Never happen - it makes too much sense.

Seriously, it sounds to me like that could be a really good idea. ]
[/QUOTE

[Jnovak]

I like Mr frogs idea of dual side drafts.

[Modo]

No, you are doing this because you goosed the HP for the pro series and owners don't know/remember the club map restrictor rules, Zetecs not allowed in majors unless u prove you have the Wright/Sandy club map/restrictor, extra $10 at registration to buy the scrutineers lunch ............. $5000 or so of the change for one guy from Pinto to Zetec was for proper glasswork, that would have to happen with the sidedrafts (not that much) not the mention the development, "Oh we have 5-6 more HP now above original sidedrafts" we have to goose the Zetecs again ........... I like the GCR quote from the guy that said no BLUEPRINTING, spot on when Zetec into FC comp, I take it the Zetec owners/builders can't read, hope someone challenges the runoffs winner's car ........ ain't we special, we had the bucks to change to a Zetec and then started cheating, easy as a keystroke/blueprint!!!! ......

how about you scrap the Pinto rules and we are allowed to equalize the horsepower ourselves, any way we want ...... that may fly, see u later even if u do the 190hp keystroke/map ......

give Williams and Taylor some gearbox business!!!!

[2BWise]

The engine builders I have talked with now say the power from a newer Zetec is outside the reach of even the best legal Pinto.
Just making up numbers... the best pinto is around 149, vs. a zetec at 155. YMMV

Problem: Is there really a problem? Do Pinto owners care? Would they come out more if given a HP increase? For this thread let's say a HP increase for the Pinto would be a good thing.

Solution: I have done some research with pro engine builders.
The easiest solution offered so far has two parts.
1. Allow the larger Weber. The current allowed Weber venturis are actually a restrictor to getting any more out of the engine. The larger Weber is not to expensive in the big scheme of things. And it is a bolt-on change.
2. Allow an increase in compression of about 1 point. Most pinto guys are already burning ~110 octane racing fuel, which is well within the needs of the compression boost. A compression boost may make running 100 octane Av-gas problematic.

So, this was the original proposition. Why don't we stick to this. All these other ideas/concepts/crazed musings are not helpful to the original questions. If we want to ponder the reasons Pinto cars aren't showing up then let's discuss that elsewhere.

Is there a problem in regards to Pintos in club racing. IMO, no. The guys that want to race are out racing. Would it be nice to have a few more, easy horsepower, for sure just in the event that we want to run a Major or two. The Zetec was supposed to be equal to the Pinto. The obvious and simple solution has already been mentioned, so suggesting we reel in the Zetec will be a fart in the wind here. Would entry numbers increase if you bumped the Pinto, again IMO, no. The guys that want to race are out racing. Heck, I should be out there racing my Pinto now if the engine in my new car hadn't failed the first lap on track.

If the pro guys want to allow a HP bump and include a change for the Pinto to get there they are more than welcome. That's their sandbox and they can write the rules however they want. For those of us who enjoy bombing around with our friends and cohorts on the regional (and occasional Major) why create an even larger disparity by increasing the hp even further. Changes that would increase the life span of the Pinto would be nice. Like, not being limited to the standard bore. We already have a disparity on the regional level between cars that are still on the stock cam and flywheel, ones that have updated versions of both, forged pistons, long rods...... How about we pick a build state and freeze the rules and allow everything to get on an equal playing field again. As I stated early on I'd be all for an easy change to get things closer with the Zetec, but how about we stop there and go racing without the constant fear of having to buy another new piece the following season.

[kea]

Except for increasing the min. weight for those Zetec which are no longer built/controlled, as the idea was first presented when SCCA included them in FC, I agree with Bill.

As is said in the GLC series, No excuses, come out & race !

[Modo]

How about this, Zetecs can run any map they please and they go back to the FA class, but let me warn you, the FA guys, may make you wear ballarina too-too's to the grid, LOL!!!!! ....
.
.
. Well aware that a fully modified Zetec should approach the HP of a 2L Cosworth, 310-320HP, I would think they have 5 mains but don't know if they have a aluminum block and that it could handle that much reliably ........ breathing as well, think the Cosworth payed special attention to the race specific head design .......

Now a 190HP mapping would go well in a Ford Focus, what is that, maybe GT3, GTL .... sedans are too much weight though

[racerdad2]

I'd just like to be able to keep running 100ll avgas. $6.00 a gallon is better than $15.00 for the 110 in a can. I suppose I could buy it in the 55 gallon economy size....