Legacy Jim Russel Formula Mitsubishi

[jemejordan]

I recently purchased this legacy Jim Russell Formula Mitsubishi car to use as a instructional track rental car and I’m wondering if anyone knows anything about the frame manufacturer or who might have additional cars and spare parts? From what I was told this this particular car was built by Jim Russell for Joe Montana and subsequently sold at a charity auction to a BMW dealer hence the paint job. Its has an VD type out board suspension chassis with a 2 liter Mitsubishi Dry Sump Motor with an adjustable rev limiter.

[teamwisconsin]

Holy cow what a blast from the past...

I was a Russell mechanic a while back. The car is indeed a Formula Mitsubishi or a "Mits" as we called them. The good news, they were a very robust, reliable car. They always told us they were mid/late-70's Van Diemens that were converted to Mitsubishi power somewhere in the late '90s. The cars had a dial adjustable MSD rev limiter that allowed the instructors to inch up the speed a little bit at a time as the student showed ability and control. I belive max revs were something like 6800 or so. The cars all had an aluminum restrictor plate sandwiched between the intake and head because the stock Mitsubishi engine was fairly powerful and since these cars were intended to supercede the Ford powered cars Russell used as entry level tools, they didnt want mega-power. Unrestricted, the Mits's were really quite fast in a straight line.

The bad news is that unless the rumors are true and they actually were based of a VD, you're on your own for spares. The good news is that since the cars were never raced and were relagated to teaching people how to brake and downshift, learn the line, and slowly learn to lap Sears Point, they were very rarely crashed so basic maintainence is probably all that will be needed to get it rolling.

So... If it were mine, I'd change out the duff rod ends, rebuild the calipers and put some new masters on there, change the oil and inspect the gears, ring and pinion, and so on, all new filters and belts, and I'd have a heck of a fun track day toy.

Good luck!

[R. Pare]

Contact Ralph or Dave at http://www.rfrcars.com/ to find out the heritage of these cars. The rh rear upright definitely look VD of the late '70's - the lh looks like something cast much later as a replacement.

[jemejordan]

Thanks for the info, I also heard something about the possibility of it being a VD or based on a VD chassis so I'm hoping we can find some basic parts. I had it out on the track for a few shake down sessions and it actually runs and handles pretty darn good even with the old Yoks on it and I actually fit in it comfortably. The only issue I had was it coughing up some oil from the dry sump tank vent which we think was caused by it being over filled. The guy I bought it from already had the brakes and clutch serviced and other than the fluids everything else looks ok. I bought it for a track rental but now that I have driven it im having visions of removing the restrictor, slapping on some Hoosiers and going racing.

[provamo]

the mis-matched rear uprights are disturbing....that thing was probably crashed

in addition how could it be considered a vintage racer as it was merely a school car?

carry on

[dereklola]

Definitely vintage with an oil tank hung out back like that.

[Purple Frog]

Just went through this little drill last week...

You could race it in SCCA in regional FS.

BUT... (isn't there always a "but" )

To race in SCCA you need a logbook.
If it had a logbook issued to it before 1983, you would be home free.
If it has no logbook, you need to get a new one issued.
But to get a new logbook issued, it has to be homologated through Topeka.
Means filing all the paperwork, and could mean updating a few rollhoops, braces, etc. to post 1983 specs.

So, before you get too excited about racing it you better call John Bauer in Topeka. (if your interest is SCCA)
If your interest is racing with a vintage club, the big issue will be convincing that club it is a vintage 'race car' and not a vintage 'school car'.

Chances are, after all the hassle, it will be a track day car.

Not meaning to rain on your parade, but just tripped into one of these issues last week. the cost of upgrading the car to post '83 spec took it out of the racer's budget.

[dereklola]

If your interest is racing with a vintage club, the big issue will be convincing that club it is a vintage 'race car' and not a vintage 'school car'.

Huh?

Purple, do you know of any vintage club that makes that distinction? The age of the car might be a problem but can't see being a 'school car' as a problem.

Jeme, best bet is to discuss with your local vintage club. May depend on how keen they are for entries and how well you personally fit in.

[Purple Frog]

There are vintage clubs that are very particular. They want proof the car was raced in the time period it represents.
For example; they will not let you buy a old street car and build it into a race car that looks like a vintage car and enter their event.
I've seen folks try to buy 60s-70s muscle cars and try to build them into old Trans-Am cars and be rejected.
Also, guys can't race Factory Five Cobras as AP or BP racers in vintage events.

just saying...

[dereklola]

That only applies to muscle cars like the examples you mention - and even there provenance can be variable! Never heard of it in any other group. But I do agree some clubs are more particular than others.

Let's face it any car of 'vintage' age better have been rebuilt in several areas just for safety. Which of course brings up grandfather's ax. I'm starting to think we should consider 'requiring' new tubs, suspension etc.

[Neil_Roberts]

Chances are, after all the hassle, it will be a track day car.

Sorry for the OT tangent. Are there any track day outfits that allow mixed open and closed wheel?

[Daryl DeArman]

Yes, AROSC has allowed open wheel cars in their race group -- open passing/not a Time Trial

[Daryl DeArman]

Like others have mentioned, depends on the vintage group.

I have seen lots of Factory 5 cobras and period correct without pedigree cars racing. It's usually only a problem when a legit very expensive original car shows up and doesn't want to go wheel to wheel with a car worth 1/10th its value because you know who loses that battle for real estate.

[AlanVDW]

Most of the frame that I can see and that right rear upright look quite similar to my Van Diemen. It has the adjustable seat bracket on the top of the frame rails. No posts at the front of the seat, dash to floor rails for more thigh room.

[fitfan]

Sorry for the OT tangent. Are there any track day outfits that allow mixed open and closed wheel?

HMSA runs formula cars and sports racers together, at least at coronado historics. porsche 910, brabham bt-8 and cooper monaco's, are, for example, in our FF/FB run group.... thats some serious high dollar stuff out there holding up some very low dollar fords

regionally, VARA will mix sports racer and formula cars, if not enough of either show up.

BTW - the mitsu is super cool and good looking! id be totally tempted to stick a ford in it and run it in Club!

[jemejordan]

After some disappointing HPDE drives on my home track with the rev limited turned all the way up) im considering taking off the restrictor plate and going with a better intake system. The motor is a Mits 2.0 4G63 and I think it would be a blast (literally) to fit with an after market turbo or duel carb setup. Member Thoughts ?

[provamo]

dual carbs maybe..................duel carbs???

[Rick Kirchner]

fitfan, most sanctioning bodies consider sports racers to be "open wheel". 2mm of fiberglass does not a fender make.

the west coast vintage clubs often split SR and formula because some of the moneyed drivers want to run one of each.

[Phil Creighton]

Looks a lot like a modified 77-80 VD frame and suspension. Remember Ralph built most cars for Jim Russell over the years and I seem to remember when we were the importer at Essex that there was a Mitsubishi project that went to Japan - may well have trickled to the Russell school too. We think of FF and FC but VD built so many one make series cars worldwide that did not have their name on them..............
Phil

[Skeezix]

Myself and two others built the prototype and oversaw the fleet construction.
I'll answer any questions you have...

All the frames were new by the way and I can tell you the Joe got one and the BMW dealer got a different one. I made the stickers for Joe - go figure - 16

I also know of five frames and spares that are - were - in the Bay Area in 2011

Rob Klyver
www.Skeezix.biz
www.RobKlyver.com

I recently purchased this legacy Jim Russell Formula Mitsubishi car to use as a instructional track rental car and I’m wondering if anyone knows anything about the frame manufacturer or who might have additional cars and spare parts? From what I was told this this particular car was built by Jim Russell for Joe Montana and subsequently sold at a charity auction to a BMW dealer hence the paint job. Its has an VD type out board suspension chassis with a 2 liter Mitsubishi Dry Sump Motor with an adjustable rev limiter.

[fitfan]

After some disappointing HPDE drives on my home track with the rev limited turned all the way up) im considering taking off the restrictor plate and going with a better intake system. The motor is a Mits 2.0 4G63 and I think it would be a blast (literally) to fit with an after market turbo or duel carb setup. Member Thoughts ?

my thought... id not put too much money into it. if you can swap the intake / carb that would be good. but a turbo would be "too much" work IMO. honda fit! lol !!!

you might be able to deck the head and get a bit more compression out of it, if its low now. some simple little bits might add up to make it quicker. another approach is put about 3" more tire on each corner

again - cool car!

[Skeezix]

Its a 94 ish 4G63 Mitsubishi 2.0 in a car dry weighted 1095 pounds - if you take out the restriction plate like Ethan said it will haul balls.

Ian Lacy ran the first car vs. one of the Formula Russell Mazdas and passed it handily - that is why we added a choked down plate.

All 20 were build as school cars - using some of the FF parts and some new. Infact, the puke tank on the first car was off my Geo Tracker

Here are some images http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Sk...vehicles/51128


First car on the ground : L to R Me (pre Gray Hair), Rex Ramsey former Can Am racer, Jacques Couture in car, unknown sniffing the gear box, Matt Weivel I think and Andy "Deuce" Snider arms folded. Andy has been a Target Ganassi guy after he started at Lynx. UPDATE: This car is # 31 - we started at 31 then built 30 - duh. Also in 2011 I brokered a deal for a friend to buy it and he did it up all lotus F1 colours, doe Auto X he's a geek. It still ran on the same engine in 2013 when he sold it.

my thought... id not put too much money into it. if you can swap the intake / carb that would be good. but a turbo would be "too much" work IMO. honda fit! lol !!!

you might be able to deck the head and get a bit more compression out of it, if its low now. some simple little bits might add up to make it quicker. another approach is put about 3" more tire on each corner

again - cool car!

[DanW]

Thanks for the info, I also heard something about the possibility of it being a VD or based on a VD chassis so I'm hoping we can find some basic parts. I had it out on the track for a few shake down sessions and it actually runs and handles pretty darn good even with the old Yoks on it and I actually fit in it comfortably. The only issue I had was it coughing up some oil from the dry sump tank vent which we think was caused by it being over filled. The guy I bought it from already had the brakes and clutch serviced and other than the fluids everything else looks ok. I bought it for a track rental but now that I have driven it im having visions of removing the restrictor, slapping on some Hoosiers and going racing.

If you find you need a-arms or other suspension pieces, contact Barry Calouette. I am pretty sure he has the fixtures to build new bits and can supply complete with rod ends if you need them. He built the replacement parts back in the day. The front uprights and spindles appear to be Triumph, so they can be sourced too.

http://www.callouettefabricators.com/

[pooch776]

If you are interested in a spare chassis, check out the post in FF classifieds titled "anyone looking for a FF project". I suspect the chassis are from ex Jim Russell school cars similar to yours. Here is the link. http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66141

Cheers, Joe

[Skeezix]

I had Roger Hamlin at Hamlin Fab build the A arm for the prototype and then Total Fab of Salinas make the bulk. Barry may have some stuff. He did a lot of stuff for us on the Mazda powered cars - rear wing poles mostly.

The font hubs and uprights are from the 1962-1980 Triumph Spitfire with a custom upper pin on top for the upper A arm connection. Moss still sells the stock bits.
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewP...IndexID=116139

If you find you need a-arms or other suspension pieces, contact Barry Calouette. I am pretty sure he has the fixtures to build new bits and can supply complete with rod ends if you need them. He built the replacement parts back in the day. The front uprights and spindles appear to be Triumph, so they can be sourced too.

http://www.callouettefabricators.com/

[Skeezix]

Those are from Jim Russell Canada not Formula Mitsubishi's - though I did sell off our last FF VD 78 and VD 82 in 1999 to a group in Wisconsin - maybe they moved North ha !
Look at the frames - width for the 4G63 is larger than a kent and we used Titan racks for the FM that were wider than the FF

If you are interested in a spare chassis, check out the post in FF classifieds titled "anyone looking for a FF project". I suspect the chassis are from ex Jim Russell school cars similar to yours. Here is the link. http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66141

Cheers, Joe

[Skeezix]

The black one was from a 78-82 VD FF. That is based on the Lotus 61 if I recall. The silver was made from our molds.

Contact Ralph or Dave at http://www.rfrcars.com/ to find out the heritage of these cars. The rh rear upright definitely look VD of the late '70's - the lh looks like something cast much later as a replacement.

[Skeezix]

We built 5 cars in 1998, 10 in 1999 and the last five in 2000. Car 34 (tall drivers) is on it's second frame - bit of a miss hap. Tall cars have a stacked on roll hoop and red bodywork. I think all 5 are in the storage in SF Bay Area but I could ask Ray.

Just went through this little drill last week...

You could race it in SCCA in regional FS.

BUT... (isn't there always a "but" )

To race in SCCA you need a logbook.
If it had a logbook issued to it before 1983, you would be home free.
If it has no logbook, you need to get a new one issued.
But to get a new logbook issued, it has to be homologated through Topeka.
Means filing all the paperwork, and could mean updating a few rollhoops, braces, etc. to post 1983 specs.

So, before you get too excited about racing it you better call John Bauer in Topeka. (if your interest is SCCA)
If your interest is racing with a vintage club, the big issue will be convincing that club it is a vintage 'race car' and not a vintage 'school car'.

Chances are, after all the hassle, it will be a track day car.

Not meaning to rain on your parade, but just tripped into one of these issues last week. the cost of upgrading the car to post '83 spec took it out of the racer's budget.

[10rmotor]

I worked at A-Mac Fabrication in Santa Clara where the initial conversion from the kent to mitsubishi was done. Also did crash repair on these chassis in addition to the mazda/hayashi chassis. We even built five mazda frames for Russel.

[Skeezix]

Funny

We had one VD that was porta powered to shove a 4G63 into it before I started - the Kent removed. - all when JR was at Laguna.

Skip was at Sears and then won the bid at Laguna and JR was homeless.

Sears Point had an exclusive contract for Skip in California so Skip had to leave The Barn at Sears and Jacques and Ron moved in.

When I started at JR in 1998 Jacques and I spent my second week at work going through existing inventory and making a parts list in Windows 95 ha ha so old school.

That first car was used to get the basics understood then we had BMB Fabrication of Sacrament build each car. I took the first three to West Coast Powder Coating in Concord, Ca. on the way home from work. They did mostly patio furniture for the PC was thick as all hell - but pretty.

Fun fact: The first five had the end of the horizontal top tubes left open because the test car had then AN lines running through it. We had them cap those on the next 15 cars.

Jacques was so cheap that he wanted to used this mess of an VD as a fleet car and I talked him out of it. I think he is still mad ha ha.

OP: I have all the spec sheets and even the display stand sign artwork if you need any additional information please message me.

OH when Mitsubishi and JR started all this at Laguna they were also given 4G63 DOHC turbos that had one stuffed in to a Formula Mazda frame - that was a hairy ride I heard.

I worked at A-Mac Fabrication in Santa Clara where the initial conversion from the kent to mitsubishi was done. Also did crash repair on these chassis in addition to the mazda/hayashi chassis. We even built five mazda frames for Russel.

[10rmotor]

Funny

We had one VD that was porta powered to shove a 4G63 into it before I started - the Kent removed. - all when JR was at Laguna.


.

I hope you're not suggesting that was our car. I don't remember all the details but we did new motor mounts, headers, and a few other changes. Don't recall if there were any mods to the actual chassis tubes.

[Skeezix]

Nah I suspect that with the starts and stops of the project and the move from Laguna and the ownership shuffles I bet this thing was a Frankenstein that was an amateur play thing.

I hope you're not suggesting that was our car. I don't remember all the details but we did new motor mounts, headers, and a few other changes. Don't recall if there were any mods to the actual chassis tubes.

[10rmotor]

All this was way before the move from Laguna. Wasn't there another conversion that used a twin cam Mitsubishi?

[Skeezix]

There was a DOHC that was shoe horned into the Mazda chassis ... I saw a few still photos. I think that Mark Wolocatiuk drove it a little but its was considered diabolical. I sold off 25 of the crate engines to Diamond Star Specialties in 1999 - they were in a container at Sears Point by then and that helped fund the building of the FM cars. After all the $ shuffle and the sponsors, FF recycle and the MTPs the FM's cost less than $4000 to build. Each car was paid for within 30 days of use and were cash cows for the following 10 seasons. When Emotive bought the school they declared them junk and parked them in the field outside of turn three for years. Idiots.

All this was way before the move from Laguna. Wasn't there another conversion that used a twin cam Mitsubishi?

[jemejordan]

This thing was a blast to drive but I just do not have the time for it anymore.
The track mechanic found that the secondary is wired shut which explains a lack of power with the rev limiter turned all the way up. I'm just seeing if anyone would be interested in making me an offer on it. It seems to run and handle great and was supposedly built for Joe Montana and sold at a charity auction. its located at the Musselman Honda Circuit in Tucson. 520 208-0527

[dtargonski]

Look at SonomaValleyRacing.com. He was in Santa Rosa CA. I bought a Hewland on ebay last Feb from Ray Z shortly after he purchased a bunch of those cars/parts from the school. He had complete cars for sale at the time too, good guy. Ph number is on the site...good luck!

[Skeezix]

Look at SonomaValleyRacing.com. He was in Santa Rosa CA. I bought a Hewland on ebay last Feb from Ray Z shortly after he purchased a bunch of those cars/parts from the school. He had complete cars for sale at the time too, good guy. Ph number is on the site...good luck!

Yes those are the cars that I helped ray get from the school. They are all red cars - tall chassis and a bunch - o spares.
Would be a good way to restart a basic driver school and ray is a great guy.

[fitfan]

the car has been sold, and yet again my passions are larger than either my wallet or garage....

very solid and well built car, nothing evil at all about it. it does need a bit of sorting, and some cash injection. running on 15" wheels with crap tires. i have a number of friends that are lukewarm about getting into fords... this may be a great track day entry to get them hooked!

JemeJordan is a great guy too, quality person. and the "muscleman track" is a fabulous (kart/autocross track) facility! if your ever down in Tuscon, you should go check it out.

[Skeezix]

Congrats on sale. Glad to hear it's not sitting in the weeds someplace!

[Chuck_]

After seeing this ad for sale I googled the name of the car to see what it looked like originally and I came across this thread. Realizing that others may still be interested in finding parts, this looks like a gold mine.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts...421382355.html

I have no connection with the seller. In fact, I have no connection with this website or forum! I just know what it's like to look for parts for an old vehicle and have no luck at all. Hopefully someone on this board will be able to get anything they need from this seller.

Good luck!