Miata parts: I will never deal with Good-Win-Racing again...

[alangbaker]

...ever. This is a little long, but I need to get some of this off my chest. I've been patient, I've been polite, but now I'm pissed off. I hope you'll take a moment and read it.

On April 6, after checking and consulting on many options, I order a SpeedSport SL1 clutch with steel flywheel from Good-Win-Racing at a price of $895; no small sum, but I thought it was the best option for my needs. And I'll freely admit: Brian Goodwin helped me reach my decision with good, and timely information. At the same time, because I'd been meaning to get around to it, I ordered a set of headrest speakers to replace my blown out units.

Shortly, there was an order confirmation in my inbox and then a shipping confirmation and tracking number; no word in either email that I wasn't getting everything I ordered. So I was delighted when a few days later, I got word from TSB Shipping that my package from Good-Win-Racing had arrived, since the rate determining step (at that point) to getting my 1990 back on the road was having a clutch to install on my new bottom end and I could deliver it to my car guy to have him start putting things back together.

So I took time out of my day to drive 45 minutes down and across the border (in my gas-guzzling Dodge pickup tow vehicle)... ...and discovered that all that arrived were the headrest speakers.

A quick call to Good-Win from the mail house led me to discover (for the first time) that the clutch was a build-to-order item and that it should ship "in about 10 days". And lo-and-behold, when I checked the webpage for the clutch, it had suddenly sprung language to that effect.

OK, fair enough. A bit of a misunderstanding. 90 minutes of my day and gas. No biggie.

But 10 days came and went and when the time stretched to two weeks, I sent (as it was specifically mentioned that I should) a quick email asking "Update please". Now, that was a Sunday, and I was pleased to see a reply from Brian saying he would check with SpeedSport on Monday.

But Monday came and went, and half of Tuesday, and I still hadn't heard. So I emailed again. It wasn't until Wednesday that I was informed that SpeedSport "expected" to ship my clutch on Friday.

At the time I received that message, I had been waiting 17 days for a product that was supposed to be "made and shipped in about 10 days" (big surprise! The language on the page now reads: "allow at least 10 days to make and ship") So I asked very politely if Good-Win might consider using a faster shipping method to help me get my car back together.

My exact words:

"A quick check with UPS shows that going from ground shipping to 2-day air is probably going to cost an additional $60. I hope that you and SpeedSport can help me out to that extent."

And here was Brian's reply:

"Just say the word and we can cancel and refund that right now."

And in that same email, a smarmy:

IF you don't agree, let's just cancel and refund it now and the next guy in line behind you will be thrilled that his shipped faster than expected.

I very nearly told him right then and there to go ahead and cancel and then I would have written this post yesterday, but I talked it over with a couple of people I know and trust, and I decided to say nothing more and just wait.

Then I got a slightly more conciliatory email from Brian that said:

"Sorry that has taken so long, it's a ONE-man show building those and in peak season (which is now) that one man is doing the best he can."

OK, I GET one man shows. Hell, I'M a one man show. But part of being in business (one man show or not) is making good on your promises. So I sent back a fairly light email that said:

"I do appreciate that, but if he’s building that many clutches then he could probably afford to cut me a little break in time on a more expedited shipping."

And I finished my email with:

"I do like the product and the supporting info you’ve provided, but I hope you can see my side of this.

Thanks for staying on top of it."

And here's what Brian just sent me:

"Actually, I don't see you side of it at all.

I waited a year to get the first of these in my car. I was patient an entire year because that's how long it took to make this unique product right.

Your clutch order is cancelled and refunded, figure your bank will show the funds back within about 24 to 48 hours."

I don't know what you call this, but I don't call it customer service. How long he waited to get a prototype product designed and right is IRRELEVANT. This was a product proffered for sale by Good-Win-Racing, not a one-off being made just for me.

I gave Brian Goodwin my $900 (plus shipping!) in good faith, only to discover that the product represented on his website no differently than other products he could actually ship then and there would take "about 10 days", then more than 14 days, more than 17 days, "expected" to take 19 days... ...and all I asked for was a little give and take. I didn't demand he drive it up to me personally or ship it overnight. Just maybe make $30 bucks less each (he and SpeedSport) to help a repeat customer get his car back on the road after waiting nearly twice as long as his information (after the fact) implied it was going to take.

And he comes back with the money will be off my Visa in 24-48 hours...

[ewcmr2]

Seriously? You had to wait a few weeks for a special made part, how horrible.

Yeah, if the part isn't in stock the site should say so but 19 days is pretty fast, and it sounds like they offered a full refund if you wanted it.

Maybe I'm too patient. Ordered M&P shield in October 2012 - picked it two weeks ago.
Fit to Ld200 input shaft, three months
OZ FF wheels, three months...

[alangbaker]

Seriously? You had to wait a few weeks for a special made part, how horrible.

Seriously. Because I wasn't informed there'd be any wait at all when I bought it.

Yeah, if the part isn't in stock the site should say so but 19 days is pretty fast, and it sounds like they offered a full refund if you wanted it.

You're damn right they should have. Not mentioning it had me making an unnecessary run across the border (at least 90 minutes during the day and gas for my guzzling tow vehicle). If I would have known that all that was coming was the speakers, I could have waited as much as two weeks with no additional hold costs waiting for the clutch (or some of my other racing parts at least) to arrive.

And 19 days isn't that fast when the next promise you get is "about 10 days".

But at that point, I let it go and was just waiting for my part to arrive when the vendor email me again looking for absolution or forgiveness for how hard his life was or something.

So I asked for a gesture; a SMALL gesture.

Maybe I'm too patient. Ordered M&P shield in October 2012 - picked it two weeks ago.
Fit to Ld200 input shaft, three months
OZ FF wheels, three months...

OK. And those are race car parts, and this is for one of the most popular road cars to modify.

Part of Brian's rationale for the extra time was all the clutches his supplier had to make (and presumably Brian was already paid for), so I suggested that if business was so good, perhaps each of them could sacrifice $30 (or so) of their profit to perhaps prevent me from losing another week without my road vehicle.

Why should just ASKING for a little consideration get my order (placed in good faith and still wanted) cancelled?

[Paddy O'Brien]

I would have canceled your order too.

[mikey]

somewhere in a parallel universe is a similar post, titled, "Will never accept an order from alangbaker again"

now please refund me my 5 minutes wasted reading this thread.

[Daryl DeArman]

Examples such as this one are why we should give our business to those who deserve it. I am a business owner, have 3 good friends who own businesses--none in the automotive industry. The days of allow 4-6 weeks for delivery are long gone.

If you don't have the widget to ship out in the next day or two let people know. In this day of competing with all the large Internet companies and retailers people expect a part to ship quickly unless you state otherwise.

Consumers accepting such crappy attitudes is exactly how these companies stay in business.

[Brian]

Billing the credit card before the item is ready to ship is something that would upset me, let alone billing the card weeks before you even know when you are going to have the part to ship, let alone before the part is even in existence, and is pretty close to fraud in my view. Shipping a part order without back-order permission is also poor service, and so is not even telling the customer about the supply problem. I think the complaint is justified completely.

Brian

[Agitator]

I agree with Daryl. I'm a business owner, and there are really only two things you absolutely need to do to be successful: Provide a quality product or service, and COMMUNICATE with your customer. If, for some reason, the quality of your product or service isn't up to par, the communication part will usually save you every time.

[Matt King]

...
IF you don't agree, let's just cancel and refund it now and the next guy in line behind you will be thrilled that his shipped faster than expected....

That quote says it all. When the day comes, and it surely will, that customers are not waiting in line, he will wonder where his business went.

[alangbaker]

Thank you all!

Well... ...most of you.

[Josh Pitt]

I have owned my own business for 25 years, and I also am responding w/o reading any of the posts in response to the first post so as not to alter my instinct.


some people are just NOT worth doing business with, that is what Goodwin has learned, and I agree with him
if some guy is going to make this post bashing my business on the public internet(over something that is not really a that of big deal) then I say the owner of the business can spot you a mile away.

good for the business owner, as a customer, your $ is NOT worth the "problems" that you will create for him.

your idea that he should expedite the shipping on his dime is bogus.


glad you were not calling me for my services............... I have learned that I cannot make an unhappy person happy, no matter what I do.................

this thread is more about your deficiencies, and actually puts Goodwin in a good light IMO.

flame away if you want.

[clint]

I have owned my own business for 25 years, and I also am responding w/o reading any of the posts in response to the first post so as not to alter my instinct.


some people are just NOT worth doing business with, that is what Goodwin has learned, and I agree with him
if some guy is going to make this post bashing my business on the public internet(over something that is not really a that of big deal) then I say the owner of the business can spot you a mile away.

good for the business owner, as a customer, your $ is NOT worth the "problems" that you will create for him.

your idea that he should expedite the shipping on his dime is bogus.


glad you were not calling me for my services............... I have learned that I cannot make an unhappy person happy, no matter what I do.................

this thread is more about your deficiencies, and actually puts Goodwin in a good light IMO.

flame away if you want.

Can I ask the name of your buisness?

[Amon]

Clint,

I wouldn't worry about asking for his business name since it probably won't be
around long with that attitude! Bad attitude along with poor service and little or no communication = out of business!

Mark

P.S.: A better way for the supplier to have handled this problem was to ask his
customer "what can I do to correct this matter and allow for you to be a
satisfied customer" ?

[sracing]

Don't know Good-Win or alangbaker, but I do know enough not to comment or take sides until I hear both sides of a story.

Been on the business too long. I KNOW the "customer is NOT always right". I KNOW that it is a cliché that will put you out of business if you take it to heart. Sometimes you have to "fire your customer". Any transaction has TWO customers and is a contract that both of you should be happy with. If one is not, the deal sucks.

I have always tried to be completely fair with my customers and have spent more dollars or time than the transaction was worth to me at times. However at some point there is a time when the "customer is not right" and it is time to dump..

(Luckily many/most of my customers were great I didn't have to fire many. )

Good-win could be a crook, or alangnaker an unreasonable customer. (or both ), but this thread with only one side of the story doesn't win anything from me.

[Daryl DeArman]

I have always tried to be completely fair with my customers and have spent more dollars or time than the transaction was worth to me at times. However at some point there is a time when the "customer is not right" and it is time to dump..

Having dumped a couple of customers in my time, I agree. However, the huge difference being in how you "dump" them and at what point. Sometimes when you've been in business for a long time and dealt with more than your share of unreasonable customers, you are a little quick on the trigger with the next one.

Good-win could be a crook, or alangnaker an unreasonable customer. (or both ).

Or neither Goodwin could be honest just a poor communicator. Alangnaker could be a reasonable customer, with reason to be upset that may have been perfectly okay with: "I am sorry our delay was poorly communicated to you. I will get the unit out as soon as possible. There isn't enough margin for me to eat the cost of overnight shipping to you. However, I would like you to be happy. Can I meet you half way at $30 discount on the shipping and toss in a $30 discount off of your next order. You get your $60 back and I keep a customer? "

[rickrep]

I am a commissioned salesperson for 40 years. I do well enough to go racing! Here is one of my favorite quote to run my consumer products brokerage business.

" take care of your customer because if you don't your competitor will"

Go buy that part somewhere else!!!!!!!!!

[Daryl DeArman]

Can I ask the name of your buisness?

Ha Ha...

As long as you aren't into Aquariums you won't have to worry.

[alangbaker]

I have owned my own business for 25 years, and I also am responding w/o reading any of the posts in response to the first post so as not to alter my instinct.


some people are just NOT worth doing business with, that is what Goodwin has learned, and I agree with him
if some guy is going to make this post bashing my business on the public internet(over something that is not really a that of big deal) then I say the owner of the business can spot you a mile away.

good for the business owner, as a customer, your $ is NOT worth the "problems" that you will create for him.

your idea that he should expedite the shipping on his dime is bogus.


glad you were not calling me for my services............... I have learned that I cannot make an unhappy person happy, no matter what I do.................

this thread is more about your deficiencies, and actually puts Goodwin in a good light IMO.

flame away if you want.

I won't flame. There's no need. The facts speak for themselves.

When I ordered the product, there was no information on the product page that it was a build to order part. This has been confirmed independently by looking at the Google cached version of the page.

When I was first told of the delay, it was when I was at the shipping depot I use, and I was told it would be "about 10 days" from my original order date.

I waited 14 days before I emailed (as my order confirmation instructed me to do) "Update please".

3 days after that (17 days after my order), I was told that the supplier "expected" to ship my part on Friday, and I made my first mild request for them to spend a little on more expedited shipping and by this point Goodwin knew that my car was off the road awaiting this part.

For that request, I got told "say the word and I'll cancel the order" and "someone else will just get theirs more quickly". But I didn't say the word. I let it go and was waiting for Friday.

Until I got another email from Goodwin asking me to understand their situation. So I replied asking him to understand mine and repeating my request (not demand, just a request) for a little consideration on the shipping.

At which point, I was then informed my order was cancelled.

How am I a bad guy in any of that?

[alangbaker]

Having dumped a couple of customers in my time, I agree. However, the huge difference being in how you "dump" them and at what point. Sometimes when you've been in business for a long time and dealt with more than your share of unreasonable customers, you are a little quick on the trigger with the next one.



Or neither Goodwin could be honest just a poor communicator. Alangnaker could be a reasonable customer, with reason to be upset that may have been perfectly okay with: "I am sorry our delay was poorly communicated to you. I will get the unit out as soon as possible. There isn't enough margin for me to eat the cost of overnight shipping to you. However, I would like you to be happy. Can I meet you half way at $30 discount on the shipping and toss in a $30 discount off of your next order. You get your $60 back and I keep a customer? "

Yup... ...that would have been nice...

[mikey]

hopefully you have learned not to make assumptions and next time you will ask if something is in stock, back ordered, or special order. then you can set your expectations accordingly. the root cause of your frustration is a bad assumption that the clutch was in stock. if you had asked up front whether or not the item was in stock, seems you could have avoided this whole mess for yourself.

[alangbaker]

hopefully you have learned not to make assumptions and next time you will ask if something is in stock, back ordered, or special order. then you can set your expectations accordingly. the root cause of your frustration is a bad assumption that the clutch was in stock. if you had asked up front whether or not the item was in stock, seems you could have avoided this whole mess for yourself.

I'm sorry, but the root cause of my frustration is that a vendor took an order under false pretenses and then cancelled it for no reason.

If he doesn't show an item as being special order, then why should I have to assume it is? If he sends me an order confirmation that doesn't mention it.

If he changes his website after the fact to make it look like I'm lying.

I'm sorry: he cancelled an order I was willing to accept...

...simply because he didn't like being ASKED for some consideration...

...and after HE had reopened a closed discussion.

[Amon]

Mikey,

I think the point that's been provided by myself and others is the lack of communication on the part of the supplier. If the customer had been provided with information detailing the delay, then he could have made a decision to either purchase or use another supplier. The customer may not always be right, but they're the one's with the currency that keeps our doors open, and if we don't satisfy enough customers, there's no additional orders and the doors will eventually close!

Mark

[mikey]

alan,
where did i say you should assume something is special order? i suggested that if you had asked instead of assuming, then you might have saved yourself a headache, time and the associated frustration. you're missing the point. my post did not take a side, it suggested a better way to control your own situation from the git go.

if a young child just learning to crawl pushes on a couch with his legs and it does not move, then becomes frustrated with the couch and pushes harder to no avail, then he has failed to see he is part of the problem.

this is not to say alan is a child by any stretch, just an excerpt tale from a recent leadership course i was exposed to.

my last post did not excuse the vendor, it merely pointed out that a bad assumption on the consumer part was the root cause. you can debate that fact if you want, but then i think you are just pushing on the couch (metaphorically).

i learned a long time ago, through similar frustration, that i should ALWAYS ask if something is in stock. even if the web site says it is. it is a very easy way to avoid the exact scenario alan has found himself in.

as others have pointed out, there is more than one side to any story. the consumer clearly made a mistake, for which he can only blame himself, which started this chain reaction of events. communication is a two way street. ask the right questions to obtain the information you seek, only make assumptions when absolutely necessary to otherwise proceed with a decision in the absence of information.

[Tiago Santos]

In the old days, people would call places to place orders and confirm stock status, etc. We're not in the old days.. I'm not picking sides on the original argument, but in this day and age, if I'm ordering something online and it doesn't say "out of stock", "backordered", "special order" or something along those lines, I expect the seller to have the part on the shelf and that he'll ship it within a couple days.. Blame Amazon, or any of the thousands of e-commerce websites we all use every day. I will absolutely not call in to confirm stock status on every order I make online, that's not how it's supposed to work!

[mikey]

In the old days, people would call places to place orders and confirm stock status, etc. We're not in the old days.. I'm not picking sides on the original argument, but in this day and age, if I'm ordering something online and it doesn't say "out of stock", "backordered", "special order" or something along those lines, I expect the seller to have the part on the shelf and that he'll ship it within a couple days.. Blame Amazon, or any of the thousands of e-commerce websites we all use every day. I will absolutely not call in to confirm stock status on every order I make online, that's not how it's supposed to work!

your choice, at your risk.. keep pushing on that couch!

[alangbaker]

alan,
where did i say you should assume something is special order? i suggested that if you had asked instead of assuming, then you might have saved yourself a headache, time and the associated frustration. you're missing the point. my post did not take a side, it suggested a better way to control your own situation from the git go.

if a young child just learning to crawl pushes on a couch with his legs and it does not move, then becomes frustrated with the couch and pushes harder to no avail, then he has failed to see he is part of the problem.

this is not to say alan is a child by any stretch, just an excerpt tale from a recent leadership course i was exposed to.

my last post did not excuse the vendor, it merely pointed out that a bad assumption on the consumer part was the root cause. you can debate that fact if you want, but then i think you are just pushing on the couch (metaphorically).

i learned a long time ago, through similar frustration, that i should ALWAYS ask if something is in stock. even if the web site says it is. it is a very easy way to avoid the exact scenario alan has found himself in.

as others have pointed out, there is more than one side to any story. the consumer clearly made a mistake, for which he can only blame himself, which started this chain reaction of events. communication is a two way street. ask the right questions to obtain the information you seek, only make assumptions when absolutely necessary to otherwise proceed with a decision in the absence of information.

But it wasn't a bad assumption on my part...

...because the vendor DOES normally indicate parts that are special order.

My assumption was reasonable. I only made a mistake in assuming that GWR would deal honestly and fairly when their omission was made plain.

This isn't 1985, this is a full service e-commerce site and if a part is a special order (or is on back order), the customer should be informed. My order confirmation email didn't show it as shipping any differently that the 4 headrest speakers I'd ordered as well. Every piece of information I was given up until I showed up to pick up the order at my shipping depot was that it had all shipped together.

[Daryl DeArman]

The default status should be in stock ready to ship. It is unethical to offer items/services for sale that you can not promptly deliver without first disclosing such. While I might lose in the short run for assuming so, the business will lose out in the long run.

[alangbaker]

The default status should be in stock ready to ship. It is unethical to offer items/services for sale that you can not promptly deliver without first disclosing such. While I might lose in the short run for assuming so, the business will lose out in the long run.

Thanks, Daryl.

I think so too.

Offered for sale means, when I give my money, my order is coming to me...

...unless I've agreed to something different before the exchange.

I'm headed down to Seattle tomorrow to buy some seats from a guy. If I get there and he suddenly says "Hey, leave the cash and come back for the seats tomorrow"...

Well, you know.

[mikey]

LOL the couch still ain't movin.. I try to help, but ...

[romoman]

LOL the couch still ain't movin.. I try to help, but ...

Do you call and check the status of everything you order online? I think we can all come up with some nice little story that we heard at a management or leadership conference.

Know how to boil a frog without it jumping out of the pot? Put him in cold water and then turn the burner on. Maybe you've been beaten into not expecting good service out of your suppliers and don't realize it?

[mikey]

If the delivery schedule matters to me, I do not click order until I speak to a human who can verify the stock status. When possible, I ask them to physically verify and not rely upon their computer data, which was entered by a human and prone to error. This is especially important at your FLAPS or anywhere you plan to drive and buy. Point is, I LEARNED the lesson to not assume when I don't have to.

We all know what year it is, and humans are still humans. On both ends of the transaction human error is prevalent. It's 2014 and the world is STILL not as ideal as you want it to be.

hearing a story at a conference isn't the same as LEARNING it.

your analogy with the frog works both ways.. I jumped out of the water before it boiled and that's why I don't find myself in the OP's situation. the cold water is getting comfortable with SOME reliability of stock status data on vendor websites and then getting burned by making an assumption about stock status when it was never provided in the first place.

the couch remains right where it has been all along..

[BLS]

Being smart enough to ask does not relieve the seller of the responsibility to inform the purchaser of a delay. Charging the customers CC well before the part is even in hand to ship is also shady unless this has been discussed first.

I don't know what happened as we are hearing only one side of the story. This vendor's reputation is taking a hit, regardless of those who think it is a normal business practice to ship items weeks later than advertised.

Every single vendor I have purchased parts from has immediately informed me if there is a delay in any part shipment and has never charged my CC until that part is shipped. I've never had to ask either. In more than one case I have cancelled an order because the delay was too long for me. And each vendor promptly canceled the order and credited my account or CC.

[alangbaker]

Being smart enough to ask does not relieve the seller of the responsibility to inform the purchaser of a delay. Charging the customers CC well before the part is even in hand to ship is also shady unless this has been discussed first.

I don't know what happened as we are hearing only one side of the story. This vendor's reputation is taking a hit, regardless of those who think it is a normal business practice to ship items weeks later than advertised.

Every single vendor I have purchased parts from has immediately informed me if there is a delay in any part shipment and has never charged my CC until that part is shipped. I've never had to ask either. In more than one case I have cancelled an order because the delay was too long for me. And each vendor promptly canceled the order and credited my account or CC.

And what really galled me about this was...

...that despite having my CC charged without being told the part wouldn't ship for while...

...despite being told "about 10 days" and then "expect 19 days"...

...I was willing to accept the deal when the seller re-opened the issue.

At that point, when he didn't like what I had to say (just politely asking for a slight improvement in the shipping method): that's when he cancelled an order that I was still willing to take!

And thank you.

I can't believe the number of people who seem to feel that no one needs to live up to their word anymore.

[racerdad2]

Old businesd adage. Under promise. Over deliver. It's very effective. Just imagine how good someone feels when they've been told their order will arrive in 3-4 weeks & it comes in 'only' 19 days..... Just sayin'

[alangbaker]

Old businesd adage. Under promise. Over deliver. It's very effective. Just imagine how good someone feels when they've been told their order will arrive in 3-4 weeks & it comes in 'only' 19 days..... Just sayin'

Oh, I get that...

But what do you suppose that someone feels when his vendor goes back and retroactively changes his web page and says you knew from the start that it was a custom order?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=ca

That's straight from Google's cache, dated March 17, 2014 and here's what the page reads today:

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda.../61-1001S.html

Now what do you suppose happened between then and now, hmm?

[racerdad2]

Sorry. Didn't mean to bring back bad memories

[Matt King]

But what do you suppose that someone feels when his vendor goes back and retroactively changes his web page and says you knew from the start that it was a custom order?

Both versions of the page include this note:

SHIP NOTE: Made to order, allow 10 days to make and ship.

[SEComposites]

The words mountain and mole hill are springing to mind.

[DaveW]

Old businesd adage. Under promise. Over deliver. It's very effective. Just imagine how good someone feels when they've been told their order will arrive in 3-4 weeks & it comes in 'only' 19 days..... Just sayin'

That is a good principle to employ no matter what you are doing. I even do it for myself - I make lists with how much time I estimate it will take to accomplish tasks and over-estimate them. I then underestimate how much time I have to do them. That way I am usually not caught out having to panic at the deadline.

I employed this principle as an engineer at Bridgestone/Firestone. While my boss was often not very happy to hear how long I thought a project was going to take, he was always pleased when (if) I got the job done before the deadline. If I had done it the other way round, pleasing him up front with an optimistic completion time, he ultimately would have been very dissatisfied.

So, IMO, never say what someone wants to hear up front unless you are sure you can back it up.

[mikey]

Both versions of the page include this note:

SHIP NOTE: Made to order, allow 10 days to make and ship.

ah ha! so a small piece of the vendor side of the story comes out.. all I see the vendor guilty of is capitalizing MADE TO ORDER so that future customers might find the same information easier.

oh, and they lowered the price by $100. what a crime