14" tire/wheel combos for autocross

[mystahagy]

My autocross Vee has always presented challenges regarding tire and wheel combos. I need a bit of guidance--

First off, 4x130 has to be the worst pattern for wheel selection (beetle & 914 only) and 14" has to be the worst size for tire selection. I know, hindsight and all...

Previous combo on all 4-
14"x8" Diamond Racing steel wheels with 225/50 Hankook Z214's C71
Impressions- Had these built by DR, HEAVY wheels, good grip in fast sweepers. More tire meant great holeshots.

Present combo on all 4-
14"x6" unknown brand, possibly mag, 205/55 Hankook Z214's C71
Impressions- LIGHT wheels (11lbs), not enough tire for the heavy rear in fast sweepers, great in slaloms and quick transitions, more favorable offset also narrowed the car in a good way. The tire lacks meat and spins up much easier. Note: The 225 vs. 205 is a BIG 20mm, they are much skinnier.

My times for both setups have been pretty similar, though I feel that I'm leaving a lot on the table.

My challenges-

• 4 x 130 bolt pattern greatly limits selection.
• 13" wheels has required more clearancing of calipers than I'm comfortable with.
• Very limited 14" tire selection

Possibilities-

• Run the heavy 14"x8" wheels on the rear with 225/50 'kooks?
• Go to a chevy pattern on my rotors and start all over with possibly better selection? 15" maybe? $$$
• And what really has my gears turning.... 14" CANTILEVER on the 6" wheels??? Does it exist? It seems all sizes have gone the way of the dinosaur. I love me some cantilever.
  

I know I'm playing a terrible hand here, but I'd appreciate some ideas or input.

[Scootin159]

I don't know about wheel selection in 4x130 to help you at all... but I have to imagine getting either 13's or 15's would help your tire selection considerably.

Either way though... my main reason for posting is just saying I love the way your car looks. By far the best looking vee I've ever seen... has a very ww2-era motorcycle look going on there.

[Neil_Roberts]

You could have Keizer make a set or two of custom wheels for you.

[mystahagy]

I don't know about wheel selection in 4x130 to help you at all... but I have to imagine getting either 13's or 15's would help your tire selection considerably.

Either way though... my main reason for posting is just saying I love the way your car looks. By far the best looking vee I've ever seen... has a very ww2-era motorcycle look going on there.

Thanks, that's quite the compliment.
I started running it about 2 years ago after about 10 months of work, and it's been in a continual state of refinement since. Some pictures of the project http://s7.photobucket.com/user/mysta...%20Vee%20Build

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvQmJ...ature=youtu.be

I'd be open to *trying* some 13's if a reasonably priced used set was around. I'll be on the lookout. In the end, if nothing materializes it seems the best route is to determine my tire of choice and then have wheels made accordingly. Perhaps next year...

[Purple Frog]

Back in the mid-70s I played the same game you are playing.
At that time I struggled to get the right tires for a hot VW autocross car.
In the end I had 13" rims on the front with FF rear cantilever tires, and 15" rims on the rear with rear tires off a 911 Porsche.

If I were to do it today I would focus on 13" rims, because there are so many choices.
If you are running in CM I believe you can run race rubber, which you will find to be less weight also.

Custom 13" wheels can be spec'ed to clear the calipers, but may be outside your budget.

I would think even custom steel wheels with race tires might be better than lighter rims with DOT tires.

We would find the correct rim width/diameter, then weld the correct VW center into it.

Are you using a stock VW gearbox, or MK9/Webster conversion. The stock VW gears create some strange drops in certain shifts. I used gears out of a kombi bus that had reduction gears. Of course I didn't use the reduction gear axles.

I notice you mentioned it being loose in the high speed sweepers with the narrower tire. Why not add a wing on the rear? Probably would not take much to tune that out.

In '74, lacking funds for custom headers so we just borrowed the pipe off one of our dune buggies. Strange looking, but it worked.

[mystahagy]

Back in the mid-70s I played the same game you are playing.
At that time I struggled to get the right tires for a hot VW autocross car.
In the end I had 13" rims on the front with FF rear cantilever tires, and 15" rims on the rear with rear tires off a 911 Porsche.

If I were to do it today I would focus on 13" rims, because there are so many choices.
If you are running in CM I believe you can run race rubber, which you will find to be less weight also.

Custom 13" wheels can be spec'ed to clear the calipers, but may be outside your budget.

I would think even custom steel wheels with race tires might be better than lighter rims with DOT tires.

Great input! You've got me thinking about steel again. Definitely worth considering.

Are you using a stock VW gearbox, or MK9/Webster conversion. The stock VW gears create some strange drops in certain shifts. I used gears out of a kombi bus that had reduction gears. Of course I didn't use the reduction gear axles.

I'm actually still using the old 6V transaxle from it's FV days. It has proven tougher than I expected.

I notice you mentioned it being loose in the high speed sweepers with the narrower tire. Why not add a wing on the rear? Probably would not take much to tune that out.

I'm very willing to get into some aero action, and even posted a thread awhile back on the topic. Lurking through the classifieds, many options I've seen have felt a bit out of reach for an Average Joe, but I'd jump at the chance to fab up the structure if a proper (even ugly) wing came available. We run fast, open courses, so it might not even take a 747 wing to have some effect.

[Daryl DeArman]

13's aluminum wheels with race tires. Going to be lighter and smaller overall diameter will allow quicker acceleration. Lowering 1000# by half an inch without changing alignment is never a bad thing for cornering.

[Purple Frog]

We ran NCCC events (National Council of Corvette Clubs) on airports. Corvette guys don't exactly like tight courses. Many times I was bouncing over redline in 4th gear.
Also run a 6v beetle/kombi box. Never had an issue.
It would not take a gigantic wing.

Another thought. Could it be with different rear tire sizes, you might be coming on the cam at different parts of the turn? The bigger tires may be keeping you down in revs. When you put the shorter tires on you get it into the cam sooner. Just a thought.

I had more luck with cams with a wider power band, instead of "peaky" ones.

Couldn't tell in your picture...are you zero-roll or using a 'z' bar? I used aggressive droop limiting on the rear.

[mystahagy]

We ran NCCC events (National Council of Corvette Clubs) on airports. Corvette guys don't exactly like tight courses. Many times I was bouncing over redline in 4th gear.
Also run a 6v beetle/kombi box. Never had an issue.
It would not take a gigantic wing.

Another thought. Could it be with different rear tire sizes, you might be coming on the cam at different parts of the turn? The bigger tires may be keeping you down in revs. When you put the shorter tires on you get it into the cam sooner. Just a thought.

I had more luck with cams with a wider power band, instead of "peaky" ones.

Couldn't tell in your picture...are you zero-roll or using a 'z' bar? I used aggressive droop limiting on the rear.

It's zero roll, with some aggressive drop limiting as well. I keep it just against the rubber donuts, and I'm actively experimenting with a few selections on how soft or hard it tops out. It's amazing how that little detail can have so much effect.

Excellent input from everyone, thanks to all. I'm definitely thinking more and more about going to 13's when these hankooks play out.