Good to know.
If true, makes the offender look more offensive.
Good to know.
If true, makes the offender look more offensive.
I'm with Bam Bam... quit the split start business. They don't do it at the Rolex 24, nor the Sebring 12 Hour. Start the way you qualify.
Obviously, after 7 years of being involved in a Series that only puts one class on the track at a time, I am not a big fan of mixed class racing. Saying that, mixed class racing is all I personally have ever done. And I don't think it was just luck that I finished something like 40 straight races without a DNF. Situational Awareness.
Single class racing does not mean there will be no car-to-car contact, or that a bonehead is not out there driving one of the cars. I've seen all kinds of incidents in single class racing. That said it does eliminate one of the risk factors (me passing 5 FVees going into T10).
Hard to watch that last part..glad everyone was unharmed.
Waving yellows were acknowledged.
There were waving double yellows and some competitors acknowledged them.
Jason, you did the right thing. Glad you're OK.
I went through Turn 1 twice with a substantial lift. Unbelievably, each time there were more cars there...
Last edited by Revs2-12k; 03.25.14 at 10:42 PM.
Chris Ash Here - I was in the P1 car in front of Jason on the restart. The cause of my spin in Turn one is the drivers rear l rim Broke in the corner - sheared off under side load and I went for a ride. The center of the rim and center lugnut was still on the car - rest of the rim 50 yards away. I consider myself lucky for not getting hit or hitting anything. It happened so fast it I did not have time to be scared. What was scary is what I saw after the fact sitting there watching it all. It was like a bad dream to see Jason sitting there and a minute later an FA plow into him at what seemed like close to full speed. At the point I panicked and got out of my car in a hurry and ran to the wall. I know that's a no-no but with the chaos it seemed like a survival thing in the moment. My car has some pretty good damage from the floor digging into the gravel - but nothing like the damage the others got. Jason seemed ok in the ambulance ride to medical. Im glad everyone is ok but its one of the strangest sequence of events I've ever seen in my 10 plus years of racing. This was my first time at road Atlanta and I love the place - its a tough one to learn with the blind approaches to turns 2 thru 4 and under the bridge. Look forward to going back some day and getting some laps to get it all figured out.
First off let me start by saying that I (and I think everyone in SCCA) really appreciate the hard work done by the folks in white without which we would not be able to race. This goes without saying.
Both the Saturday and Sunday races were a mess. There were a lot of issues with both races- and we are lucky that nobody got hurt due to a combination of over aggression and a couple of bad calls.
In both the Saturday and Sunday races the pace car picked up the wrong leader which caused considerable chaos and shortened the race day for all. The finish of the Saturday race was still up in the air as of Sunday lunchtime and the 'final' results represent the best estimates of what actually happened--- for example, our driver Bob Wheless was second across start finish but was scored third; the race ended under a black flag. We are not complaining- we are just happy to have the car in one piece.
In the Sunday race the restart (or start as this was the first green) had the P1 cars taking a 'typical' race start behind the remaining pace car while the Atlantics were on hot tires catching up-- they had a huge closing speed and started passing P1 cars by turn 5. This was not what the P1 drivers were prepared for and we were lucky that there were no immediate incidents with the fastest Atlantics and slowest P1 cars. The FB cars were right behind.
The turn 1 incidents I believe happened shortly after when all three groups were truly mixed but the P1 group may or may not have realized the situation.
This is in addition to the issues discussed with the Turn 1 incident- I'm glad all were OK.
In these two races the split start clearly didn't work however it took a combination of over-aggression by drivers and race control questionable calls to make it the debacle that it was.
In short- if we the drivers don't do our jobs then we make it difficult to impossible for there to be any 'race control'.
Last edited by VSeaber; 03.25.14 at 8:51 PM. Reason: typo
Butch,Originally Posted by GT1Vette
Thank you for recognizing that we ran 41 or 42 race laps without a full-course yellow. Additionally, there were no local yellows on Sunday that I saw, and only one short one for a spin and re-entry on Saturday.
Having been the victim of multi-rolls induced by other drivers at both VIR and Road Atlanta, I can say that the one at VIR was truly the result of too many (60+) cars on the start, with a refusal by the chief steward to consider a split start, and green flag thrown on a Mexican goat-rope of a "field." I believe a split start made a lot of sense from your foxhole. I know you all had the best intentions in mind for that start, but with the wave-off and the speed potential of the waved-off cars compared to a pace car that was just not going to end well. Thankfully it came off as well as it did.
The incident in T1 10+ laps later wasn't a direct result of that...T1 can be a scary place with lots of cars when no one spins. What happened initially had a high probability of happening when the P1's wheel failed. Based on the perspective of the video, I don't see any excuse for a car collecting a stationary car on the exit curb, under any kind of yellow. Target fixation, no SA.
My two cents.
Best regards,
Eric
If you don't think too good, don't think too much.
- Ted Williams
T1 incident(s) should have brought out a FCY, before the late hit. If that didn't seem like a situation where the track needed to be brought under control then what is?
Southern colloquialism?
aaron
I think I picked it up from my military friends. Verbiage sanitized for public airwaves
If you don't think too good, don't think too much.
- Ted Williams
Full race video from Alex Mayer's car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnsY...ature=youtu.be
… when a car is stopped on the inside exit of 5, I guess… it took about 1 min 10 from when that car came to a stop until we see FCY in Mayer's onboard but why would the T1 deal need a similar (greater?) amount of time before the decision to go full course?
I like the guy standing beside his car in 5, self-preservation is not paramount there… if I'm getting out of a car, stopped in that position, before the course goes yellow - and I'm for sure not doing that! - I'm directly getting the f**k over the nearest wall.
aaron
As a rookie and back-marker P1 who had this race weekend as my first National, I could not agree more. This split start was an attempt to have 3 separate races on one track at the same time, when their were significant pace differences front to back in all three groups. It didn't make sense on Friday how that was going to be possible. And it didn't play out very well on Saturday either.I'm with Bam Bam... quit the split start business. They don't do it at the Rolex 24, nor the Sebring 12 Hour. Start the way you qualify.
Obviously, after 7 years of being involved in a Series that only puts one class on the track at a time, I am not a big fan of mixed class racing. Saying that, mixed class racing is all I personally have ever done. And I don't think it was just luck that I finished something like 40 straight races without a DNF. Situational Awareness.
Single class racing does not mean there will be no car-to-car contact, or that a bonehead is not out there driving one of the cars. I've seen all kinds of incidents in single class racing. That said it does eliminate one of the risk factors (me passing 5 FVees going into T10
The only downside I see to a single grid with multiple classes ranked by qualifying time is an increased significance for qualifying performance; those few tenths may be important to get you ahead of another car in a different class just for better grid position. Otherwise you may be stuck having to work a pass on a different class car that drives the course differently than you. But how can that possibly be worse than having significantly faster cars behind you, or significantly slower cars in front?
Split starts SUCK..............
I going to give about a 30% success rate on split starts from my experience. What usually happens is that the fast cars of the class in the split(the slower class) catches the slow drivers of the first start. We usually catch these cars when we are still sorting out or positions in my class and have to pass these much slower cars when the red mist is at it's height.....
Just line us up by our qualifying times where those cars around us are going the same speed. And I don't give a rat's arse if a car around me is in my class or not..It is just another car to pass..I race with everyone.
Simple
Hot Damn I am not crazy after all.
Quality video from the Replay cameras. Nice job Mike B to bring them in as a sponsor.
Sorry to see some torn up cars but that's racing. Better flagging and better race craft might have prevented some of this.
Nice to see Coop back on track, car looked fast.
Thanks Mike B, Nicholas Belling, and Thomas Copeland for all you've done for the F1000 Series.
Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering Inc
FB #76
So which car popped Jason the second time?
I don't think any video has surfaced as of yet showing the incident after Jason Slahor left his car.
It would be nice to see.
With the addition of the ReplayHD cameras on these cars and this Series.....the cameras will certainly assist in determining any incidents, cause of incidents and driver responsibility on the track.
The Replay HD cameras should also assist the SCCA and stewards should be open to the review of video from these excellent cameras to make improvements and analyze race procedures and potential protests and other concerns.
A new era has began in racing and the RelayHD cameras look awesome and are of very high quality as seen in the 2 videos presented here.
It would be nice to see all cars equipped with these cameras, just like a required transponder is.
Richard Dziak
Las Cruces, New Mexico
Former Phoenix F1K-07 F1000 #77 owner/driver
website: http://www.formularacingltd.com
email: sonewmexico@gmail.com
I think it is more about people being afraid that it will be seen as dragging the guy through the mud.
That's not the case. The guy lost control under a waving yellow and clobbered another driver. He has earned himself a public humiliation. And I want to know who to look out for.
given the circumstances, seems like a reasonable request
nevermind....not that easy to solve as there were multiple FA's finishing 10 laps.
Not exactly...
Yeah, pretty forking inexcusable...
Having said that, there have been times where I clearly violated the rules by getting out of a car that I felt was too close to the action, or in an impact zone.
I have done this ONLY after making damned sure there were no cars coming...
Except for that time in the rain at Rd America where I spun exiting T1, and the car high centered on the left side track edge, front wheels on the track, rear wheels in the dirt.
I got out, tugged a few times on the left front A Arm, rotated the car 90*, got back in and finished the lap/got the finish.
In my mind it is better to take any type officiating hit, rather than a hit from another car where you are a sitting duck.
I'm not advocating this behavior - but it has worked for me
I'm guessing the car that hit Jason well into the waving yellow or FCY then traveled up the hill and hit Mayer's car square in the back? It came in on the hook lookin' that way.
Coopdaville
Do not try this at home!
"Except for that time in the rain at Rd America where I spun exiting T1, and the car high centered on the left side track edge, front wheels on the track, rear wheels in the dirt.
I got out, tugged a few times on the left front A Arm, rotated the car 90*, got back in and finished the lap/got the finish."
I had the catbird seat for the T-1 mess as my car was backwards in the dirt about 30 yards up the hill I guess from Jason - my damn GO Pro was in photo mode instead of video mode, so I cant show you the video of the yellow FA hitting Jason. The one time I really wish I had the video to show everyone the thing messes up. When the car did hit Jason the wreckage pushed up the hill within a few yards of my P1 car it seemed like - I don't think it went up and got alex's car but not sure.
chris ash
Chris - Wait till you see the vid from my car - I was about 30-40 feet behind you when all hell broke loose.
It looked like your car broke a rod end, or an A Arm on the left rear, which immediately dug in, which launched the car upwards and a slow lazy rotate c/w, maybe 4' up.
If my Replay camera did not get this, I'll be amazed...
So glad no one got hurt or killed - the potential was there as seen in Jason's vid when I believe <Radio Edit> (yellow FA) tried to go wide but clipped Slahor's car, traveling well over a ton...
Last edited by glenn cooper; 03.27.14 at 9:43 AM.
The yellow FA that hit Jason is also the car that hit Alex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FCB...ature=youtu.be
It got it. Working on your forward view as we speak (or type, or whatever).
Wait no more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSCi...ature=youtu.be
Broken Suspension or ?
Oh yes something let go on the P1 car of I believe Chris Ash....is that the Astra with a body on it?
Folks this Replay camera seems to work really well, superb video. Hope we have them in time for Thunderhill.
Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering Inc
FB #76
Gary they are being shipped out in the next few days. everyone registered on the west coast will get them in ample time
they are awesome cameras, they just work - all the time on F1000 cars !
Corliss
Glenn, for the record Corliss was not in the yellow FA. Corliss is in the Silver/Orange FA #17, and was not involved in the incident.
Bob Corliss
Sorry Bob
Trying to go off the results sheet - didn't work so well - corrected post.
The Hoo-min brain is a funny thing - The video from my car clearly shows the Ash's car only momentarily in the air - not the 4' up my eyes were telling my brain, and that "40' behind you" deal - Yeah, not-so-much...
Glenn, thanks for the video - shows me what happened exactly - we knew the wheel broke, but I had no idea I spun around twice and the rear end went up in the air - that wheel trying to escape out of there just shredded the floor and bodywork, etc. -
chris
Has anyone ever seen Road Atlanta operations crew ever bring out a Full Course Caution without an extended delay? Does the pace car ever pick up the correct leader? Have they ever held a successful split start?
It is my favorite race track. I love the town. I respect Butch, Nick, and all the workers.
I attended the ARRC in FST in 2006. I was the pole-sitter in the 2nd of split groups. I received 6 different sets of instructions and warnings from various officials about the start. Before the start, under the bridge, the 3rd qualifier passed me, and came down the hill and took the green as the pole-sitter. No one even noticed. He was never penalized. I led most of the race before my engine went south, but hurried up to the bridge afterwards to watch the FA/FB race. It was a mess. Big crash on the back straight with disabled cars at first brake markers, etc. They kept racing for 3 laps, had workers on the track where cars were doing 160 mph. I was terrified watching it all unfold. Finally, they went FCC and released the pace car who picked up someone who was not the leader. No-one, but all the spectators, realized that the pace car had the wrong leader, for 3 more laps, at which point, they were ready to resume. They then attempted to wave cars around the pace car ..... but then gave up and waved an early checker. That was my last ARRC.
Since then, I try and bring my guys to the March National. We missed it this year due to some health issues, but every year we are there, it seems one of the formula groups has one of those scary unrewarding events as I noted above. There seems to be a systematic problem in the Road Atlanta race operations that needs to be fixed. These screwed up races are a pattern! People, procedures, tools ..... whatever it takes. Someone needs to get this fixed!!!!
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
the contrast here is I did the Thursday test day to try and figure this place out - 4 30 minute sessions and I may have gotten a total of 9 or 10 green flag laps - they would double yellow or black flag the sessions for what seemed like minor stuff - I assume that was road Atlanta would ran the test day -so they had a whole different MO on how they ran things compared to the SCCA
It seems that most Stewards on a Practice Day will post a FCC or BF more quickly than they will in a race.
But at the same time, it is a Practice Day so why are drivers doing something that might damage their car or cause a wreck? IMHO you gain nothing from exceeding 10/10ths on a practice day. Maybe the Majors drivers have deep $$ pockets, a spare car, a crew to rebuild a car overnight, etc.
Craig Farr
2006 Stohr WF1 P2
FARROUT Racing
There are NO 'Stewards' on a test day - just "SOMEONE" that makes calls (based on radio calls from the corners). There are also basically NO "Corner Workers" as in SCCA - just someone to wave a flag and call in on a radio. They generally do NOT respond to ANY incidents. Therefore, if ANYTHING happens on a test day that leaves a car stranded in an impact area, BFA has to be called - there are NO FCY's on Test day... no pace car available.
Steve, FV80
So make the test day *steward*, or whatever they are called, the race day chief steward; if that person can make an expeditious call that bring's the track under control when it is clearly needed then I would say they have exactly what is required for the job… understanding the gravity of these situations and acting with urgency is critical.
aaron
Sorry, but I, as a customer expect a higher level of officiating than test day standards. I also expect better than I'm seeing at these race events. It is below the standards of most SCCA events. Because we all love the track, the people, and yes, the weather, we have accepted it for too long. Lets fix the problems, keep the three open-wheel groups, and let Road Atlanta provide us with the best racing on the East Coast, or anywhere!
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
Greg, you know what I mean, don't take what I said too literally... said RA officials need to figure out why the test day boss can make critical decisions (more) rapidly and they - apparently pretty consistently - cannot.
I'm with you 100%
aaron
To break some ICE
And get some photos up of the event for viewing.
http://www.usf1000.com/media-2014.html
Don't we have a basic issue here? If the track management (RA, Roebling, CMP, etc) run the test day then SCCA has nothing to do with it. Drivers pay the track itself and "suffer" the management.
I know that Barber management does not operate their own track days. If we could afford to do one (as was done in prior years), then it would be SCCA run and SCCA staffed.
Craig Farr
2006 Stohr WF1 P2
FARROUT Racing
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
