2014 Road Atlanta March Major

[RussMcB]

A couple of pictures from Saturday AM.

Alex Mayer's new JDR looked nice. All new parts with zero miles. A very brief time in a race car's life...

Jason raced very well and lead for a long time but Coop got by on a restart, and Jason spun while trying to get the lead back. Impressive drive by both, and also for Alex to move up to third place. Did I mention he (nor anyone) had driven the car before today?

[ghickman]

Hope the Replay cameras were in place and working, maybe we will see some good race footage.

Glad to see the JDR made it on track, as of 7 days ago we were hobbing the rack and pinion for it and next day airing the steering rack to Jerry.

[JohnPaul]

Neither Slahor or Mayors car look like those pictures anymore. They both wrecked pretty good, Slahor more so. Dore in the stohr and Livingston in the other JDR also came in on a wrecker. Crowe had something end his race in the straight going to 6 and also got towed ???. Complete carnage in today's race. At least 3 FA's and 1-2 P2's also came in on the hook. What a mess of a weekend ! (Saturday's race was indescribable)

[Tyler Thielmann]

Does anyone have any more pictures or details of what happened during the races?

[Mike B]

I have over 100 Gb of video with multiple angles of the "big one". I'll try to upload some raw footage tonight but give me some time to edit the entire race.

[Steve Bamford]

Oh boy that was a good hit. I like the for sale sign on it!

[Purple Frog]

I guess there would be some debate if it is for sale as a roller or a slider.
Good news is that there appears to be no major damage, other than wallet damage.
If the Runoffs were tomorrow, they probably could have it ready. Bolt on stuff, no welding required.

[Tyler Thielmann]

Glad everyone is OK! Mike are you collecting video from every one at all the USF 1000 races?

[Mike B]

Glad everyone is OK! Mike are you collecting video from every one at all the USF 1000 races?

That's the plan. The Replay XD cameras worked great this weekend but it will be a big job to collect it all and edit it into something people want to see. It will be either me or Nicholas collecting video and managing the Replay cameras at the remaining events.

[Tyler Thielmann]

That's great to hear, I have recently been using premier to do my own and I always thought it would be cool to combine everyone's video! You are right though, it is a lot of work.

[Brian.Novak]

Someone hunt down a film intern

[rydawg011291]

If the USF1000 series or anyone else needs help editing videos or creating a highlight video feel free to let me know. I am more than willing to help out. I do all my brother's videos and video is my career.

Email me at rawise@Bgsu.edu
Here is a link to my portfolio reproduction.weebly.com

Ryan wise

[Mike Devins]

http://rwproduction.weebly.com/

[rydawg011291]

http://rwproduction.weebly.com/

Thank you mike! Typing on my phone is not that easy

[Darryl Wills]

How is the driver doing? I saw the whole wreck and he also got slammed by a FA from behind while stationary. I saw him getting out of the car having trouble walking and holding his lower back. It was a viscous tag from behind....Hope the best for him.

[Mike B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76tpyNwHRGQ

Watch until the end and then say "WTF".

[Wren]

How does something like that happen?

Someone needs their license taken away.

[Jnovak]

How does something like that happen?

Someone needs their license taken away.

at a bare minimum. where was the yellow flag or the full course yellow? Why were the cars going through the corner at full tilt? He is very lucky that it was not WAY WORSE.

[Tiago Santos]

Looks like he was sitting there for a full minute, halfway on track at the exit of a corner that.. well, people get wrong pretty often. Shouldn't this have been a full course yellow?

Painful, in more ways than one..

[farrout]

Looks like T1 was waving a flag (see shot at end of clip). That the other driver was going thru there full tilt deserves some steward action on him. That was just plain STUPID and dangerous.

[Swift17]

..... Complete carnage in today's race. At least 3 FA's and 1-2 P2's also came in on the hook. What a mess of a weekend ! (Saturday's race was indescribable)

.... it was extremely DANGEROUS
and I am just talking about SATURDAY's start ....!

-- First - mixed class racing is hear to stay - that is the reality of today's SCCA - The tri-group start was (and is) a good idea BUT everyone must be behave including drivers and officials - I was with several FF drivers and crew and watched the start right at the paddock at turn 1 turn in -This was we all agreed it looked like-

The groups were let out with three different pace cars (PC1, 2, 3) WAY TO FAR APART - the G1/FAs were well into the esses before the G2 group left and the G2 group were up and over the hill when the G3 group let go with their PC [Query were pace cars' speeds mandated - or was it "driver's" discretion ?]

The PC-1 left the track and the field was in horrible shape and NS - the PC-2 came in and NS for the G2 ... but then the PC-3 stayed out !!! and and at a very reduced speed for G3 group and continued at the slow rate up the hill -- we could her the FA's coming and sure enough they and much, much later later G2 got the start - We believed the FA were in about midway into the backstraight when the G3 cars [with PC-3 now in the pit entrance] started down the hill/12 -- They get the green flag and here come the FAs - full song and bearing down upon the tall end of the much slower starting G3 group in the middle of turn one !!!! OMG ---

For the driver(s) in FA:

The jump start was clearly to get a another pace lap albeit for more tire heat or for a faster start speed [one or two back flags for an infringing driver(s) will stop that activity] -

For the officials:

FIRST race control and pit out procedures - the distance between letting the cars/groupings out was WAY TOO FAR - I speed limit should be mandated

SECOND the pace car drivers (who I believe should have a National License and be certified to serve in that capacity of now multi groups starts) maintain a rapid pace and should always have the next group at least in sight -

THIRD the Starter (who I believe should have a Majors License, be certified to serve in that capacity and travel to each race - nee: Charley Whiting/F1) should have ordered a start finish YELLOW when it was clear to EVERYONE at that the groups were spread out way to far and the FA were going to catch G3 at/before T1- it was again OBVIOUS to all who watched

FOURTH - race control to corner workers - Yellow flag -- do not pass incident off the tract proceed cautiously; but a is necessary especially when there is a car on/next to the surface a DANGEROUS location and BE PREPARED TO STOP - This is what I learned/was taught 35+ years ago - I have not read the rule book so apologies in advance if they have change BUT the should NOT have - [in F1 - if you do not slow down and verified by your data at a yellow flag sever penalties arise]

And - I am at a loss why the FF - F600/500 - FV cars in Group 2 were NOT given the same split start treatment - or maybe I have answered my own question.

A safe event is the responsibility of drivers and officials and should NOT be take lightly

Many many years ago a young FF driver was killed when he ran into the back of a safety vehicle reportedly trying to make up time at a yellow flag station - Earlier that year I had competed with him and parked next to him at the PBIR Pro FF race he was a great chat-up ---- Even today I remember him - I cannot recall the winner of either race - nor do I care.

This racing is done for competition, enjoyment - the total package for a club BUT it is very serious and dangerous business with extreme consequences and should be so treated as such by ALL ...........

EJ

[Mike B]

A little less exciting, but the end of Charles Livingston's race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OycF...ature=youtu.be

[JohnPaul]

Looks like T1 was waving a flag (see shot at end of clip). That the other driver was going thru there full tilt deserves some steward action on him. That was just plain STUPID and dangerous.

Not sure if the incident just happened but there was no flag. Everyone was going through fast not knowing there was an incident. It's was crazy, like dodging a battle field.

BTW: I've been to Atlanta a bunch of times now and it's always been run top notch but this weekend was the worst run weekend I've ever experienced. The reason I bring this up is because of how bad the officials were abusing the Florida region for Sebring Majors at the drivers meeting. #1 it was unprofessional, #2 it was a jinx. My dad always taught me to "shut your mouth and worry about yourself"

[Brett Lane]

Look at the video- There was a waiving yellow. You can see it as he's getting out of the car. Watching this just pisses me off that this can happen.

[jaltaman]

Oh my.

First, Jason, I hope you are okay - you took two hard hits there and I noticed you rubbing your back while exiting the car. I hope the first one didn't hurt your hands or wrists, either.

Two things leap to mind after watching Slahor's video.

1. Always stay in your car - belted in - after a wreck (unless you are on fire). Had Jason been partway out of the car when he was hit he would've suffered serious injury, maybe worse. Very scary stuff. I had a similar incident last year at Laguna and was fortunate to be seated in the car when I got tagged from behind.

2. Whomever hit him from behind - and the cars that were passing him prior to it (you can hear them in the audio) - was going WAY too fast for a Yellow Flag condition. There better be some serious driver penalties handed out for that. Driving at speed in a Yellow Flag zone is a SERIOUS OFFENSE and needs to be treated accordingly. I like Wren's idea - take away their racing licenses.

It's interesting to read the comments about the way the starts were handled - disappointing, though, as the SCCA should know better. I hope they take away some good lessons from this and apply what they learned from now on.

[a. pettipas]

Why would anyone who is sitting in a prone position, facing away from oncoming cars, unbuckle and attempt to get out before getting a signal from a marshal that the track is under control? Getting in a hurry to get out - provided you're not soaked in fuel or in some other tight spot that may have worse consequences than you would face getting slammed into by another car at racing speed as you're disembarking from the car - is giving a pretty huge benefit of doubt to the rest of the field and it's quite a gamble with a guy's further existence... I stayed buckled up for the best part of an F2000 series race at MO last year after sliding off into China Beach on L3 in bad conditions; sitting there in the rain f**king sucked but I was sure some of my comrades were going to do the same thing I did - and they did - and wouldn't even consider getting out until the inevitable FCY.

Jason Slahor was death-defyingly lucky here.

[JRMarchand]

hope Slahor is ok, that is scary, it is possible Jason was shaken up/hurt, couldn't get out of car and run over to the wall, maybe the crew chief told him to stay in the car. That should've been black flagged, one hell of a mess for the Atlanta scca organization.

the second video, hmmm, it appears like the driver made an extra cut towards the wall, damn.

can we see some good videos, please, Mayer and Cooper are good at Atlanta.


happy to see everyone walking away.

[Mike B]

The groups were let out with three different pace cars (PC1, 2, 3) WAY TO FAR APART - the G1/FAs were well into the esses before the G2 group left and the G2 group were up and over the hill when the G3 group let go with their PC [Query were pace cars' speeds mandated - or was it "driver's" discretion ?]

The PC-1 left the track and the field was in horrible shape and NS - the PC-2 came in and NS for the G2 ... but then the PC-3 stayed out !!! and and at a very reduced speed for G3 group and continued at the slow rate up the hill -- we could her the FA's coming and sure enough they and much, much later later G2 got the start - We believed the FA were in about midway into the backstraight when the G3 cars [with PC-3 now in the pit entrance] started down the hill/12 -- They get the green flag and here come the FAs - full song and bearing down upon the tall end of the much slower starting G3 group in the middle of turn one !!!! OMG ---

I had trouble following this but there were only 2 pace cars used at the start of the race. The FAs went first with the first pace car, then a 14 second gap to the FBs (despite the officials claiming it was a 3 second gap, I have video to prove it), then a second pace car for P1.

[GT1Vette]

There is plenty of blame to go around and we (SCCA officials) will do an extensive de-brief to develop procedures to help prevent this from happening in the future. We are very aware that we dodged a bullet here and we can do better.

I do find it interesting that in the past the FC, FE, FM, P2 drivers have been blamed for multiple incidents with the FA, FB, P1 cars, yet despite intense competition they along with SM (which DEFINES intense competition) were the only groups to run caution free races both days.

And the reason the FF, F5, FV group did not get a split start is because they could not achieve consensus in asking for one.

[Richard Dziak]

After close review of the video involving Slahor.....

At 23 to 25 seconds into the video the white P1 car (2nd car in front of Slahor) lost a wheel/tire and fly's over the car in front of Slahor and then over Slahor, high in the air, thus causing the white P1 to spin and at 27 seconds into the video loses another rear wheel/tire. No cars are around Slahor front or back within a close distance. Slahor loses control of his car at 27 seconds, spins, facing oncoming traffic. The white #77 FB passes Slahor just feet away, but the oncoming yellow formula car which has a mid track position, can not avoid smashing into Slahors front end at 29 seconds into the video. I see no way that the yellow formula car can be held liable for the hit to Slahor at full speed. The hit was unavoidable into Slahor.

So, within a 6 second period, and at high speeds, one car loses both wheels, one FB#77 just misses Slahor and the yellow formula car could not avoid Slahors spin.

Watch the video carefully and see that if the white P1 did not lose the 2 wheels/tires, this accident would not have happened.

Thus, further inquiry and investigation needs to take place to see if there was some kind of error in properly tightening down the 2 wheels on the white P1 racer, 2 cars ahead of Slahor. This could have been crew error, not driver error. It clear that this car lost one wheel/tire then another, it is clearly visable in the video.

Bottom line, the video speaks for itself, and does show how dangerous amatuer racing at this level can be in these formula cars.

It also shows the vast amount of expense that one can suffer by racing in at an amatuer level.

If the yellow formula car would have been over just a few feet more to the inside, Slahor's hit at mid section could have been diasterous to Slahor. He is an extremely lucky young man.

It was clearly a mechancial failure of the 1st wheel/tire exiting the white P1 car causing the his car to spin, then the 2nd wheel/tire coming off and Slahor losing control of his car.

So sorry to see the results of the damage on his car.

[Steve Davis]

From a PC driver, I can give you a bit of perspective. I've been driving PC for MANY years and have tons of experience .. I can also set a "proper distance" for a split start given acceptable conditions.

HOWEVER .. MANY things can affect the desired outcome. What SHOULD be done IMHO, is put ALL cars/groups out immediately ... in order ... with PC's where needed. AFTER everyone is on track, it should be the PC driver's responsibility to determine where the 2nd/3rd groups should be. It's a moving target - based on the speed of the first group .. how strowed out they are .. how MANY are in the group ahead... and ORDERS that might be given by the stewards over the radio. Trying it with THREE - REALLY FAST groups is quite a test. It takes real SKILL and KNOWLEDGE by the 2nd/3rd PC drivers to get it right. They have to understand the speed capabilities of the cars both ahead and behind and NEED to have a pretty good idea of the difference in speeds between the group ahead and behind (they should have looked at the time sheets). A couple of SLOW cars at the back of the group ahead has HUGE impact on the group behind and the distance needs to compensate for that.

That's how it SHOULD be...
But if a car fails to start on the grid .. or is just slow getting away... or the tower ORDERS that a gap be placed between the groups before leaving the grid (a really BAD decision IMHO), things can get messy really quickly. I have spoken to most of the stewards in past years and have STRONGLY suggested that they leave the split timing to the PC driver, rather than try to control it from the tower. Most have listened.. some haven't.

Unfortunately, I was busy changing an engine on Saturday and left just before the Sunday start, so I didn't see any of either race live and I don't know who was driving the PC's. I DO know that trying to split 3 groups on track at those speeds would be a 'tough one'. I also know that the FB group WANTED a split start for their series and Atlanta was going to accommodate them if possible. It sounds like the split START for them was modified to a split GRID - which just means - no 'private PC' for them.. just a gap to the group ahead and the same green flag. At that point, it's up to the pole FB to maintain a proper gap to the main group - also a tough task as some 'pack up' going through 10 and some 'straggle'. 1 straggler from the group ahead screws everything. (I don't know if this happened... just pointing out some of the issues).

Now we have the 3rd group - 2nd PC having apparently been held in the grid too long. With the first group out of sight, it's really tough to manage - you don't want to get the pack moving TOO fast and then have to slow them down too fast causing grief and heartache at the back of the field.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say outright that we need better TRAINING for PC drivers and those PC drivers need better support from the tower (less DIRECTION .. more SUPPORT). By that, I mean everyone HAS to be on the same page before it happens. TOO many times PC drivers don't find out about split starts until minutes before the race. Some PC drivers have more experience than others and someone needs to make sure the right people are in the right PC's to make all this work correctly.

It's really sad that this situation occurred, but there is probably enough blame to go around - a bit of misinformation to the grid .. a 'slow starter' car, too much input .. or maybe too little from the tower.. too many stragglers in the 'ahead' groups... too fast for the lead group.. too slow for the other group(s), etc.

I will see if I can get something going in the PC ranks to hopefully improve the situation as best we can. Split starts are wanted more and more .. but there is a limit to what can be successfully achieved without increasing the danger factor.

As for Jason staying in the car. I'm with him. I spun in the rain on Sunday, tagged the wall and slid back out to where the front of my car was sitting on the track in a VERY precarious position. I stayed belted in the car until the first pack of cars came through, but was facing away from all workers (as was Jason), so could neither get nor give signals to anyone. After failing to get it cranked and moved via the engine, I waited another 30 seconds or so as car continued to go by.. more slowly, but I was still in a VERY RISKY spot - both car and body. I wanted OUT. Another T-Bone is not on my 'to do' list. I sat quietly and waited ... listening for SOUNDS. When I felt it was quiet enough, I popped my belts and got out of the car as quickly as possible. Once out of the car, I again listened and started rolling my car off the track as best I could. As I cleared the track, a worker arrived to help and we got it rolled back all the way to the wall as the PC went by and got ourselves behind the fence. The tower decided to leave the car and pull the PC and go green, and all finished well.

I made a decision to GET OUT - I felt it was the correct thing to do. In Jason's video, it seemed to me that he waited a sufficient amount of time before he tried to get out. He seemed a bit dazed when he initially tried to get out which turned out to be a VERY good thing, since he had sat back down when he was hit the 2nd time. Obviously, after THAT, he REALLY WANTED OUT!! It's a call. Hopefully we guess right.

I am uninjured -- I hope Jason is the same.
I WILL be contacting Atlanta people to follow up on this situation - to try to find out what went wrong and what we can do to avoid it in the future.

Steve, FV80

[Purple Frog]

Richard,

You seem to not understand no one was upset about the initial spin and contact. What everybody is upset about is that almost a full minute after all that a FA crashed into the rear of the parked Slahor. Almost a minute later!

[Gary Slahor]

We are very thankful that it wasn't worse. There doesn't seem to be any serious damage and we are scrambling to get it fixed. Jason is very bruised and sore, but in pretty good shape overall.

Regarding the second hit, which never should have happened as there was a waving yellow at the time......
The corner workers told Jason to get out of the car.
He stayed put until told to get out!

Gary

[Steve Davis]

...
And the reason the FF, F5, FV group did not get a split start is because they could not achieve consensus in asking for one.

The FV group does NOT generally want a split start these days. It just complicates the PC situation and we are almost always grouped at the back anyway. We prefer split GRID, where we just lay back a bit to allow any slow cars in the front to get through T1 before we get there. It's usually pretty easy since we are the lowest powered cars in the field and pretty much EVERYONE pulls away from us at the start.

If we have a split start, the lead group catches us before we have time to sort ourselves out. Under ideal conditions with a split grid, we'll get a good start at the back and then have 5 or 6 laps before the fast cars start pounding on us.

Steve, FV80

[Steve Bamford]

I have seen many, many people requesting split starts putting pressure on event organizers & officials to accommodate the customers demands.

With that said all too often they get messed up & should be considered dangerous. Pace cars never seem to be as close as was discussed in the drivers meetings.

I get mixed racing & that it is here to stay but drivers have to look in the mirror & take some of the blame for split starts. Often it is one car jumping the start in the group causing others issues. They should really be abandoned in my opinion.

[Richard Dziak]

Richard,

You seem to not understand no one was upset about the initial spin and contact. What everybody is upset about is that almost a full minute after all that a FA crashed into the rear of the parked Slahor. Almost a minute later!

Only the driver who hit Slahors parked car after the one minute, can explain why it happened and what went though his mind at the time. So hard to speculate why, what and how that could have happened.

[JRMarchand]

@ Butch, with all due respect Sir, was the incident on turn 1 not big or nasty enough for the officials up on the tower to freeze the action on the track. An FA HITS FB almost dead on and the action on track continues, I am hoping that the plans were to send the field to the pitlane immediately, the officials at Road Atlanta are better than that. There is no reason to divert how you really feel and talk about FM/fe and sm, please do not divert, let's not talk about dodging bullets, there is no way that had the red flag been used..... You guys took the bullet and failed at preventing it. We make mistakes everyday and I probably just made one by hitting send to this reply.

Ps. So if the corner workers were yelling or signaling Jason to get out of car, what was the plan?, to continue the race with cars and debris off the side of T1, hot track with a stationary yellow?

[Brian.Novak]

The FV group does NOT generally want a split start these days. It just complicates the PC situation and we are almost always grouped at the back anyway. We prefer split GRID, where we just lay back a bit to allow any slow cars in the front to get through T1 before we get there. It's usually pretty easy since we are the lowest powered cars in the field and pretty much EVERYONE pulls away from us at the start.

If we have a split start, the lead group catches us before we have time to sort ourselves out. Under ideal conditions with a split grid, we'll get a good start at the back and then have 5 or 6 laps before the fast cars start pounding on us.

Steve, FV80

This is by far the best course of action for this grouping. Generally a full split start results in the FVs getting lapped too many times. A grid split works much better for the FVs.

[Purple Frog]

There is a chance that after the initial incident all cars ended up off the racing surface. (look at the video as Jason initially tries to get out) In which case T1 would have been displaying a standing yellow, not waving.

Since the "crazy" impact happened about a minute later, that offending driver was ahead of the initial accident and did not see it. Coming into T1 he probably only saw a standing yellow.

Then, I guess the offending driver made the classic mistake that Randy Pobst wrote about in the last issue of SportsCar. The driver failed to look up track where he wanted to go, instead focused on what he wanted to avoid. Usually, you end up going where you are looking.

In the video after the second crash, as Jason is now hurrying to exit, you see a waving yellow. That doesn't mean it was waving before. Just saying.

[mazda17]

The yellow flag was waving the entire time with another corner worker at station waving his arms to try to slow them down.