SCCA Pro announces new class. formula Lites

[Scott Gesford]

Thank god. Another training class was desperately needed.

[Maciej]

Thank god. Another training class was desperately needed.

Reading the news release it sounds like they'll cost quite a pretty penny for a turn key car from Crawford.

[Doug Fisher]

[Rick Kirchner]

I wonder what members they are listening to?

[Mike B]

Here is a link to the press release:
http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.co...ormula-series/

Of course, it's not on scca.com (yet).

[Chris Elwell]

Do you think the £7995 used F3 cars from Canada will be allowed?

Just another series to dilute USF2000 and Star Mazda.

[Peter Olivola]

Are you suggesting Pro turn down another sanction fee situation?

I wonder what members they are listening to?

[Dennis McCarthy]

Dennis McCormack, a principal at the Formula Lites organization, reflected many of the comments made by Campbell.
“SCCA Pro Racing was a natural partner, having worked closely together with them in the Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup program,” McCormack said. “They have a strong commitment and track record in driver development.”

Wikipedia:
The Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup was a single-make racing series sanctioned by the Sports Car Club of America. The series was started in 2008 and was a sports car series that ran only in North America, the series quietly folded in 2011.

[Raceworks]

I suspect this is going to be like the TDI Cup: a subsidized "pro" series with a limited selection process (TDI cup used a series of metrics that mainly make sense to marketing executives). SCCA's involvement is most likely collecting a sanctioning fee, while the suits actually control the series and Crawford collects a check for a bunch of chassis that in 5 years will either be collecting dust in a warehouse (whatever did happen to all those TDI cup cars?).

I don't see it working any other way. I'm betting that the actual cost of that thing will make a Swift 016 look cheap by comparison.

[Doug Fisher]

FF2000 and FF 1600, Rand pro style, are the best run series of these types I have seen in my experience in racing. They are key in the ladder to larger formula I believe. Following these two great series, a Formula Atlantic type series would be the next best step in my opinion.
Not sure what SCCA expects from this, and wondering if it has a good 'track record' (pun intended) when it comes to club managed pro series ...
I wonder what the SCCA research yielded and what its marketing 'strategery' might be to cause folks to abandon other perfectly good race cars with great series and series potential.

[Chris Elwell]

(whatever did happen to all those TDI cup cars?).

.

In June 2012 they were all sitting inside turn 1 at NJMP.

[La Scuderia Raggi]

This went up on the Racer FaceBook site and as of yet, I've yet to see one positive comment. The only possible upside is the carbon tub. Seems to me once your at or near 200 hp in open wheel it's time to drop the tubes, probably including FB. I'll take the hits and comments off line thank you.

[stonebridge20]

Ok,.......Who's in?

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.co...ormula-series/

[Purple Frog]

For the last eight years Rand has put on the largest formula racing series in North America, with more entries every weekend than any pro series short of NASCAR.

Highly competitive.
Training both drivers and engineers.
Relatively inexpensive.

So... we need another series.

Follow the money.

[KenT]

Has Crawford ever built a formula car?

[Rob E]

Actually came here today just to see what the response to the new car announcement was on this board. Sadly I suspect as others have mentioned that this will just dilute the fields in many classes.

This all goes back to some time in the mid-90's when people started feeling that they couldn't just enter a Series or class that already existed but that they had to invent their own.

Think back to a time when the Formula ranks were pretty easy to understand. F440, FV, FF, FC, FA. (and SuperVee thrown in for good measure) Then people wanted to do F3 in the US. They were cool, they were carbon, they were subsidized by VW and Dallara, and they lasted a couple of seasons. I think that they had a high car count of 11 at one race although I'm not sure of that. (Not counting the "invitational" cars from Mexico.) Formula Mazda was a nice Pro class, then we "needed" it in Club Racing. FE has had it's day but was it really necessary (other than to give Enterprises profit, the same as what everyone is saying about Crawford).

I fear that this is just another in a long line of cars that will run for a few years and then "we" will move on to the next great thing.

The carbon tub may be nice and I agree that some times the cars look pretty fast for tube-chassis construction. I guess it is a cost/benefit equation.

[Purple Frog]

It is not a formula car if every car has to be made by the same manufacturer... it is a spec car.

Anybody can build a formula car, only a few can build winning cars against open competition.

[Rick Kirchner]

Perhaps Peter will field one.....

[provamo]

cool............maybe they wil have a sportsracer edition

sorry, but if this news wasn't so sad it would be laughable

[timos]

Has Crawford ever built a formula car?

Yes, a certain (also black) Formula Atlantic from the mid 90s. Nicely done tub.

I'll probably regret saying this, but let me toss a thought into this - a truly F3 compliant car gives an internationally recognized talent measuring stick that FA (in it's current state) and FB can't provide. I don't see those classes sending many drivers into Indy or the F1 feeder series.

Now I don't think the SCCA could run a soapbox derby race, but that's another subject.

tim

[La Scuderia Raggi]

We forgot about that one.

[dalz]

Come back, Shelby Can-Am. ALL IS FORGIVEN.

How much of our dues went into the "research" that said that we couldn't live another season without this car?!

[Brian]

I see this as a replacement for Formula BMW. There is a certain type of guy who wants this kind of car to put his kid into. It has no relevance to anything that people here who are club racers would do, hence the negative comments. I recall that Hinchcliffe skipped FFord and went directly to F-BMW on his way up, after a school series.

[GT1Vette]

Please read the first sentence of the press release (bolding is mine):

"SCCA Pro Racing has announced that it has agreed to provide the sanction and race operations services for the new Formula Lites series, which is currently under development."

I've looked at the prototype and it's a pretty whizzy piece. The target market is kids coming out of carts that want paddle shifters and other modern technology. Does the world need another formula car series? Maybe or maybe not, but it's not costing the membership anything to find out and in fact is generating income for Pro.

Carry on...

[Swift17]

Another new Formula - Really !!! .......Really ????

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

... From Racer.net (emphasis added)

" .... The series, sanctioned by SCCA Pro Racing and scheduled to launch in 2014 at select events with a full schedule in 2015, aims at developing drivers interested in entering professional motorsports, including those who seek to make the leap from karting to open-wheel racing.

"The Formula Lites series provides economy, available resources and an emphasis on safety while giving drivers the opportunity to develop their skills to progress into higher levels of open-wheel racing," said McCormack. "SCCA Pro Racing was a natural partner for us, having worked so closely with them in the Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup program. They have a strong commitment and track record in driver development."

Created in Crawford Composites' 48,000-sq.-ft. facility in Denver, N.C. by the company's design team, led by chief designer Andy Scriven, the Formula Lites carbon composite chassis is built to FIA F3 2014 technical regulations. Scriven focused on state-of-the-art technology to produce a competitively priced, innovative and exciting chassis to pilot. The new FL15 has exceptional electronics and paddleshift designed by Crawford Composites' in-house Controls Group.

The FL15 is powered by a 2-liter, 210hp turbo Volkswagen engine. Pirelli is supplying tires, ensuring the same quality and consistency afforded to Formula 1 racing is also present in Formula Lites. Sports car racing legend and renowned driver, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, is overseeing the test drive program. Each vehicle will be 100 percent ready to race when driven off of Crawford Composites' lot. ...."

Ok, .... a small rant (based upon 35+ years experience with Formula Ford/F) We are seeing for the first time in a long time a nice bump in FF/FC as with the Piper, Spectrum, Citation and admittedly "off lease" Mygales cars (and why the SCCA will not allow sequential gear boxes for these new cars are beyond me)- and while it appears there may be safety improvement with this new car, would it have not been better business model and to better benefit the Club and it's members, and obvious, to build upon/buy/compete/poach/ etc. with/the F1600/F2000 series and have the SCCA pro staff get a sponsor to advance/integrate participants from an obviously successful championship(s) ? -

This is possible co op effort and what the Club should do/be spending time upon and not assist/administrate/sanction a possible/probable obvious competitor? Shouldn't time be BETTER spent to bring in attract kart'ers to the SCCA - build/rebuild the training ground brand for the SCCA - Is that not at least a part of Honda's Fit program - doesn't Honda wanting a motor in F2000 a clear and obvious indicator ?

Generally, to start rebuilding, opportunities for the Club abound - With the existing FF/FC platform, and no disrespect to Hoosier for F1600-F2000, but given the BFG "SuperTour", would it not been better to have BFG acquire and market a "branded tire" for an obvious tie-in witha would wide company (Michelin/BFG) given the Majors and available for future contracts for F1600/F2000 series, especially since the BFG truck is present at the races already ? This would benefit the Club/Members.

What about the prior clear path to advance in racing - FF -FC - Super/Vee Atlantic and then to professional Pro Sports/Endurance cars or Formula cars - so simple and really, for a long time before unnecessary class proliferation, the obvious path to follow .... build upon what you have - don't try to invent the wheel - advance the the current status FF/FC/FE, etc. based upon sound clear goals/objectives ......

And where is this "new" series to run ? - Obviously, IndyCar is tied in with the F2000 and Indy Lite administration - so it would appear Indy car is out - GrandAm does NOT even have the SCCA on its speed dial however never under estimate GrandAm 'er NASCAR! -- they need a feeder series for their ranks and have BIG bucks, Crawford is one of "their boys..." so grabbing kart'ers is a obvious solid plan --

Time will tell if the sanctioning of the competition before some else does it is a business plan to follow ......

I could go on but I said a small rant --

BWTM and there is GOOD news !!!!!

Obviously, all you FS and AutoX'er should be thrilled and take heart - In just a few years when VW, Pirelli etc. get tired of the program, what may be great cars will be on the market at a discount price !!!

P.S. and taken EXACTLY from the press release .....

" ..... Each vehicle will be 100 percent ready to race when driven off of Crawford Composites' lot. ...."

[a. pettipas]

Pirelli will have to build tires that fall off dramatically to get the kids ready for f1...

[Peter Olivola]

I understand there are those who will complain about anything and everything that involves SCCA, but I would direct your attention to post #24. McCormack and Co. probably could have just as easily decided to spend his money with another sanctioning body and with a reception like this it's easy to understand why some of those other sanctioning bodies exist.

[Dennis McCarthy]

With SCCA its always about the money, loyalty means nothing, I doubt they approached their existing partners and got their blessings on this new venture...

[allof6]

With $80,000 USF 2000 cars it was only a matter of time. The F3 concept has never worked over here but we will see. I will be interesting to see the schedule and where they run.

We need new cars with modern technology which is something SCCA keeps falling short on. But another full spec car is beyond.

[Maciej]

With $80,000 USF 2000 cars it was only a matter of time. The F3 concept has never worked over here but we will see. I will be interesting to see the schedule and where they run.

We need new cars with modern technology which is something SCCA keeps falling short on. But another full spec car is beyond.

I think the real issue is that there are a lot of classes, and ultimately the SCCA doesn't want to consolidate them into fewer classes to generate adequate participation numbers. Everyone likes variety, however, in this economy it's tough to have variety while simultaneously maintaining sufficient participation. Introducing a class like this is great in theory in terms of the technology, performance, and utilizing it as a metric to European racing but without other reforms it'll fail.

I could very well be wrong, just my opinion...

[flat tappet]

Wikipedia:
The Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup was a single-make racing series sanctioned by the Sports Car Club of America. The series was started in 2008 and was a sports car series that ran only in North America, the series quietly folded in 2011.

Too bad.......I guess if you can drive a near stock,slow car quickly.....you may be able to driver a faster car quickly,as well.This series sort of reminded me of the original showroom stock class. Wish it could have translated into a regional SCCA group. Kinda like the IROC Camaro idea with the cars being so equal.

Read an article recently that most street drivers should not have a larger car payment than a $13000 Nissan Sentra. Not quite sure where a new Formula class fits into that budget spreadsheet...........LOL.

[Steve Davis]

FWIW, I see NOTHING that says SCCA had anything to do with the inception of this class. Someone ELSE conceived, developed and marketed the program to VW and Pirelli (the 'winners' of a possibly large 'seeking'? ) and started the process. THEN, they needed to find a sanctioning body for the series and SCCA Pro agreed to do it. If it succeeds, SCCA will benefit (some) - if it falls flat on its face, SCCA membership should not be the less for it.

I don't really see this as a problem initiated by SCCA - but having it under the SCCA banner shouldn't really hurt any of us ... unless somehow, SCCA decided to run it within some existing series ... like MAJORS .. which would take precedence over track time like Trans AM occasionally does. Now THAT would tick me off!

There was no discussion about WHERE or WHEN this series would run.
Look on the bright side - maybe this new series will raise the level of spectator involvement and/or U.S. drivers - which would be good for all of us.... I think.

It's a DONE DEAL apparently, so all we can do is HOPE something good will come from it .

Steve, FV80

[Rich Domikis]

First I have own and run a LOT of formula cars - most in SCCA.

That includes FF, FSV, FA I still have a Reynard 90H FA
When I ran FF up to FSV the SCCA seemed to have a plan.

It was weird and the last season of FA found the teams running Ford stickers upside down - compliant but in protest.

When I ran FSV we ended up with a "series" sponsor BBS wheels - they are nice wheels but EVERY TEAM HAD TO BUY 3+ sets at a solid price (read the BBS "sponsorship" was self funding.) Oh sure the top three finishers got cash but the rest of us got to buy more wheel hats...

Along comes F2000, FM, FE USF3 and all sorts of formula series almost all without rhyme or reason...

My points:

1. I agree with others that a "formula" series CAN'T have one chassis - this is called a spec open-wheel series.
2. While some suggest that one manufacturer will keep costs down - that's not proven to be the case.
3. If you want cost effective graduated racing look at horsracing and claims races for the pattern - if SCCA cared about members and series they would set up a SCCA ladder and use it!
4. Each time I look at getting back into a series I stop and say to myself - ok how long will it take for this series to die. At this point most are 3-5 years. For a driver that's fine as you hopefully stay in the series 1-2 seasons. The problem is there's no chance for a team to use equipment long enough to break even let alone make a profit.
5. Pro series in SCCA need to feed FROM the SCCA club series - REQUIRE one season in the CLUB series to run PRO - they can't as they want a semi-full Pro grid.
6. Use a claim rule - if you RUN in a race you can claim ANY other car post race at a set fee - something like FF$15,000, FF2000 $30,000, FA $60,000 this WILL keep all costs in control - want to run a 80,000 FF2000 go ahead - and I will buy it for $30K right after the race.
7. If the SCCA controlled costs - the manufacturers WOULD figure out what they could make and sell at a profit.

I can't wait to hear the cost of these new cars...I'm sure it will not be cheap...


The best, most cost effective racing I ever did was in FF where the costs were basically entry fees, fule and a set of tires (one set!) - I guess those days are far gone my FA has a $5000 clutch...

[Swift17]

...
It's a DONE DEAL apparently, ...

My post was intended to start a conversation about what CAN and NEEDS to be done by the SCCA to advance its formula car racing -- the "young'ins" in F1600 will be gone in a second (depending upon price) to this new class (" .. karters to Formula Libre..") and I do not believe any/many of then have advanced to F2000 - A check of the entry demographics of F1600 and F2000 after the few young'ins and it suggest a graying (if not balding) population - replenishment of a customer base is essential ....... I had hoped the F1600 and f2000 series and it multiple entries would cause them to support the Majors in the east, but statistics does not bear that out as of this date. The great turnout last year at COTA was for sure destination driven - Last year's Super Tour FF race at VIR, the week after the pro race, had three (3) entries.

The Honda effort as a formula car ladder is admirable (and as I understand more to come) and this should be embraces and nurtured - SuperTour is a great start - - I am sure all would agree more is needed

Note - I am fearful the late planning of the formula car "experimental" weekend (with NO Friday track time) at Barber the weekend following PIRC/BeaverRun Pro Race and Summit Point Major's weekend will result in a very low attendance [and yes, we are going].Too bad the planning of a "Fordstock" weekend - FormulaF, FC, Atlantic, and Sport2000, etc. wasn't considered.

[JohnPaul]

Well, I think the car is pretty nice. 210hp, carbon tub, sequential gearbox with pneumatic paddles......welcome to 2014. Kids (actually anyone ) that have the money and want to go fast isn't interested in 30 year old technology. This is why FB has been growing.
Has anyone checked out the SCCA membership thread? I'd say 95% of the people that posted are in 50+ years old. Don't worry about another class, your 65 year old buddy racing against you isn't leaving you for this series.
If it fails, it fails big deal. ****, maybe it doesn't and the series gets some American drivers into F1.

[Maciej]

Well, I think the car is pretty nice. 210hp, carbon tub, sequential gearbox with pneumatic paddles......welcome to 2014. Kids (actually anyone ) that have the money and want to go fast isn't interested in 30 year old technology. This is why FB has been growing.
Has anyone checked out the SCCA membership thread? I'd say 95% of the people that posted are in 50+ years old. Don't worry about another class, your 65 year old buddy racing against you isn't leaving you for this series.
If it fails, it fails big deal. ****, maybe it doesn't and the series gets some American drivers into F1.

If I'd be able to afford it I know I'd be in.

[Jerry Kehoe]

All you have to do is look at the success ( or not) of any series run by SCCA Pro to determine the future:
Can -Am - dead
F5000 - dead
FA - dead after being resurrected by competitors
The joke Shelby Can-Am - dead
Trans -Am - dead
Single seat Can-Am - dead
FSV - dead
etc, etc , etc.
Now this with carbon chassis, paddle shifters, turbo motors! Is there anyone out there who really believes this is an "entry level" class? Karnac predicts the future- dead!

[Steve Davis]

To follow up.. the way I read the release, SCCA will not be "RUNNING" the series - simply providing a sanction program for it - i.e. 'Affiliation' with SCCA Pro and insurance. That would be a lot like the Rand series. SCCA does not RUN that series - Rand does... I think

Steve, FV80

[Kazis31]

If they wanted safety and carbon fiber tub cars.
What is wrong with Pro Mazda series.
It has been around for 10 years and are fairly cost competitive and quick cars for
pro level formula cars.
Like i said before on this forum Formula 3 mid level teams budget is 400kto 650 k EUROS
a year for running two cars.How is that cost efficient???I know what i'm talking about kid from Latvia did two seasons with Trident team and won Austrian F3 and went on to dieing F2,very fast and talented driver too.
Dropped out of series due to funding look him up Harold Schlegermilch.
He runs Porche cup series in Germany now i think.
They are very advanced race cars ,very fast ,full tunnel,paddle shifter etc.
But boy are they complicated and expensive to run.
Except SRF and spec miata there is no class in SCCA that has constant 25 car on the grid races.
WTF???????

[JohnPaul]

Except SRF and spec miata there is no class in SCCA that has constant 25 car on the grid races.
WTF???????

F2000 championship has way more than 25 per race. It's without doubt the best run organization right now. I wish they ran an FB or P1 (or maybe combined) class. I think that would be a killer class with 25+ cars