Seeking info on a CSR car

[group3]

Long time observer, first time poster. I am looking at a CSR car to purchase. However, it comes with no log books, no CSR history, no set up data. Converted '84 Ralt SV. Sitting in warehouse for 10 years. See attached photos. Apparently a multiple National event winner in '92/93. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Don Jones]

Looks like a car that was run in Ohio about that time. Drivers name was Bill Mayer ( spelling) I sold him an old FV . This would have been 1988-90. I believe he moved to Florida soon after
Just a guess

[Stan Clayton]

Looks like a fun and potentially quick car. It will slide right into P1 with 42mm chokes, which it may already have.

[BURKY]

Just a guess... I think Brett Lane, owned this car at one time. Is the car in Florida?

[group3]

Thanks for the response. It seems Bill Meyer did own and run a Ralt-Beasley CSR at the runoffs in 1998-99.
SCCA has an archive web page which has a driver history of anyone that ever ran at the runoffs, kinda cool, but they keep nothing relative to the registration number of a car, at least that is what Eric Prill told me in an email.

http://www.scca.com/clubracing/content.cfm?cid=45949

I thought it might have been Tom Sedivy, but I think he had VW power? instead of Toyota?

I checked for runoffs history for Brett Lane but could find none.

The car is currently in the Mid-West.

I know log books would be nice but not crucial, more importantly for me is set up info. I am just a Vintage guy looking to Vintage race...

[Jeff Read]

Why don't you try to contact Ben Beasley. I'm sure he'd have the info on this car.

[Charles Warner]

Set-up info is easily available - It looks likes a Ralt RT-4 with Ben's body and Toyota power.

[quartzracer]

or post on drsforum.yuku.com

[Brett Lane]

Just a guess... I think Brett Lane, owned this car at one time. Is the car in Florida?

My car was an '83 RT-5. It looks identical- Beasley body and all, but we ended up converting the car to Honda B-16 power. A project that never grew legs. I ended up selling the car to a lawyer in Ecuador.

The chassis was a parts car that never had any real history. I think Dennis Vitolo drove it once, and it was stripped and stored. Never the less, I regret in a way selling it.

[Brett Lane]

Set-up info is easily available - It looks likes a Ralt RT-4 with Ben's body and Toyota power.

I concur with Charles. I remember seeing an RT-4 with a Toyota years ago at Sebring, but it was run as an Atlantic. The only one around at the time. I don't know where that car came from. The only other Toyota powered Ralt Beasely belonged to Corky Prep(sp?), but that was destroyed in a horrific crash and subsequent fire that Corky survived, but ended his racing career at Moroso- now PBIR. I was right behind him, and was very upset to win my first National that way.

There were three Ralt Beasley's in the late nineties at the runoffs at MO. That was the car to beat with Mazda rotary power. After that, guys like Jacek Mucha started rebodying RT-40/41 Atlantics, significantly raising the money bar in CSR. Of course, many changes and advancement in DSR changed the entire face of Sports Racing as well.

Just a little history

[group3]

The chassis is an '84 RT5. Is there a difference between an RT4 and RT5 chassis that would be cause for concern, in that this car runs 10's and 14's? Note also the cut out in the right rear leg for clearance for the SK carbs, although it looks substantially reinforced.
Also, it is a MK9 trans with MK5 gears. Concerns here?
I believe it has push rod front and rocker rear suspension and a Bahner tub done in 1988.

[Stan Clayton]

Set-up info is easily available - It looks likes a Ralt RT-4 with Ben's body and Toyota power.

Not with that Mk9, bro...that's an RT-5. Not that there's a hellova lot of difference!

The chassis is an '84 RT5. Is there a difference between an RT4 and RT5 chassis that would be cause for concern, in that this car runs 10's and 14's? Note also the cut out in the right rear leg for clearance for the SK carbs, although it looks substantially reinforced.

No, you're good to go. In fact you can go to smaller tires & wheels if you like. If it was mine I'd run 8's and 10's.

Also, it is a MK9 trans with MK5 gears. Concerns here? I believe it has push rod front and rocker rear suspension and a Bahner tub done in 1988.

No concerns at all with a Bahner tub. Lean on it!

BTW, the Ralt RT-40 and RT41, plus the Swift 008a ALL used Mk5 internals, either stock or very slightly shaved, in their gearboxes. So don't worry about it at P1 weights and power.

[allof6]

That may be the the car built for Alan Miller (attorney) If I recall we did put a Toyota in the back of it and it did have the Beasly Body. Alan R. Miller PC attorney in Michigan http://www.alanrmillerpc.com/

[group3]

thank you, allof6. I think this would be the car. It seemed to have great success based on the number of National Event Winner stickers on it, from '92-93. Does that sound about the right time for you? I will try to reach out to him in the event he may have saved data, or would you still have information on this car?

Stan, thank you for your post, that information is most encouraging, these posts have been helpful to me.

[Charles Warner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYZrGaJjek&noredirect=1

Not enough detail to be sure they are the same car. This one has a different color exhaust and is definately an RT-5. Without seeing the fuel cell area I can't be sure of the chassis on the one in the original post.

The engine leg is a non-issue. There were several cars that were converted thusly.

The gearbox, however, is stressed about as much as it can be. Not that the gears are too weak, as the Reynards 89/90hs ran Mark 5/Mark 3A cogs. The problem comes from the case trying to separate laterally due to the increased loads placed on it by the bigger tires and the mounting system (or somehat lack of it) of the shocks. In bounce/jounce they place alternating loads on the side plates. That's why the Reynards were fitted with a box that only had one side plate: the other side was cast in. Fairly simple fix to run through bolts across the top of the side plates to strengthen the unit and make sure the side plate nuts are checked regularly. Running 8/10" wheels would certainly be interesting but would give up a bunch of cornering power.

The 1984 was a unique animal as it was Tauranac's first foray into push-rod cars. Still a good basic platform.

[allof6]

Iam sorry but my Memory of that is not that good. Yes it is the time period as we built it in the garage in Mansfield Oh. Myself and Brian(last name escapes me) former Truesports employee did the work and brian ran the car for Alan for awhile.

Alan probably has some records of his car he is an attorney... Good Luck

[group3]

thank you Charles, for your post and information. I was able to speak to Alan Miller, it seems this was his car. Very successful in '92 and '93. He mentioned that he had Steve Fried maintain the car for him. Alan was "waxing poetic" about campaigning the car, he is still most enthusiastic. He believes he passed on all data with the sale of the car so it now seems lost. Although if I get the car I will contact him again. The car no doubt will need a thorough inspection, I just now have to negotiate a fair price.

[group3]

I thought I would provide an update on this CSR car; I was able to see the car first hand and confirmed with Steve Fried this is the same car that Alan Miller and Steve ran back in the early 90's. Achieved a 2nd and 3rd in CSR at the Runoffs at Road Atlanta. The car is in need of a great deal of attention. I am still trying to negotiate a fair price.
While I was researching this car, I came across another CSR car built by Ben Beasley (rotary powered). Attached is a photo of the AM # if someone has the ability to provide info on this car, I would greatly appreciate it. There are NO Ralt chassis tags fixed to the car. I called Ben about this and he seemed non-pulsed about it.
If the attached photo is hard to see here is how the AM # is stamped on the front plate...
AM 85
84
28

thanks in advance for the input

[Charles Warner]

The AM 85 followed by 84 28 is confusing. It appears it might have been made in 84 but not assigned a number until 85. They certainly did not make 8,528 tubs in 1984. Plus the tub for 84 was different than 85. Maybe they converted a 1984 tub to 1985 specs. Not sure what a fair price is.

[group3]

Thank you, Charles. How significant are the changes between an '84 and an '85 chassis? Are the changes easily identifiable?
This car has pushrod front @ 57" track and rocker rear @ 55" track.
it would be great to get an explanation on the AM #.

[Charles Warner]

1984 was the first attempt at a front push-rod configuration and it was pretty much a disaster IIRC. They changed pickup points and geometries for the 1985 but beyond that I can't help. The 1986 was the further development of the 1985. They made very few of the 1984 and 1985 models as far as I know. The tracks sound like narrow track front and rear. Ideal is wide track front and narrow track rear.

[group3]

thanks, Charles. I appreciate your input and others willing to share information.

[group3]

Just a follow up in the search to understand the chassis number on a Ralt Super V as per the attached photo. I have a photo of the log book which is the replacement log book for the original one which is apparently lost. see attached photo in the upper left corner where it says, (re tub) with the AM # 85-84-28.
Could it be that the tub was redone in England and hence the additional stamp of the number 85 just as Charles suggested? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill Meyer]

Just discovered this thread.....
Not my car: mine was red and a narrow track ('82 I think), AMW powered. It went to a dentist in Buffalo in 2000. He installed a Datsun engine and ran it as a DSR regionally I recall.

[Keith02]

Hello,

I purchased a 84 Ralt RT 5 CSR Chassis # 460 Looking for info on the car as the log book was lost along the way.

[Keith02]

In my quest to learn more about the 84 Ralt RT 5 purchased a few years ago I came across this thread that discusses the history of the car with chassis # 460.

If group 3 is still active I would greatly appreciate learning about and obtaining the photo copied log book.

Th current plan is to convert the car back to a open wheel configuration. Any interest in the CSR body work ?

[group3]

group 3 here... I do not have the log books on this car. So, just for clarification and perhaps to satisfy my own curiousity...the car you have now is the toyota powered CSR car that was previously advertised as Jeff McPherson's '84 pro SV car, subsequently re-tubbed by Bahner and converted to the Beasley bodied CSR car.

signed, Armen Megregian aka group 3

[Keith02]

Yes

i believe this is the McPherson car ran in SV. Toyota 4 A GE powered

Chassis #460

group 3 here... I do not have the log books on this car. So, just for clarification and perhaps to satisfy my own curiousity...the car you have now is the toyota powered CSR car that was previously advertised as Jeff McPherson's '84 pro SV car, subsequently re-tubbed by Bahner and converted to the Beasley bodied CSR car.

signed, Armen Megregian aka group 3