Issues with Primus Racing, LLC/Primus Racing International

[Matt King]

Attachment 44682

I'm stealing that. Too awesome.

[allof6]

I'm stealing that. Too awesome.

[LenFC11]

+1 on brad

stand up guy. have dealt w him for many years. referred him to ppl. he has kept many a racer on track and has gone way above and beyond many times. if you are a regular customer he will send out stuff before payment is made. you cant form a parts relationship with a better supplier

[HazelNut]

Brad is a stand up guy. I've bought tons of parts from him / Primus Parts over the years and he's always been straight up.


I'd not hesitate for instant to continue doing business with him.

[HazelNut]

I'm also going to ad, Brad is one of the few guys who's been consistently willing to jackass all over the country to our events with a trailer full of parts to make sure that we could get cars back together and finish out weekends after we ball up our cars (it happens).

I've done the self-sufficient huge spares package routine. Having a parts guy on hand is a way better option. So thanks Brad!

[DFR Dave Freitas]

I feel safer having Brad keep all my credit card numbers than I do having my wife know them.

[Tim Minor]

I have been a customer of Brads,for the better part of 20 years.He is a stand up guy,I will continue to use him for my parts needs and look forward to him being able to provide the good Service everyone in the paddock has come to expect.
Yir
Tim MinorFc88

[Daryl DeArman]

A bit of a tangent here but perhaps worth mentioning...

Mentioning a company keeps your CC info on file in order to illustrate the trust you have in them speaks well, it could backfire against the company you are trying to defend.

I understand companies do this as a convenience/courtesy to their customers. Expedites the ordering process/can order from the track when scrambling and don't have the CC handy.

HOWEVER, as a business owner myself and tired of all the BS rules and constantly changing regulations and government meddling the CISP-PCI rules that allow a vendor to store such information are very expensive to comply with.

Announcing that a vendor does that who may not be complying with such CISP-PCI rules could affect their ability to accept VISA/MC in the future should somebody from such agency also be a fan of amatuer auto racing get their panties in a wad.

Just keep the practice hush-hush and talk about other great examples of how you trust them.

[mikey]

Yes, he can be serious. I have been operating a (small) racing business for the last 30+ years. When someone wants a part I send it to them, with a stamped envelope inside, with the understanding that if it is as advertised and he is content he puts a personal check in the envelope and puts it in the mail. If, FOR ANY REASON, he is not satisfied, he sends the part back with a check to cover my shipping. I have NEVER had anyone refuse this arrangement. In the 30+ years I've been doing this I have only had ONE individual try to stiff me and that was a pro atlantic team (who paid up after I contacted his named sponsor.) I have only had to contact a buyer over late payments a few times.

So, you can indeed operate a business this way.

Mick Robertson did this as well.. often shipped parts and emailed in invoice later. It's not a model exclusive to auto racing, I've seen this practice employed with a local pizza joint and often vendors in very small towns where folks know folks. The formula car community is like a very small town. The population knows each other.

That said, there is certainly more risk for the vendor than the consumer (collectively). Any single transaction carries the same amount of risk for both parties, but cumulatively the vendor is more likely to find a bad apple and likewise is disincentivized from being a crook if the business is their livelihood.

[DB4 Tim]

You sir have have respect of the racer...not all business folks do......I thank you for that perspective.

Yes, he can be serious. I have been operating a (small) racing business for the last 30+ years. When someone wants a part I send it to them, with a stamped envelope inside, with the understanding that if it is as advertised and he is content he puts a personal check in the envelope and puts it in the mail. If, FOR ANY REASON, he is not satisfied, he sends the part back with a check to cover my shipping. I have NEVER had anyone refuse this arrangement. In the 30+ years I've been doing this I have only had ONE individual try to stiff me and that was a pro atlantic team (who paid up after I contacted his named sponsor.) I have only had to contact a buyer over late payments a few times.

So, you can indeed operate a business this way.

[iamuwere]

Points:
1. Brad is not Jon
2. Primus and Primus are not the same thing
3. Brad has been a great help to me over the last year coming into F2kcs. He has gone above and beyond to help me out. Thank you very much, Brad.


4. I work own a business where I hope to be paid after rendering services without knowing whether I will be paid in reality. I turns out that 18% of my business revenue is uncollected over one year and will likely never be collected. Given up on as bad debt. Thankfully, I don't think 1/5 of ApexSpeed users are this level of deadbeat.

[Daryl DeArman]

I work own a business where I hope to be paid after rendering services without knowing whether I will be paid in reality. I turns out that 18% of my business revenue is uncollected over one year and will likely never be collected. Given up on as bad debt.

WOW! With 100% of my clients on NET 30 terms, I have 2.5% of my A/R between 30-60days and nothing >60days and I get nervous.

[iamuwere]

Yeah. It sucks.

[ric baribeault]

I've been dealing with Brad for years. I find him completely trustworthy and reliable. I wouldn't lump him in with a deal with Jon that went bad.

[brownslane]

Folks, for all of you worrying about giving your credit card over the phone, or leaving the card number on file with a vendor; have you ever read your card-holder agreement? I run a mail-order parts business since 1996. Over the years I have been scammed, lied to and abused more than once. That is part of our business..similar to "shrinkage" in a bricks and mortar store. But I digress.

Call your credit card supplier and verify this...my experience is most often with Canadian cardholders so the US experience might be different, but I doubt it.

You have 90 days to question ANY card transaction on your statement. All you have to do is contact the card issuer and they will suspend the transaction and contact the vendor who MUST PROVE THE TRANSACTION IS VALID. Let me assure you the paperwork to prove the transaction was requested by the customer, authorized by that customer, and delivery was completed is onerous. The credit card transaction is weighted to protect the consumer not the vendor.

If I were to ship the parts to my customers and then trust they would pay me I would have shuttered the doors in the first 6 months. I guess that says a lot about the differences between racers and Jaguar owners

With my wholesale customers we used to run on a net 30 basis; it would take me a full two days a month to sort their bills, send summary statements. Two full days where I was not generating revenue for my business. When the economy dumped a few years ago I got stuck with over $80G's in receivables. I won't ship a button without pre-payment now. Not only do I get paid, but I have saved 2 days a month!

Remember that Brad probably is working 7 days a week and does not have two extra days a month to help organize (read: chase) his customers for payments. If the parts you buy from him are NOT what you ordered or if you were ever to be fraudulently charged, you have binding recourse through your credit card company. You are protected!

None of the above protection applies if you use PayPal (in my experience), cash, or check....where your only recourse is the State's Attorney General and/or lawyers.

I sure hope something can be done to correct the situation Jon Baytos appears to have created.

Best, Tom

[Brian C in Az]

Thats like "hey, make me a cake and I will pay after i eat it" "hey, build me an engine, and I will pay after ….
Marchand Juan

I guess that you have never had a plumber or furnace repairman come to your home and fix something. Our customers always pay AFTER we finish the work and they can see the repairs are complete. Most service industries operate under the same business model; quote a price, perform the work, show the customer that the work is completed, then collect payment.

Brad stepped into this with his initial post. It would have been wiser had he asked Parker for more details, then assisted Parker in getting his refund. As others mentioned, Brad probably knows his brother does not have good business ethics. He should at least help instead of saying "It's not my company…." Similarly named companies cause too much confusion; which Primus is the good one, which Primus is the crook????

[Brian C in Az]

Here is another thread regarding Brad Baytos
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=57585

Unaswered calls regarding completion of a transaction. It would seem that both Baytos brothers are slow in responding to customer inquiries.

[Parker]

“Mr. Parker, yes Jon and I have been partners for a long time and we will always be associated with each other. . I have sold parts from my company since 2007 as the sole owner. I don't run a race team at Primus Racing Parts. Your memory seems to be a bit foggy. I may have told you to call Jon because that's what he does is run a race team. I have also refered many customers to many different raceteams. I never did any contract with you or never received any money from you so I guess you need to get your facts straight. Why don't you call me on the phone explain what you are talking about. I guess you have my number.”






I agree with your first statement and you and Jon have proved that to me.


Being a sole owner does not disassociate yourself from someone working with or for you.


You did not get a check from me because I was told to send it to the follow recipient:

Margie Baytos
suite 106/725 83rd Ave North
St.Pete,Florida 33702
727-744-5255







Brad, where was your described above and beyond customer support when I called you and asked you about racing with Primus? Where was your concerned attitude and trustworthiness when you referred Jon to me? Jon is, as I’ve come to know from talking with the community, a well known scam-er and crook. How can you or anyone who has posted here justify your actions in this case?

You helped set the trap that I fell into and I have presented evidence to illustrate this. Are you going to help get me out (with your admitted association to Jon) and continue to demonstrate service to the racing community?




I ask the formula racing community again for help with this matter and I promise I have acted in good faith throughout my sad relationship with Primus.


Thank you, Anthony.

[racinray]

Anthony,

I really do feel for you on this situation because it does sound like you didn't get what was legally agreed to by the parties involved. I'm not a lawyer but part of my job is negotiating contracts and when things go wrong you really need to stick to the legal stuff that matters. It is obvious that there are different companies with the word "Primus" in them. What was the legal name of the company in the contract that you signed? Who signed the contract and what was his/her title? Was Brad's name or his company's name mentioned anywhere in the contract? It all boils down to what is in that legal document. You have a lawyer which is good and he seems to be giving you good advice so IMO your best bet is to follow it and try to get satisfaction through the legal process. However, keep in mind that it just may not be worth it, unfortunately. It all depends on how long you think it is going to take and how much money you are out. I have been screwed before but thankfully not for large amounts although it still sucked. But if Jon Baytos is the offender who didn't fulfill his end of the contract then I don't think it is fair to drag Brad's name through the mud. I know nothing about Jon but I do know that Brad has been very honest with me and I would certainly have no problem sending business his way. Good luck and I would be interested to here the outcome.

Ray

[Ralph Z.]

I have ordered parts from Brad many times over the years and have always been treated fairly. In fact, he is the first person I turned to when I raced Van Diemens.

I would recommend doing business with Brad.

It seems there are a few folks on this thread who are unable to separate the Baytos brothers despite the fact that they operate two different businesses under two different legal entities. What's more, despite their common sir name and relationship, they are individuals.

Is it that difficult to recognize the differences? We make judgments in doing business with different companies nearly every day. Use some common sense.

[allof6]

It seems there are a few folks on this thread who are unable to separate the Baytos brothers despite the fact that they operate two different businesses under two different legal entities. What's more, despite their common sir name and relationship, they are individuals.

Is it that difficult to recognize the differences? We make judgments in doing business with different companies nearly every day. Use some common sense.

Maybe the problem is not Brad but there was obvious dialog between him and Anthony however unfortunately Jon may be leaving the impression that they work as one in a manner to make his operation look stronger. There are plenty of Press releases out there that quote both Brad and Jon under one umbrella. So even if Brad isn't the problem he definitely has a problem with his brother and his business practices.

I am currently dealing with a similar issue with a business partner and cant seem to get separation.

Brad should take note if he cares about his business and it reputation as Jon can quickly destroy it.

[Charles Warner]

So even if Brad isn't the problem he defiantly has a problem with his brother and his business practices.

Is this an example of a Cupertino or did you actually mean "defiantly?"

[Ralph Z.]

Maybe the problem is not Brad but there was obvious dialog between him and Anthony however unfortunately Jon may be leaving the impression that they work as one in a manner to make his operation look stronger. There are plenty of Press releases out there that quote both Brad and Jon under one umbrella. So even if Brad isn't the problem he definitely has a problem with his brother and his business practices.

I am currently dealing with a similar issue with a business partner and cant seem to get separation.

Brad should take note if he cares about his business and it reputation as Jon can quickly destroy it.

Brad may want to consider changing his company name to provide a little more separation. Not that hard to do if you do it over time.

[Mike B]

To be clear, as a customer, Brad has always gone the extra mile and done whatever it takes to make sure I get my parts. Unfortunately, he doesn't treat his suppliers the same way. It would be great if I didn't have to pay my suppliers and my business would be much more profitable. Of course, even I know that I would start losing my suppliers in short order.

[Ralph Z.]

To be clear, as a customer, Brad has always gone the extra mile and done whatever it takes to make sure I get my parts. Unfortunately, he doesn't treat his suppliers the same way. It would be great if I didn't have to pay my suppliers and my business would be much more profitable. Of course, even I know that I would start losing my suppliers in short order.

I'm guessing that if Brad wasn't paying his suppliers that he would have no products to offer and therefore no business.

[Daryl DeArman]

Depends....lots of suppliers out there to source bits and materials from. There is a reason some of my clients are on shorter leashes than others.

[Ralph Z.]

My guess is that the margins in distributing racing parts are pretty thin and that most distributors stretch suppliers to help with cash flow. That's understandable as most distributors in other industries do the same. Stretching payment is different than not paying at all.

[Mike B]

I'm guessing that if Brad wasn't paying his suppliers that he would have no products to offer and therefore no business.

Good guess. Maybe I've been dreaming this. Maybe the other suppliers I know of are also dreaming it.

My guess is that the margins in distributing racing parts are pretty thin and that most distributors stretch suppliers to help with cash flow. That's understandable as most distributors in other industries do the same. Stretching payment is different than not paying at all.

Another good guess...for most of us. However, when you don't pay suppliers, the margins are great. Kind of like free money.
A stretch would be like 60-90 days. Not two years.

Any other guesses?

[Daryl DeArman]

most distributors stretch suppliers to help with cash flow. That's understandable as most distributors in other industries do the same.

Actually, it's not understandable. It's poor business ethics. You need 60 day terms from your suppliers? Negotiate those terms into the pricing.

Any other guesses?

Uh, you weren't paid by the "good" Baytos?

[Ralph Z.]

Good guess. Maybe I've been dreaming this. Maybe the other suppliers I know of are also dreaming it.



Another good guess...for most of us. However, when you don't pay suppliers, the margins are great. Kind of like free money.
A stretch would be like 60-90 days. Not two years.

Any other guesses?

Who continues to ship product to a distributor who hasn't paid in two years?

[brownslane]

Who continues to ship product to a distributor who hasn't paid in two years?

Ralph, NOBODY supplies customers who do not pay; that does not change the fact that they still owe you for work done previously. Mike is being straight with us.

[Parker]

I don't have any knowledge of Primus supplier relationships and I wish this tangent were on another thread, but I am interested in the purpose of the following statement.

"Who continues to ship product to a distributor who hasn't paid in two years?"

Was it to suggest that Mike B was at fault for not getting paid?

Was it to discredit Mike B as a capable business person?

Or, was it just to say something?

[brownslane]

I don't have any knowledge of Primus supplier relationships and I wish this tangent were on another thread, but I am interested in the purpose of the following statement.

"Who continues to ship product to a distributor who hasn't paid in two years?"

Was it to suggest that Mike B was at fault for not getting paid?

Was it to discredit Mike B as a capable business person?

Or, was it just to say something?

[Ralph Z.]

Unfortunately, he doesn't treat his suppliers the same way. It would be great if I didn't have to pay my suppliers and my business would be much more profitable. Of course, even I know that I would start losing my suppliers in short order.

The above quote suggested that Brad doesn't pay his suppliers. Can you clarify?

[Brian C in Az]

I don't have any knowledge of Primus supplier relationships and I wish this tangent were on another thread…..

Actually, it should be brought up in this thread. Brad jumped in a claimed that he is a straight up guy and that we should not confuse him with his brother that cheated you. Now we see that Brad is not as squeaky clean as he claims.

Mike did the right thing to point out that Brad stiffed him 2 years ago.

Daryl appears to confer with Mike, so that adds credibility to his claims.

All of us on Apex are potential customers for Brad and his brother. I appreciate you airing your grievance online and I appreciate Mike and Daryl adding their unfortunate business dealings with Brad. As a consumer, I don't want to give my business to anyone that cheats either a supplier or a customer.

[Brian C in Az]

You did not get a check from me because I was told to send it to the follow recipient:

Margie Baytos
suite 106/725 83rd Ave North
St.Pete,Florida 33702
727-744-5255







Brad, where was your described above and beyond customer support when I called you and asked you about racing with Primus? Where was your concerned attitude and trustworthiness when you referred Jon to me? Jon is, as I’ve come to know from talking with the community, a well known scam-er and crook. How can you or anyone who has posted here justify your actions in this case?

You helped set the trap that I fell into and I have presented evidence to illustrate this. Are you going to help get me out (with your admitted association to Jon) and continue to demonstrate service to the racing community?

This really sums it up quite well. Parker called Brad about racing. Brad referred Parker to his brother Jon. Brad continued to recommend his brother and imply partenership with his brother in the early stages of the deal. Jon also mentioned a partnership with Brad through out the deal. Now the deal has gone sour and Brad wants to claim "Not me, it's my brother…" That does not fly at this point. Brad never distanced himself from his brother early on in the deal; quite the contrary.

As a small business owner, I know the only the solution is for Brad to step up and take care of Parker. If I was in Brad's position, I would be sending Parker a check for a refund in full and I would either collect from my brother or write it off. Sometimes, doing the right thing is hard, but it is the only thing to do.

[Parker]

Brian C in Az,

I completely agree with you except I think multiple threads would do a better job of serving the community.

A greater chance of a new guy coming across one of many than one really long thread.

[DB4 Tim]

Having this in Retail Business Feedback is the best place for it to be ...our search is great

[Brian C in Az]

I have noticed that this thread is getting hundreds of views each day. The people viewing this were potential customers for Brad that he has lost. He will probably lose a lot more money by not helping Parker than had he stepped up and done the right thing in the beginning.

Marshall would have ordered his suspension parts from Brad. Now he will probably not. I'm sure there are many others like myself that will also take our business elsewhere as a result of Brad's involvement and lack of willingness to help Parker.

[Dennis McCarthy]

I think it's time for Apex to close this thread down.

Anthony aired his issue and no one here is going to get him any more satisfaction than he or his attorney can. It's a tough pill to swallow and i'm sure in his next deal he'll not be so trusting.

There is not much more to be said and turning this into a let's lynch Brad festival isn't going to get Anthony's problem resolved....