New FV motor?

[Matt King]

This would be a great option for FV. No moving parts to break

I want to see what the cooling scoops will look like.

[jhenn4716]

Honestly we are having great success promoting and developing FST here in the Midwest and we have not even approached a single FV guy to join us. Honestly we don't even care one little bit what FV guys do. Just go racing have fun and sing the virtues of the class you participate. It's a lot more fun !!!!!!

If you don't care, why are you on a FV thread?

[Amon]

I agree, if you don't care then why are you posting here??? Stay in the FST section and let
us worry about our class.

[provamo]

I agree, if you don't care then why are you posting here??? Stay in the FST section and let
us worry about our class.

this is kinda funny............if you replace the Vee engine is it a Formula Vee class any longer?

[problemchild]

this is kinda funny............if you replace the Vee engine is it a Formula Vee class any longer?

And the aliens would probably take Bill's engine too (probably sooner as parts are cheaper and more available) and he will also need a new engine. Perhaps the aliens will be responsible for uniting FST and FV. Perhaps we can convince them to take all the cars in the 15-or-so least-subscribed SCCA national classes too and then sponsor all the remaining FV racers while promoting the class and recruiting newbies

[Amon]

Provamo,

And your post relates to what Rave and myself said in what manner?? Now that's
kinda funny!

[rave motorsports]

Honestly we are having great success promoting and developing FST here in the Midwest and we have not even approached a single FV guy to join us. Honestly we don't even care one little bit what FV guys do. Just go racing have fun and sing the virtues of the class you participate. It's a lot more fun !!!!!!

I'm here to make sure the market price for my leftover FV parts stays over inflated till I get them all sold.

[captaineddie1975]

This would be a great option for FV. No moving parts to break

Get 50 of these together heading into turn 5 at Road America and watch out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0KJwa5iWTY

How did you gain access to our F500/600 skunk works? That kart combo is the next step for our cars now that F5/6 are combined so that we have something new to argue about.

[Bill Bonow]

Ed,

Ever since I found out about valve less pulse jets, I've been ready to test one in an FV. These things looks to be great for the whole family (as seen in photos). I understand they are extremely loud too! Such fun!

[sracing]

Yes every FST driver or advocate will tout the availability of the 1600 parts. That's great. But what is the cost of switching from the 1200 to the 1600?

A lot less than ANY other conversion that is possible.

It's not cheap to switch, regardless of how much of the 1200 parts you sell, or might be able to sell.

Depends upon what you call "cheap". I don't know of ANY other class that has made a significant drive train change that didn't cost MUCH more.

So you have a car that's maybe a little faster in certain situations,

In what situation is it not faster?

with parts that will be around for a little bit longer. I say big deal! There's no upside.

ACVW aftermarket parts will be around for another 25 years if not more. Consider that VW made 10 times as many 1600's as they did 1200's Consider that several companies are still producing 1600's turnkey, and all the parts needed for a 1600. Most all 1200 manufacturing stopped MANY years ago. All current 1600 parts are better and cheaper than 1200 parts.

For the cost of a FV, plus money for an upgrade to FST ($7000), plus a bit more and a driver could just move up a class (FF). Where's the incentive for a new driver?

Yep.. and then do how many races per year at the same cost? In any case, the thread was about a new engine for FV, not moving to FF.

I think we could find an alternative engine option for less than $7000. Keep the rest of the FV package.

The $7000 number you use is the high side based upon ALL NEW parts and Retail pricing. I thought this was a "tinkerers class"? If so you can do it for almost 1/2 that...

Let us know when you find that drop in engine (that has reliability, longevity and a decent price.) (and keep LP beams, Drums etc...)

For a lot of reasons the ACVW 1600 (FST) may NOT be the class for you. However it IS the best migration for FV to keep it going many more years.

[Mark Filip]

I have to agree with Jim on this any other engine than a VW air cooled engine would be a waste. There are tons and tons of 1600 parts still being made. With all the sand rail guys and the hot rod VW stuff it's mind boggling how much stuff is made and at reasonable prices. I don't think there is another engine out that has been around as long with as much support. Maybe a small block Chevy? Think about how many classes have had the need to change engines, FV has made it 50 years and with the 1600 I bet it could make another 50.

[mikehinkle]

Why has no one mentioned the Yamaha FJ1200 that the legends cars use? there's already a ton of aftermarket race parts made for the engine and builders out there.

[Jnovak]

There is no decision to make here. The market place and the costs are making the decision for you Don't be afraid of this as it will revitalize the class IMO.

Guess what the answer is, it has been there for a long time.

[racerdad2]

The Yamaha makes way too much horsepower

[Daryl DeArman]

Another possibility? Ditch the centrifugal clutch. Couple the shaft to an existing transaxle and everything else can remain VW swing-axle.

65HP weighs less than 55# complete. Very small package. Cut the FV minimum weight by 150# and you now have a quicker (less slow), better braking car with longer lasting tires. No more $10K FV motors either.

http://www.mega-kart.com/index.cfm?s...tor&sprache=EN

[BLS]

Uh, Daryl, you got something in mind here?

[Daryl DeArman]

Uh, Daryl, you got something in mind here?

Added the missing link!

[Jnovak]

Way to narrow a power band for the Vdub trans.

[ChristopherBernard]

Back to the beginning of the thread.
The Nissan three cylinder, 400 hp engine was being developed by Ray Mallock Limited.
As in ; Arthur Mallocks son. For those who never thought Mallocks would never come to anything.
Just sayin.

[provamo]

Mallocks have always been cool

[Jnovak]

Mallocks have always been cool

Always!

[nbrigido]

Funny that even a thread intended to be funny turns into a FV/FST debate, somewhere along the line.

Marciano, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield, Foreman..most everyone know's who they are. Who is the Current champion??? (without using google).

That's what they will be saying about us if we keep this up. Bad enough that the Classe was diluted, with 2 similar series.

[provamo]

two similar series?

[Daryl DeArman]

Way to narrow a power band for the Vdub trans.

Of course it's a bit "peaky". I'm sure RLV could come up with a slippy pipe that would at least make that 3rd-4th split not much worse than a FV. Knowing full well it would never be implemented as an option, just fun to see what other 60-65 HP options are out there in a small package.

[Tiago Santos]

Who is the Current champion??? (without using google).

Current what champion? FV? Easy, Terran!

:P

[Amon]

I thought Rick won it???

[Johan W]

Okay, fair enough. How about adopting the South African Formula Vee solution...an FF chassis with FV H-beam and transaxle mated to a water-cooled EFI VW Golf/Jetta engine?

I have one that will be racing in the Libre class from September. Just going to do the anniversary race and 2hr endure in SA. Shipping it to Waterdown Ontario after the races. Built 14 of then. Have the Polo 1400 engine . Motor standard and last few years. Anybody welcome to try it on Mosport or close by. Can post some photos of the engine. Adaptor no problem and will fit in all chassis. However....theres a few that HATE even the discussion of change and don't like having my Vee here on the track.

You can see the Lagus on my photo album that started with the 1300 Citi engine and single carb with drum brakes. we then got a major sponsor from VW who supplied the Polo engine very cheap and also from 2013 a full tyre sponsor. This Vees not a lot quicker then the 1200's just way more reliable.

In my opinion a way to get sponsors easier due to relevance. Now I have to run and hide once again before Mr Rice and Co catch up with me .....

Looks good! But, why not just go FF?

Very simple answer...start with gearbox: standard shortbox only not an expensive Hewland box

Front suspension still VW not expensive FF suspension.

The chassis not FF chassis....not close. Can e-mail you the photos of the chassis(still have about five) standing in my workshop.

The complete engine standard VW POLO 1400 engine with Vee cam available from FVSA

I helped and sponsored the change in the eighties to water cooled(then 1300 Citi golf motors) Suddenly we got the attention from VW SA that promoted with sponsors the move to the Polo engine.

The move was just in time to take the spotlight off FF with the result that FV grew and FF disappeared into SA Libre.

However I must agree with Greg that this may have casualties in the current economic doom and gloom and should be seen as a huge risk to make a change right now. Im bringing my Polo Vee and may built/finish those in my workshop for my friends and family to race/play in the Libres class or maybe just weekend fun at places like Cayuga.

Yes every FST driver or advocate will tout the availability of the 1600 parts. That's great. But what is the cost of switching from the 1200 to the 1600? Where's Bonow when I need him. It's not cheap to switch, regardless of how much of the 1200 parts you sell, or might be able to sell. So you have a car that's maybe a little faster in certain situations, with parts that will be around for a little bit longer. I say big deal! There's no upside.

For the cost of a FV, plus money for an upgrade to FST ($7000), plus a bit more and a driver could just move up a class (FF). Where's the incentive for a new driver?

I think we could find an alternative engine option for less than $7000. Keep the rest of the FV package.

Polo engine complete with adaptor, rad and oil cooler way cheaper.

I like the idea of using a 4cyl EFI water cooled motor. If you look at the Fit motors in FF, if properly maintained they can last many seasons. A good mass produced 4cyl detuned and rev limited to 80-90hp would make for a very fun class and would be much more reliable than the air cooled motors. Plus it would cut down on the closing speeds of the faster classes.

That's a Rhema on the photo that retail new between US $ 9500 and $ 10000 at the current exchange rates. Can get them from $ 5000 with two years of racing and still on original engine and new tyres. They have full tyre sponsors....get one set per year that should last two years.

Unfortunately a bit over "tyred" and slow the car down a bit. But due to the sponsor ship they are happy to have them.

Not much faster then the 1200's and maybe the same as the 1600's I would guess.

this is kinda funny............if you replace the Vee engine is it a Formula Vee class any longer?

Yes Volkswagen made it clear with their sponsorship...they approach Formula Vee with their suggestion to change from the Citi Golf engine to the new VW Polo engine and use the Vees in their promotional videos. you also see them regularly in VW dealer showrooms advertising the Polos alongside the vees.

[Stan Clayton]

The chassis not FF chassis....not close. Can e-mail you the photos of the chassis(still have about five) standing in my workshop.

Yes please!