shifters

[KVS84]

After doing some research on the various shifters I wanted know what people's opinions were that have used them. Geartronics is expensive and looks like a ton of parts. Proshift looks really slick. Flatshifter although basic looks like a good bang for the buck. Thoughts and opinions please!

[David Ferguson]

We have used the Proshift PS2 (older model) on a Stohr DSR with Suzuki GXSR, and it's worked perfectly. We also installed the newer PS-3 on Jason Bell's Stohr F1000, and I believe it has worked well once we sorted out a bad blipper. I am installing another PS-3 currently on another Stohr F1000.

I like the tunability of the PS-3, but the software is a bit clunky. I have found I get the best results if the I use the default settings supplied by Pro-Shift.

As the PS2 system in our car won't be legal for the P2 class come September, it may be for sale complete with the optional paddles, and vacuum blipper.

[glenn cooper]

Love my Geartronics, and I'd bet JRO, and Brandon love/loved the unit on that Citation!
It works amazingly well, and the only issues I have ever had were self inflicted...
The performance seems to be highly repeatable.

[JerryH]

We have been using the Flat Shifter Expert on the JDR. It has worked well for us.

Jerry Hodges
JDR Race Cars
jdrmotorsport.com

[RussMcB]

There you go, Keegan. That should make your choice obvious. :-)

[KVS84]

Right Russ?!

Coop- I've read about some of the cool features of the Geartronics but how is the software? Has it become more user friendly?

Jerry- Are you using the Flatshifter Max? The electronic paddle setup?

David- Your experience with Proshift is exactly what I've been told by another user. Kinda leaning that direction but curious if people have any experience with the Flatshifter Max set up.

[glenn cooper]

Belling oughta be back from vacation soon - he'd be a good one to comment on the user-friendliness aspect, but I believe the answer is "yes".
It costs more because it's better(!)

[Jnovak]

We have used the flat shifter max for a couple of year with zero problems. Of course we also won the Runoffs with it the first time we used it.

[AEA_Team_Lotus]

I have a Proshift PS3 in my Stohr, and just put one in my Radical, and have had zero problems, if you want to take a ride down to Rhode island, your more than welcome to check out the installation and see the functionality.

[JRMarchand]

Keegan

The ProShift PS2 or PS3 is what I would recommend, I have a demo PS2 installed in my FB with the new style (electro-magnetic) throttle blipper and shifter solenoid. Both the PS2/PS3 come in a universal kit form. ProShift manufactures brackets that are engine specific. I like the Titanium paddles, these have a nice light feel and after 7 years of use in a radical and now in the FB, never had a major issue. The shifter solenoid is of a new design and seem to handle heat better than anticipated. Installation normally takes less than 3 hours on some specific applications but may be more on some others. The PS3 has more logic and its many parameters are adjustable via PC. Both PS2/PS3 are user adjustable.

Which model/year engine are we talking about, I can find out for you with Lynda at ProShift if you have an engine specific kit. Pictures of the engine mounted in the chassis would be helpful also.

ProShift also has really good service. I can help you decide. PM me.

Regards Marchand Juan R

[Nicholas Belling]

keagan,

for all the FB & DSR motors geartronics has now an optimal tuned configuration file specific to each motor.

All you need to do every weekend with a geartronics system is check once before a weekend that the optical hal gear position sensor on the gearbox is clocked in the correct gear orientation.. if not it takes less than a minute to reprogram with each drive gear and neutral. This is done via a laptop connected to the Gear control unit on the car.

2nd thing is checking the max throttle blip from the actuator confirm and set if needed.

Unlike these other systems listed geartronics actually monitors the gear drum at a high bitrate in its closed loop function to intelligently know exactly when to initiate its torque reduction strategies.. where the other systems simply use force sensors and pre-defined user customized kill timers with basic ignition cut strategies.. It is impossible with a stock Suzuki gear sensor to get any resolution on these systems.

another thing being phumatic for the blipper and actuator we have consistency through all temperature ranges on every shift and blip.. cant say that for a solenoid valve assembly from 100 to 300 F temperature ranges.

That's really it.

the software even though very advanced we have made a more simplified version for customers that allows only the basic modifications and checks.. thus not allowing any mistaken or wrong settings to be inputted.

it is nice when you put a big investment into a car that you have something that can handle extreme motorsports environments and transfer to any future bought sequential gearbox based car in the future.

email me at email@nicholasbelling.com and I would be happy to go over everything regarding geartronics and your FB/DSR car.

[JakeL]

Jerry- Are you using the Flatshifter Max? The electronic paddle setup?

I'll answer for Jerry and he can correct me if necessary - what I saw in the JDR was a mechanical shift linkage, so I believe they were using the FlatShifter Expert, which is a load cell for ignition cuts/blips when the driver actuates the linkage - no paddles. It's what I use on my Stohr as well - it's simple, reliable, and effective.

I'll voice my opinion here, which appears to be increasingly in the minority among my FB and DSR brethren: What I have seen of the flappy paddle shifters, is that while totally awesome and slick when working, they appear - from the outside - to be a major headache to live with.

My observation/opinion is that something is forever going wrong - gear position sensor dies, solenoid something-or-another sticks open and you can't get gears, some pump or solenoid overheats, some wiring fails, have to recalibrate it for the rain or it doesn't shift right, whatever. Guys are forever having to recalibrate, rewire, or otherwise screw with them in the pits. I can count at least 5 guys over the past few years that have missed an important session or race because their paddle shifter acted up.

So, take this dissenting opinion for what it's worth. The $5,000 or $8,000 or whatever the expensive ones cost now will buy a lot of races, tires, and track time. Just expect going in that you're likely to spend a lot of time getting it sorted out, and feel happy if it comes together easily.

my $0.02, and "get off my lawn",

-Jake

[Northwind]

Now if only a guy would come up with a cheap, simple and reliable, cable blipper!

[Brett Lane]

Now if only a guy would come up with a cheap, simple and reliable, cable blipper!

Wha? Huh? I think I've seen one of those before....

[Maciej]

Wha? Huh? I think I've seen one of those before....

I think it's actuated by a skillful right foot...

[KVS84]

Jake,

I've had the same exact opinion as you for years about the shifters. My Stohr cable paddle set up has been dead reliable for 3 seasons. The problem I have now with the BMW is its a little tougher to shift with the cable than the Suzuki was. I'm spending too much time thinking about shifting while I'm driving. I was hoping they had become more reliable over the last few years. Do you use cable or linkage on your Stohr?

Anthony,

I'd love to come take a look at your Stohr. Proshift just did a set up on a BMW bike so they might have the mounting bracket I need.

Nicolas,

Thank you very much for the info about Geartronics. I think we're leaning more towards the Proshift right now due to less moving parts and expense. In DSR it's all about weight savings and I'm not sure I'd have room for a compressor anyways. Sounds like some pretty sophisticated stuff though!

Thank you everyone for .02 cents on the matter it's much appreciated!

[JakeL]

Keegan -

No sweat. I may also be singing a different tune after I try to shift the Kawi...

-Jake

[JerryH]

Jake is correct. We are using the Flat Shifter Expert (with no paddles) on the JDR. We have our own design mechanical bump shifter system.......very light and mounted in needle bearings for low friction.....mass and friction being the things that seem to keep mechanical or cable systems from working well with the MC engnes. Cables we tried had more friction than we liked.

Our car has very light steering forces....it can be driven with one hand, even in high speed corners......so shifting with a normal shift lever is no sweat. (If you buy a car I will tell you how we do that.....and no we didn't reduce castor to do it. We gained mechanical grip from the same design feature. There's a lot more to the JDR than the aero package.....and even it works in ways that go beyond the obvious.)

Sorry for the commercial....I am proud of the car....and it's hard not to brag a bit now and then.

A couple of drivers have driven the car fast without any shifting aids....but the blipper and no lift features are a definate plus for most who have driven the car.....so some system is needed. This setup is simple and reliable....and it works well. Other systems out there seem to be working too.....but they all seem more complex.....so there are more chances for malfunctions......which I like to avoid. KISS

Of course if someone wants something different as part of a new car purchase, we can install it during the build process. In the interest of avoiding problems, we much prefer our cars go out the door fully ready to race.....engine installed and all plumbing and wiring done.....truely ready to race.

No matter what shifting system you use or what chassis you drive, F1000 is by far the best class in scca. you will love it!

Jerry Hodges
JDR Race Cars
jdrmotorsport.com