'83 VD FF converted to SV CSR SARRC champ WTD??

[Scott Nevin]

Hi, am new here and am seeking advice or info on how to proceed with re-engining a converted '83 VD FF or possibly SV car. I'd mostly prefer to keep it CSR at this point in time. I'd appreciate your thoughts / input on getting this car back on the track in some fashion. the car was SARRC champ in '87 with Scirocco mtr. It is in good condition but has no motor. Has Hewland MK9, McCann body, frame and suspension in vgc. Certainly some form of vintage or possibly regional competition I'm thinking. That leads to :

What engine to build and install?

2.0 pinto
2.3 pinto
16v Toyota
Zetec
Duratec

I am trying to understand what would be the better as regards power&reliblitity per $ in consideration on where/what it would run.

Or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, should it go back to FF?

I very much would like to hear your thoughts

Best to you all, Scott Nevin Greer, SC

[BURKY]

Pics?

[Marty Nygard]

Hi Scott,
You must be referring to that car from Missouri on the Race-Car site.
If it were mine (and believe me, I though about buying it), I would stuff in a mildly uprated (see other posts on this board) 1600 ford being careful to stay within the transaxles power limitations. Drive it in that configuration as an SCCA P2 or a vintage car for a while and, in the mean time, see if FF body parts are available in case you want to convert to open wheel.
Good luck and have fun.
Marty

[Scott Nevin]

I forgot pics :]

[Offcamber1]

Hi Scott,
You must be referring to that car from Missouri on the Race-Car site.
If it were mine (and believe me, I though about buying it), I would stuff in a mildly uprated (see other posts on this board) 1600 ford being careful to stay within the transaxles power limitations. Drive it in that configuration as an SCCA P2 or a vintage car for a while and, in the mean time, see if FF body parts are available in case you want to convert to open wheel.
Good luck and have fun.
Marty

Scott,

I looked at it too and agree with Marty. I have access to a mildly uprated 1600 with twin 40dcoe weber carbs, fresh motor, if you are interested. Might be the quickest way to get it back on the track where it belongs.

PM me if you are interested in details on the hot Cortina donk.

Cool car, great project btw.

Ciao,

Kip

[Scott Nevin]

Marty - Yes it is the MO car. There was something about it that i couldn't let go of. I did track down the log book for the car which is a good thing.

Kip - pm coming at you re Cortina eng


?'s:

What is max engine the MK9 can handle?

I'm leaning toward a 2.0 - would that be too much?

thanks!

[DanW]

?'s:

What is max engine the MK9 can handle?

I'm leaning toward a 2.0 - would that be too much?

thanks!

150lb/ft max according to Hewland, using 'M' gears.

The 2.0 takes a different input shaft than the 1600 kent.

Regards,
Dan

[Rick Kirchner]

If it had a VW in it it might have MK 5 gears. If so, you can do a lot more. Datsun engines were popular in those cars back in the day, as were the rotaries.

An 1800 VW might give good power, easy maintenance, and decent longevity.

[Brett Lane]

I think you can convert MK9 to a MK5 simply by using a MK5 layshaft and gears... It's been a while.

It'll handle more power, but not sure how much.

[Brian]

Mk5 ugrade is just the layshaft and gears, I've had two of them (still have one, actually) then you are good up to Atlantic power. It's torque you worry about, rather than HP, more or less. I'd look at what your goals are with the car. It's not going to be competitive in SCCA type racing against current cars, and it sounds like your aim is towards enjoying the car in a vintage setting. That's my cup of tea as well, and I always just did things that made sense to me, and raced the guy in front of me on the track rather than worrying about ultimate speed. I have a BSR (1972 NTM MK 4) with BMW 2 litre SOHC, and it's a great motor, cheap and easy to build up to about 160 hp. I have maybe $3K in mine (pistons, rods, cam, carbs, everything else is stock or I made it myself). Pinto, Ford 1600 are good choices but have cast cranks and not spectacular rods for high RPM work, but the Pinto in particular is well served by the circle track Mini-stock crowd, cranks, pistons, rods are highly available (I have a set of forged rods and pistons here that we took out of an engine that is going in a S2000). Datsun, VW have excellent power potential and are historically valid, but can cost a lot to make the power that they used to. The RF-83 is not a big engine compartment, but it came as a FF2000 so a Pinto would fit.

[Scott Nevin]

Thank you all for your insight. Please bear with me as I have a lot of catching up to do on the knowledge front. The gearbox has, what i assume to be, a vw adapter. I haven't disassembled it yet to check what's in it. I believe the Mk9 shaft is 1"od and the Mk5 is 1.125" od so once i clear some room in the shop we shall see. I was advised by a friend who's very expert in all things formula that this car might be best used as a parts car so for it to be described as a "cool car, great project" is reassuring to me. When a Pinto engine is referred to is that the kent or the ohc engine? Can the Mk9, with Mk5 upgraded gears/layshaft, input shaft be changed to fit a 2.0 sohc? Who / where would be a good resource for understanding more about a 1.8 VW? Cheers! (race cars are fun)

[DanW]

When a Pinto engine is referred to is that the kent or the ohc engine? Can the Mk9, with Mk5 upgraded gears/layshaft, input shaft be changed to fit a 2.0 sohc? Who / where would be a good resource for understanding more about a 1.8 VW? Cheers! (race cars are fun)

The 2000 SOHC motor is a German Ford origin. We call them Pinto motors. Most early Ford Pintos and Capris were sold with this engine as an option.

The Kent is the 1600 cc pushrod motor that came from Ford of England, first in the Cortina, then later in '73 the "uprated" Kent was sold as a service engine to be massaged for Formula Ford. They were also sold as the "base" engine in the '71 to '73 Ford Pinto. The heads used in the uprated Kents were never used in any cars sold in the US. These engines were also used in the Bobcat skid steer loaders and Clark forklifts.

Here is a link to all things "Kent"
http://www.thekentlives.com/index.ph...ngine/history/

[Rick Kirchner]

I'd guess that a far cheaper option than replacing the layshaft would be to find a clutch disk with the appropriate spline and bore the crankshaft and flywheel for a bushing/bearing that fits the layshaft you have.

[Brian]

You don't replace the layshaft except for the MK 5 upgrade, to swap between engines and clutches, you just replace the input shaft and they are pretty cheap. They are also soft and easy to machine if you need to tweak the length or the OD of the pilot bearing section or whatever.

Brian

[eronshausen]

Hi Scott,

I also have a converted 83 VD FF (mine has been converted to a GSXR). Before I got this car, I ran a Pinto in IT. I built quite a few Pinto motors. While they are rock solid, I don't believe you can get the necessary HP from them to be even remotely competitive in P2. Even with the restrictors on the motorcycle motors, a stock gsxr will put out @ 160 hp. You'd be hard pressed to get the Pinto motor up to 140 hp (and stay reliable). The new P2 rules would favor the Mazda motors (go figure). Best of luck on your project. Let us know how it turns out.

Ed

[BRONCO]

Hi Scott
If you would like I have a couple of quad 4 Olds engines that were in an S2 I had. You are welcome to come and get one at NC if you would like. I live in Simpsonville.
Drop me a PM
Tony


[/QUOTE]

[Scott Nevin]

I have a 2.0 FC engine on it's way. I've decided to go "yestertech" (I guess I'm tossing the idea of being competitive out the window). Thanks to Kip I may have an adapter lined up. As car had VW I'll be fab'g motor mount(s) so if anyone has pics of a 2.0 FC early '82 or '83 VD mount they can share I'd be obliged. I believe a 4 pronged spider mount up front is what's needed. Are side mounts required as gearbox is stressed member? I'm fab'g a dolly at moment to get car in shop asap. I did receive the log book from Mr Habisreutinger. A very good chap ! The last event it ran was '90 Runoffs. I also spoke with P Creighton who obtained the car for Mr Habisreutinger from a Tom Mitchell in TX. Phil mentioned it could've been one of Bob Schader's Super Vee cars - would anyone know how to figure that one out (the rear uprights are stamped USA 83)? Like a puzzle - one piece at a time.

Tony, Kip - pm's to you

[teamsfsd]

Anyone know where I could find McCann Body Work?
Thanks