Painting on a Budget

[PaulT]

So now that the weather is getting nice here, I've got to start doing some body repairs. Is it really possible to get a halfway decent finish on a tight budget? What sort of equipment would I need, spray gun, compressor and obviously paint. Is rattle can an option, though I'm concerned about long term color availability with this option? I see HVLP guns for cheap, but don't they need a large compressor and if so how large is large?

Any thoughts, experiences are welcome.
Paul

[budawe]

Find a local painter at a bodyshop who wants to moonlight. With the complexity and cost of modern paint combined with the cost of decent equipment to do it right, you'll be ahead. Do the prep yourself and save

[syrarch04]

These guys can paint match any manufacturer code and offer spray cans for cheap. Supposedly the special spray head does a nice job. I have some on order right now, but no experience with them yet.

http://www.automotivetouchup.com/

[Bob Wright]

Yes, I think you can. The cheap HVLP guns actually work quite well and only need a light duty compressor. (a good orbital sander is a must for body repair and that needs a lot of air volume, however) I use a Sherwin Williams base/clearcoat system instead of single coat that allows me to hide some mistakes once in a while. I got a paint sales rep at my local auto parts store to basically teach me how to do it, but you could also spend some time at a local body shop and learn as well. Using my way, the clearcoat needs to have a quality epoxy hardner and that's the trick. Practice and getting the right reducer for the temperature is a key.

And in the end....its a race car, not a show car and from 50 feet ant 50 mph it'll look just fine.

[swiftdrivr]

If you paint it yourself, get a good respirator / mask with filters and a tight fit and protect your lungs.==Jim

[Larry]

I painted my Harley outside using an HVLP gun. We just waited for a warm, calm day, and the results were superb! The modern paints are MUCH easier to use than the old enamels.

I know several people who spend a lot of money getting their cars painted professionally. Their cars look great, but the paint doesn't make them faster. I don't have a large racing budget, and I'd rather spend my scarce money on tires or practice days.

As previously stated, it is a race car. It's going to get dinged. If not dinged on the track, it will get dinged in the trailer or when you drop a wrench, so don't sweat the small stuff! It will look just fine from a couple feet, and at 50' and 50 mph, it will look flawless.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Sean Maisey]

I remember talking to DSR racer Jay Lovett at the Runoffs a few years back. He was repairing his very expensively professionally painted bodywork after an incident. He said something like:

"Next time I am just going to the Home Depot and picking out a color of Krylon that I like. That way I can just spray over the field repairs and not feel so bad about it"...

That being said. I resprayed my own bodywork pieces as I finished up the car this winter. It turned out plenty nice for a race car... (photo from F1600 Series Web Site)

Sean

[Larry]

You're right-on, Sean! Probably the smartest thing a guy could do is to use Krylon that has a matching shade of duct tape! A few years ago I wondered about whether Krylon would hold up, so I painted a spare nose and let it sit outside through the winter. It held up beautifully!

I figure it would take about 30 cans to do a car completely. What's your estimate?

Larry

[Sean Maisey]

Larry,

Just to be clear. I used standard 2 part auto paint and a spray gun to do the altered panels on my car, so I have no idea on the number of 'rattle cans' needed to do a whole car.

BUT, if I was starting from scratch, i would pick a spray can color (that matched a generally available race tape) as you state. I would still probably still by auto paint that matched and use the spray gun for the big pieces though. It is just more efficient and consistent.

Sean

[john f]

Most any decent paint supply house can mix and fill "rattle cans" for you. When I paint a car, I get a couple of cans filled at the same time I get the paint so I have matching "color in a can" for future fixes.

john f

[Larry]

My paint supply store will load rattle cans with whatever color I want, but they get about $20 per can. I used the typical base-coat/clear coat on my Titan, and used the rattle cans as touch-up. Frankly, I think an all-Krylon job would come out just as well. At 30 cans, it probably wouldn't be any more expensive than decent 2-part paint.

Larry

[john f]

My paint supply store will load rattle cans with whatever color I want, but they get about $20 per can. I used the typical base-coat/clear coat on my Titan, and used the rattle cans as touch-up. Frankly, I think an all-Krylon job would come out just as well. At 30 cans, it probably wouldn't be any more expensive than decent 2-part paint.

Larry

john f

[Beartrax]

You could shoot the car in a factory color using the 2 part paint process, then buy the Dupli-color rattle can that matches for $6-$7/can for touch ups.

[Beartrax]

That being said. I resprayed my own bodywork pieces as I finished up the car this winter. It turned out plenty nice for a race car... (photo from F1600 Series Web Site)

I saw that pic this weekend, but just noticed the John Deere decal today - That's great!

[RussMcB]

If you take the rattle can approach, can you then rattle-can clear on top to make it look better (more shiney)?

[Brian]

I budget around $200 for supplies to paint a formula car in two colours. That's a can of bondo, sandpaper, some high-build primer with catalyst, reducer, and two colours plus activator. I use a HVLP gun now, and my regular compressor, and a good filter/water separator.

Brian

[cbruce644]

I opted for the HVLP route as well. Bought a $90 3 gun package from TCP http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutobodyDepot/ which included poly-primer tip,eurothane primer tip, color & clearcoat tips. Since I don't have a compressor, I rigged up my 2 scuba tanks. They fill with clean, dry,filtered air which solves the moisture issue when spraying. (2) 130 cubic ft air tanks @ only $2/fill gave me about 20 minutes of uninterrupted spraying time which was plenty of time to do base coat/clear coat on a formula car. After the gun purchase, $200 seems about the right price to repair & repaint. Next winter I plan on getting a little more creative with a paint scheme.

Bruce
FM 92

[PaulT]

Those of you painting at home, what size compressor are you using?

Paul

[cbruce644]

The key with spraying is the cfm. Off the top of my head, it seems the color/clear was 10-12 cfm & sl.more for the poly-primer/primer. Unless you have a higher hp compressor w/larger higher pressure holding tank, I think it could be a problem if your having to wait for it to cyle up to adequate pressure. Since I sprayed using the scuba tank, I'll defer to those who use the compressor.

Bruce

[sflaten]

Everyone has given good advise, but here is another item to think about.

If you use a single stage paint, it is just paint and reducer. It can be mixed in advance and goes on just fine. The rest can be held in a container till you need more. Essentially, it DRIES.

The two stage stuff is more expensive, uses a hardener and CURES. If you mix up a batch and do not use it all, it will be wasted and will harden. It is more resistant to chemicals with the harder clear coar.

The two stage material is also more hazardous to your health. The hardeners in the material are not filtered out by your typical respirator mask. You should be using a fresh air system that brings in outside air. These hardeners build up in your system and can make you very sick if you ingest enough.

One last item. If you are in some states, you can not get hold of the stuff with lots of reducer due to EPA requirements, and state laws. Califorinia is one in particular.

[wannabe]

For a 3 color design, go to local quick sign company and pick some alternative decal colors that match or blend with a bright krylon color and duck tape. Decide on your base color (I chose white) then get your decal color or duck tape matched at your favorite paint store thats open on the weekends. ( Use a single stage color...do not use clear coat...pain in the ass to repair).Decide on your paint scheme by generally following the body lines of your car. Paint your base color 1st and let dry according to instructions on can. Tape off where you dont want your second color to go and spray it. Let dry according to instructions on can. Tape off where you don't want your third color to go and spray that. (Use fine line tape to establish your lines). After dry you can wet sand the whole car with 1500 paper and buff with 3m's Perfectit. That will be as good as it gets on a race car with easy maintenance. I then had 3 color decals made for my numbers. I used the cheap Dupont paint, a harbor freight paint gun and an old 4hp compressor. You'll need a 4hp to sand but only a 3 to paint with a gravity gun. Let it dry in the hot sun for a couple of weeks before decaling. Clean the rubber marks off with mineral spirits after each race and wax with Ice before each race. Use your tape on all the edges that get abused. Repairing your first mishap with Krylon is a quick and simple repair. You can refinish the panel in the winter months when you have more time....Good luck!!!!

[Rick Kirchner]

if you are in California you buy your paint in Reno, Vegas, or Yuma.......

After ten years of using that $#!tty acetone and methanol junk now sold as brake cleaner I discovered the Lake Havasu, AZ, NAPA, where one can buy real, chlorinated, effective brake cleaner!

[tjcezar]

whether you spray can it or go the hvlp route you will probably have a lot of work into it so I would go the hvlp route with a good quality paint as this will give you better results, will probably be a little cheaper, and you wont have to deal with your index finger cramping for a week after you spray can it.

[EACIII]

Remember, spraying the top coat on is the party after all the prep work. That is what really makes a paint job.

Ed

[brownslane]

For a 3 color design, go to local quick sign company and pick some alternative decal colors that match or blend with a bright krylon color and duck tape. Decide on your base color (I chose white) then get your decal color or duck tape matched at your favorite paint store thats open on the weekends. ( Use a single stage color...do not use clear coat...pain in the ass to repair).Decide on your paint scheme by generally following the body lines of your car. Paint your base color 1st and let dry according to instructions on can. Tape off where you dont want your second color to go and spray it. Let dry according to instructions on can. Tape off where you don't want your third color to go and spray that. (Use fine line tape to establish your lines). After dry you can wet sand the whole car with 1500 paper and buff with 3m's Perfectit. That will be as good as it gets on a race car with easy maintenance. I then had 3 color decals made for my numbers. I used the cheap Dupont paint, a harbor freight paint gun and an old 4hp compressor. You'll need a 4hp to sand but only a 3 to paint with a gravity gun. Let it dry in the hot sun for a couple of weeks before decaling. Clean the rubber marks off with mineral spirits after each race and wax with Ice before each race. Use your tape on all the edges that get abused. Repairing your first mishap with Krylon is a quick and simple repair. You can refinish the panel in the winter months when you have more time....Good luck!!!!

Great description, wannabe! As well, I suggest that you "draw" the masking tape and de-grease the bodywork before painting.

All I do to remove any grease/wax from the bodywork is to wet sand with 400 grit paper using a wet mix of some dish soap and warm (hot as you can stand) water. The hot water with dish soap will strip the wax and grease and keep the water-paper from cloggin up. Also does a GREAT job on getting your hands super clean! That'll help with the paint sticking to the body. Now to keep the masking tape from removing previous painted areas, here's what to do. Before you apply the masking tape, you "draw" the tape between your fingers so that the sticky part of the tape is dreawn against your skin. This will remove enough of the grippiness of the tape to ensure that it doesn't pull off the paint!

I am a firm believer in rattle-can painting. It allows the car to be easily (and quickly!) repaired at the track. I usually paint my cars each winter in the shop with the "proper" technique in a "plastic bag" paint booth I make up by building a room out of two-by-fours and plastic sheeting. I build the room, tape a couple of furnace air filters on the top (cut a couple of holes in the plastic) and I have a cheap "squirrel cage" fan I mount on the floor to create a down draft booth....costs about $40 each time I build it.

But, I also make sure that the colors I choose have "rattle can" matches available. And I always buy half a dozen rattle cans immediately when I make my choices to guard against the cans being out of stock when I need them.

[snettleship]

After 4 years running in FF I have a lot of chips in the front of the helmet. I decided it would be best to just spray over the front rather than 30 or so touch ups. I bought from http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spr...t_matched.aspx The color is definitely much flatter that the original "shine". I've seen multiple instructions from here (clear coat, rubbing compound, etc...). I'm not expecting an exact match but something closer than I have. I believe I have the right color. Advice?

[Hardingfv32]

[QUOTE=sflaten;293238]The two stage material is also more hazardous to your health. The hardeners in the material are not filtered out by your typical respirator mask. You should be using a fresh air system that brings in outside air. /QUOTE]

This not true. The standard respirator mask works fine. This issue is poor fit and leakage. The paint has on odor so you can not tell where you stand. A fresh air system is the industries fail safe.

In California you solve reducer limitations with off label mixtures/combinations.

Slow drying times is the main issue with the new paints... say
10-30 minutes to surface harden. It takes a perfect day if not using a spray booth.

Brian

[DaveW]

The two stage material is also more hazardous to your health. The hardeners in the material are not filtered out by your typical respirator mask. You should be using a fresh air system that brings in outside air.

This not true. The standard respirator mask works fine. This issue is poor fit and leakage. The paint has on odor so you can not tell where you stand. A fresh air system is the industries fail safe.

In California you solve reducer limitations with off label mixtures/combinations.

Slow drying times is the main issue with the new paints... say
10-30 minutes to surface harden. It takes a perfect day if not using a spray booth.

Brian

IIRC, the respirator mask will only work to filter out vapors from solvents, etc., if you have an activated charcoal filter included in the filter medium of the mask. A standard particle filter will not do that. As Brian says, if you can smell the solvent, you need to fix something to get rid of that.