But why would people who are perfectly happy with the other than SCCA groups they run with put up with the perceived lower value of SCCA races just to get to be field fillers at the Runoffs?
These folks chose to race with different organizations because they felt that there was a better bang for the buck... and they are going to come to SCCA races so they can be field fillers at the Runoffs?. This guy who has not left SCCA would not go to the Runoffs to be a field filler.
OK these are the accomodations for far ....................Originally Posted by Wren
Last edited by Swift17; 01.29.14 at 4:55 AM.
I wonder the same thing. How will East Coast regular season participation change? Are people going to participate more often because they don't need to budget for the RunOffs or are they going to lose interest since they don't plan to go to the RunOffs?
80% of the folks who go now are field fillers. Look at the lap time disparity and delta to winner at checkered. They are going to be part of the experience, not because they feel they have a legitimate chance of a podium, much less a gold.
Gee, that's how most of us on the West Coast Feel!
QUOTE=ARizer;395928]They need to keep it somewhere in the middle of the US because I can tell you if the runoffs goes to the west coast I'm not going and I know a lot of other people that won't go ether because of the cost of travel allown would be to much and not to mention the time off from jobs that would be needed to get there race and then come back.[/QUOTE]
Can you imagine the participation at the ARRC the year of the West Coast Runoffs?
I for one would absolutely try to qualify and race at the runoffs if it were on the West Coast. Like someone else said, although I have about 0% probability of winning or finishing on the podium, I'd go for the experience of racing at the biggest amateur event in North America. I will absolutely not tow 45 hours each way to do it, but if its closer, why not?
It's exactly the reverse of the actual East Coast situation. I'm sure many of you wouldn't tow to California to fight for 20th place, but I think a lot of those would be replaced with West Coasters who currently feel the same way.
I've fully enjoyed being spoiled rotten and having the Runoffs at my home track a mere 5 minutes from my race shop for the last 4 years and for the upcoming 50th anniversary race. I certainly will miss this wherever they move in 2014. If an annual rotation gives every racer in SCCA the chance to experience a "home track" Runoffs this would probably be the most fair thing to do. I know how special it's been for me to have won 2 National Championships at home, others should get the chance to have this experience.
With SCCA stating that an annual rotation would likely include a West coast race every 3 or 4 years a Runoffs at Laguna Seca is inevitable because it's really the only "bucket list" track in that part of the country that would entice racers from the Midwest/East to make that long of a trip. Whether that's in 2014 or beyond is speculation until I see an official press release. While I would love to race their one day, I will be in the same boat as most of the budget racers from the Midwest or East coast who will find it nearly impossible to afford both from a cost and time off work basis. The cost numbers Reid laid out are hard to swallow for many an SCCA racer.
There have been many comments in this thread that the SCCA is largely a Midwest & East based organization. The club doesn't make participation or membership figures available for public view in a form that's easy to view. So, out of my own curiosity I put together a spread sheet looking at just the Runoffs participation from 2012 to see where the racers were traveling from. I collected this data from the official 2012 Runoffs final results sheets and thought I'd share it here.
Total Entries in 2012: 493
Top 10 States in Entries:
1. Illinois = 47
2. Wisconsin = 43
2. California = 43
4. Ohio = 35
5. Florida = 34
6. Michigan = 32
7. Texas = 30
8. Colorado = 27
9. Pennsylvania = 21
10. Kansas = 19
Participation by Division:
Central = 99
Great Lakes = 81
Southeast = 78
Pacific (combo of Northern/Southern) = 58
Northeast = 54
Midwest = 43
Rocky Mountain = 37
Southwest = 31
Canada = 11
No surprise that Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan account for the bulk of entries given the location of the Runoffs and the historical strength of participation from the Cen-Div / Great Lakes regions. What did surprise me was the entry numbers from California & Colorado given the length of the tow. The breakdown by division gave me another surprise in the lack of participation from the Northeast. I joined the two Pacific divisions together for the purposes of these numbers as they both share the state of California. This combined Pacific division topped the Northeast despite having to travel twice the distance.
In analyzing these numbers it's not surprising that SCCA is willing to take the risk of a West Coast Runoffs in the next 3 to 4 years. Overall membership numbers might be stronger on the East coast than the West coast, but based on actual attendance at the Runoffs you'd never know.
Michael Mueller
2011 & 2012 SCCA Formula 500 National Champion
A fine post, Michael...thank you!
And now for my CSB... (cool story, bro)
We entered West Coast Nationals for several years back in the late 90's and early 00's as cheap practice for Rennie's budding pro-Atlantic career, never giving a thought to the Runoffs. Sure, we knew of them, but were not focused on them at all. They were just something that happened far, far away.
Then one day in the fall of 2001 we tuned in to watch the FA race on Speed Channel, and WHOA!, there was our SFR friend Keith Lively ON THE FREAKKIN POLE for the FA race. We had raced Keith many times over the years and had at least a 50-50 win ratio over him. To this day I recall us deciding ON THE SPOT that next year we were going to the Runoffs.
Fast forward to 2002 and Rennie qualified 4th and finished 3rd...one spot ahead of Keith. The following year we went back again...having learned A LOT from our first try...and Rennie brought home the Gold and the President's Cup (awarded to the outstanding Runoffs victor since the days of Dwight "I like Ike" Eisenhower).
So here's the moral of the story: build it and they will come. By which I mean, hold the Runoffs out West every 3rd or 4th year and the Club will build a following of Runoffs racers out here that will travel back east to attend the Runoffs, where ever they may be held.
Yeah, sure, we have a bunch of racers at the Runoff each year. Still, there are lots of racers out here for whom the Runoffs is some distant event that doesn't really fit into their world view. Some of them are potential winners, but the Club will never attract them unless they dangle some bait for them once in a while.
Thanks again for your post. /CSB
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
I find it interesting how many people from the eastern side of the country would only consider coming to the west coast to run at Laguna Seca. I was talking to a friend who has raced since the 60's, and of the three SF region tracks, Thunderhill, Sears Point and Laguna, we both ranked Laguna as number three. Since he had raced at nearly every track in the country, I asked him what his favorite track was, he said it was probably a tie between Sears Point and Mosport.
Missing the point
The Runoffs are NOT for the mid-packers and back markers. When a racer brings his car to the track in an 18 wheeler or towed behind a $350K Monaco motorhome, the cost of attending the Runoffs becomes moot.
Besides, Laguna Seca has more to offer than just the race track. It is a true destination area. Tourists come to the Monterey Peninsula for all the other attractions and activities and could care less that there is a world class race track there.
“Monterey offers a host of historic attractions from Cannery Row to the famed Monterey Aquarium. This incredible sliver of oceanfront offers an amazing bounty of things to do, with marine, floral and vine-fresh delights to savor. Charming towns, world-class golf courses and idyllic inns lie at the hem of the glittering Pacific. Whether you're looking for calm or noisy beachside fun, the Monterey Peninsula has it in buckets.”
Carmel Valley (5 miles from track) has great dining & wine tasting.
Golf: Laguna Seca Golf Club is 3 miles down hyw 68 and 15 minutes away is Pebble Beach with its world class courses.
List of 114 activities on Monterey Peninsula:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...alifornia.html
Average weather:
Sept Hi 67°F Low 52°F Precip 0 in
Oct 65°F 48°F 1 in
Note the precipitation levels. You will be able to save a grand by not buying rain tires!
Use that grand you saved on rains to take your gal to the Bernardus Lodge (Carmel Valley) for a spa day or wine tasting: http://www.bernardus.com/
Great post, thank you!
Sure they are. Enforce the 107 or 110% rule, whatever it is and everybodyelse runs.
102% is mid-pack if you ask me.
In probably 100 events I have raced in the rain twice and once was at Laguna, the other at Las Vegas...go figure. The only way you beat the weather in that part of the country is to race in San Diego....and no thanks to Holtville.
I'd agree. The FE group at the Sprints had less than a 5% spread, and the slowest car had mechanical issues and only ran one of the qualifying sessions. I doubt 107% would cull very many from the starting grid.....Sure they are. Enforce the 107 or 110% rule, whatever it is and everybodyelse runs.
102% is mid-pack if you ask me.
Marshall Mauney
Milwaukee Region
If you don't allow mid-packers and back-markers to enter you'll get somewhere less than 200 entrants at the Run-Offs.
Looking at 2012 results...Almost 1/3 of the races had 2nd place more than 10 seconds behind the leader. Almost 2/3's of the field failed to finish on the lead lap.
Maybe there should only be 200 entrants and Laguna. Quality over quantity.
Mis-understood
If you don't allow mid-packers and back-markers to enter you'll get somewhere less than 200 entrants at the Run-Offs.
Looking at 2012 results...Almost 1/3 of the races had 2nd place more than 10 seconds behind the leader. Almost 2/3's of the field failed to finish on the lead lap.
Maybe there should only be 200 entrants and Laguna. Quality over quantity.
Hey guys, you are mis-understanding my digital jest/humor because you cannot see my facial expressions. I'm a mid pack kind of guy who went to the Runoffs in '03 as part of my bucket list of things I wanted to do. Been there, done that sort of thing. Have not been since.
I think the mid and back parts make these events financially viable and therefore they are of critical importance (see Daryl's comment above). I think the "top 200" will travel to where ever the event is held. The rest will attend once or twice just to be a part of the experience.
I think moving the event around the country will be great for all of us fillers that just want to experience the Runoffs.
And, while NOT listed above, and of course not to be missed, is the early breakfast extravaganza with the management of Inter-City Manufacturing in Sand City, CA.
....
And, while NOT listed above, and of course not to be missed, is the early breakfast extravaganza with the management of Inter-City Manufacturing in Sand City, CA.
....
I have totally missed that-I'll have to look it up
EJ, I thought that was a secret breakfast! Don't go making it public knowledge or we'll have all the riff raff wanting in for blueberry pancakes...And, while NOT listed above, and of course not to be missed, is the early breakfast extravaganza with the management of Inter-City Manufacturing in Sand City, CA.
....
Ethan Shippert
http://shippertracingservices.com
https://www.norwestff.com
"l'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!"
have you tried the Breakfast Club?
One of our favorites is the Breakfast Club in Seaside (about 15 mins from track):
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-B...b/272508890568
The staff is always cheerful. Sometimes we even forget to eat breakfast.
Last edited by Dave SanF 50; 07.10.13 at 3:40 PM. Reason: misspelled Seaside
Damn .............
I blew it... sorry !!!
Hey Doug ... please delete -- errr modify as seen Fit (.... both puns intended)
I did say somewhere in the MIDDLE of the US didn't I. I don't want to exclude the West Coast from anything I'm just trying to be fair for both the East & West coast. I'm not saying to just put it at the East Coast. For saying the runoffs should be at Laguna Seca is like me saying the runoffs should be at Summit Point because its really close to me. I wouldn't do the that to the West Coast guys. I think it should be right in the MIDDLE.
There is NO middle
The biggest complaint about the Runoffs being held at Heartland Park (practically the middle) was the track.
Where else in the middle can host a event like the Runoffs?
-Meg
i am sure some gnome at google could develop an algorithim to find the geo/demo-graphic solution
Here you go.. geographic and population 'centers' of the USA.
http://www.census.gov/geo/reference/...raphic2010.pdf
Heartland Park isn't that far off.
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
I already did that...about 5 years ago...probably while I was on the CRB. IIRC, the distance listed were calculated as the average driving distance for each Runoffs qualifier from the other Divisions in (IIRC) 2008. Drivers from the same Division the track is located in are ignored. Indy has the lowest mean travel distance based on that...HPT next lowest tow distance, and so on.
Last edited by Stan Clayton; 12.29.16 at 3:14 PM.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Wouldn't it be nice if....
Does anyone know if its possible to ship a tow vehicle and trailer via train across the country?
no need to when you have a google self driving vehicle.........................i wonder how it fuels itself?
How about Texas?
Texas seems a good compromise (distance wise) for most everyone......and you could move the runoffs to October (or maybe even November)......allowing more time for racing prior to the runoffs.
Surely there is a track in Texas which has the facilities to host the runoffs.....besides COTA, which has been discussed.
In my opinion.....if the runoffs is to remain a high profile event, it needs to stay at the same facility.....not move around. It takes years to build a following.....especially with the press. Moving it around hurts that.
Jerry
Less talk about Kansas and Texas more talk about Laguna Seca (the topic of this thread), please.
2014 Runoffs at Laguna Seca
I've never shipped one by train, but it is pretty common at work for us to ship 24'-30' bumper pull trailers as LTL shipments. We just forklift them onto a flatbed trailer on both ends. Cross country usually runs about $3k one way.
Crickets . . .
Only 2 1/2 hours until the speedcasttv.com official announcement ! Let the East coast start crying now
JR
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! "
You had it right Jeff. laguna for 2014!!!!!
Hybels
Runoffs!
2014: Laguna Seca
2015: Daytona
2016: Mid-Ohio
Maybe only crying for one year. :-)Only 2 1/2 hours until the speedcasttv.com official announcement ! Let the East coast start crying now
2014 - Mazda Raceway, Laguna Seca
2015 - Daytona
2016 - Mid Ohio.
Racer Russ
Palm Coast, FL
Runoffs at Laguna Seca 2014
See I told you that was where the Runoffs would be. What a guess!
It's bad enough we crown national champions based on the outcome of a single race. From what I understand about full course cautions at Laguna, now we can do it in one lap!
Well they could not have picked more opposite tracks than daytona and mid-ohio...
I think rotating the runoffs is a good idea. I am interested to see the turnout at Laguna Seca. I think for the first year it will have a good turnout as people have an excuse to travel to a great race track (think first race at COTA). Not sure how well subsequent years would go if it was held there again though.
Daytona I just don't get, doesn't seem like a good place to have the runoffs both geographically and track layout wise.
Moving Runoffs
Nope it's going to move. Staying in one place has lots of disadvantages. It tends to make the event a hostage to the track and to some extent the supporting regions(s), there is a marked tendency to tune all competitive adjustments to that one track, that one race, it puts everybody but the locals on a longer tow schedule, that expense and pain should be shared. The BoD has basically said it will move every year and every 3-4 years swing out West.
The plan is to have a rolling 3 year calendar, so in 14 we'll announce 17. Drivers can then plan for the track or longer/shorter tows they want based on the Runoffs they want to shoot for. Just so folks know, "West" is defined as SLC west, "East" as Mid-O east and between is the "Middle" to include tracks like Indy, COTA. We want to hit the iconic and driver preferred tracks first couple of rotation rounds. VIR, Sears could be serious contenders on the West and East coast respectively in the future as could COTA (or Indy if there was an opportunity).
On a side note, this came together as a target of opportunity. MRLS had a hole in their 2014 schedule due to the Gran Am/ALMS merger and we wanted a West Coast track. MRLS worked hard with SCCA and put together a full week of sound variances which is very very difficult to do. A lot of effort on the part of MRLS, SCCA National staff, your own BoD directors, and SF Region to pull this off.
To borrow a phrase, this is not your father's SCCA!
Here's to a successful change in the Runoffs model and a great swing out west!
Todd Butler
Area 13 NorPac Director
Glad to see the SCCA is rotating the RunOffs!
Of course there will always be nay-sayers and people are going to prefer one-track over another....however, given enough time it will only help participation numbers and quality of racing throughout the Country. Not just region x or region Y.
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