June Sprints

[kflyer]

Congrats to Darryl Wills on a well deserved win! Peterson second and Dale Vandenbush (sp?) third. The weather and racing was great for the entire weekend.

Unfortunately, we were taken out by an overly agressive FE early on and didn't get the credit I needed to help qualifyfor the Runoff's. I still had fun and really enjoy running the FM! ( I will post the FE wreck video here tonite. It's pretty cool!)

-Kevin

[TrackBrat]

Look forward to seeing that footage, I wonder if you can see me bailing out of the flag station when it all happened. Your race group was interesting, and kept us very busy at turn 8.

[kflyer]

Below is the video of my short run at the Sprints. The crash happened after the restart from a full coarse yellow. Basically a bunch of FC's and FE's on my ass and spins everywhere on the track. Before the wreck I did point the blue FE by and conceded the line into and out of turn 7. The orange car... You decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N18p...ature=youtu.be

[TrackBrat]

For the record from the blue flag station I never saw a car on the grass till the contact happened. I did see a cluster of cars coming at me, then saw some contact made and cars coming right at me.

Thanks for posting it. I am glad we were able to give you a point and get you out of the way. There were several cars, the atlantics in particular that were coming way to fast through our incident area. Having you continue on your way made my job of dealing with the situation a tad easier since I didn't have to worry about you being in harms way.

Also to let you know your car got a lot of us talking about theme of your car and got thumbs up from many of them.

[Marshall Mauney]

There were several cars, the atlantics in particular that were coming way to fast through our incident area.

I witnessed a number of PUY from that race (and I think we have the video). None of it made any difference to a specific race, but there was some seriously poor judgement on display.

[kflyer]

For the record from the blue flag station I never saw a car on the grass till the contact happened. I did see a cluster of cars coming at me, then saw some contact made and cars coming right at me.

Thanks for posting it. I am glad we were able to give you a point and get you out of the way. There were several cars, the atlantics in particular that were coming way to fast through our incident area. Having you continue on your way made my job of dealing with the situation a tad easier since I didn't have to worry about you being in harms way.

Also to let you know your car got a lot of us talking about theme of your car and got thumbs up from many of them.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm kinda regretting posting it now though. The theme on the car is a requirement for the Autobahn race series I participate in. There are about 20 of us with F1 schemes.

[JRMarchand]

that look violent, not cool. did the corner on T5 show you a blue/yellow passing flag, the video starts on T6 and that corner does not wave a flag letting you know more leaders are coming. Must've been a very confusing situation that you shouldn't have been in on the first place. the June Sprints could've waited another year while you gain more experience and get up to speed. Those are my kind words. Doing a handful of member races at autobahn series does not warrant experience for top flight competition or a waiver to compete at the June Sprints.

[dalz]

Irregardless of the argument about anyone's "required experience level", you didn't do a thing wrong Kevin. Maybe--MAYBE--a more seasoned driver might have saw the 2nd pass in time to avoid contact, but you were in an absolutely no-win position. This is exactly the same spot I was put into during my first USAC Midget race, with similar results. Now THAT was definitely a "dodgy credentials" situation. At least you weren't waiting for the crowd to start throwing stuff at you.

I know the FE and FC guys wanted the coveted first split starting spot behind the Atlantics, and the FM lobby won out. It probably would've been the same crash no matter what class was roaring up on the other after the FCY. With the increase in doorslammer National classes, we better figure out how these 4 OW classes will get along together, as this is as sparse as the race groups will ever get again.

[oppermann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4E-c...r#action=share


As you can see from the video, the formula Mazda saw us behind him, signalled me to pass left and moved to the right side of the road. There was no hesitation in his path and no idication that he was going to drive down the center of the straight. As you can see on my video there is no room to pass on the right side of the Mazda. Denny tried anyway! The rest is deja vu x3 (for me at least).


Now there is only one video left to see! What are the chances it will be posted? (its probably a "corrupt file").


Denny do you know a good body guy?-I have a lot of fiberglass that needs mending and painting.

[Marshall Mauney]

As you can see from the video, the formula Mazda saw us behind him, signalled me to pass left and moved to the right side of the road. There was no hesitation in his path and no idication that he was going to drive down the center of the straight.

I'm not so sure that the last part is clear. The FM was off-line going into T7 and WAY slow. He wasn't holding the proper (traditional, at least) racing line through that corner to begin with; he never went left to the turn-in point for T7, so I wouldn't know what to expect at T8. I'm not sure where else Denny was supposed to go, nor am I sure why the FM thought it was OK to drift right, given the distance remaining to T8. Yes, he pointed you by, but that doesn't mean he should alter his line - in fact it should be the opposite, particularly in a case like this in a pack of faster cars. If he had been watching his mirrors, he would have known that he needed to hold to the center while cars went past. In fact, I would have expected to see a jerk left when Denny's nose comes into the field of view - where was he looking?

All that said, I can see why you're frustrated - looks to me from the FM video as if you didn't do anything wrong, but just got caught up in a racing incident between cars moving very different speeds.

I'll ask this, though - how did FM have three cars that all qualified tightly-bunched at 11 seconds off the pole time? This wasn't just one car with a mechanical problem.....???? Were these drivers all new to RA?

Put another way, when we look at split starts like this, should we perhaps be deciding based on the group with the slowest qualifiers instead of the fastest?

[oppermann]

Marshall this is rediculous and i expected a much more intellegent response from you. "Where else is Denny supposed to go"?? How about lift of the throttle and follow me past. Or go to the inside of me going into 8. if you watch my video you will notice that i lifted going into 7 rather than risking crashing everyone out by trying to go around the outside of the FM IN 7. How can you rationalize his actions. If you are the passing car it is your responsibility to make sure it is done safely. Thats what i did!! You cannot expect people to drive in their mirrors. We are not driving to Walmart. If this is truely how you feel i will make a mental note that if i get a run on you ever coming out of 6 and get my front wheels next to your rear wheels you will not move right to left to set up for 7. If you do thats Ok it will be your fault and you will go for the ride of your life. Have fun with that.

Just wait Denny has taken me out 3 times, taken out keith at blackhawk i'm sure it won't be long before you get your turn.

[kflyer]

I'm not so sure that the last part is clear. The FM was off-line going into T7 and WAY slow. He wasn't holding the proper (traditional, at least) racing line through that corner to begin with; he never went left to the turn-in point for T7, so I wouldn't know what to expect at T8. I'm not sure where else Denny was supposed to go, nor am I sure why the FM thought it was OK to drift right, given the distance remaining to T8.

I was off line and slowed because an FC got the inside line on T6 as the red FC ahead of me just spun in T6 as I crested the hill and I was unsure if he would remain stopped or move. When I checked my left mirror (no less than 8 times in the 23 second video BTW) it was full of at least 4 cars running together and there was NO way I was going to try and blend in. I didn't "drift" right out of 7 as I was already there and again pointed the FE's by. Denny should have stayed behind the Blue FE instead of trying to use the situation to try and squeak by me with little to no room.

Yes, he pointed you by, but that doesn't mean he should alter his line - in fact it should be the opposite, particularly in a case like this in a pack of faster cars. If he had been watching his mirrors, he would have known that he needed to hold to the center while cars went past. In fact, I would have expected to see a jerk left when Denny's nose comes into the field of view - where was he looking?

Again, in 23 seconds of video you can clearly see my helmet twitch left to check my mirror no less than 8 times. No "jerk" left because I did my due diligance with the point by and I can't spend all my time watching mirrors. I was looking forward, accelerating and getting ready to blend back on line up to speed entering and exiting T8.


[/QUOTE]
I'll ask this, though - how did FM have three cars that all qualified tightly-bunched at 11 seconds off the pole time? This wasn't just one car with a mechanical problem.....???? Were these drivers all new to RA? [/QUOTE]


My Thursday practice times were better than Friday's qualifying times as I had problems during that session which resulted in fixing the car. I used Saturday's Q2 as a shakedown session to make sure car was ok to race Sunday. I can't speak for the other 2 FM's.

Does it really matter if it's anyone's first time to RA? Everyone has to have a first time there right? RA isn't cheap and it's not like you can go there anytime you want. Just saying.

[kart_racer_44]

Additional onboard video from Dean Oppermann's FE POV.

http://youtu.be/bDvBTmleYn4

[dmccallum]

Kevin,
Great to have you at the runoffs. I know that it did not go the way you wanted but it will get better. You did a great job. We had a few issues too. It is always hard with so mant cars and different speeds.
#1 McCallum Racing

[Marshall Mauney]

I was off line and slowed because an FC got the inside line on T6 as the red FC ahead of me just spun in T6 as I crested the hill and I was unsure if he would remain stopped or move.

OK - on second viewing, this makes sense.

I didn't "drift" right out of 7 as I was already there and again pointed the FE's by. Denny should have stayed behind the Blue FE instead of trying to use the situation to try and squeak by me with little to no room.

1) Your car clearly moved to the right, and did so slowly (which makes the ruling unclear). Since I haven't seen Denny's in-car video I can't tell how far over you were when he started his pass, but it's clear that you were moving to the right from your initial track-out coming out of T7.

2) The driver being passed doesn't get to dictate the line for the overtaking driver(s). Again, there is room for three cars on that portion of the track, so it's a reasonable expectation to be split when there is a pack of faster cars coming up behind you - even if it's because you slowed for a spinning car. Using a slower car as a "pick" is fair game - you may not like it when you're the FM meat in a FE sandwich, but there is nothing wrong with those guys deciding to go by on both sides. In Q2 for that same race, I went three-wide coming out of T14 going around a slower car while being passed by a FA. It's part of mixed-class racing, everywhere from SCCA Regionals all the way to Le Mans.

Again, in 23 seconds of video you can clearly see my helmet twitch left to check my mirror no less than 8 times. No "jerk" left because I did my due diligance with the point by and I can't spend all my time watching mirrors. I was looking forward, accelerating and getting ready to blend back on line up to speed entering and exiting T8.

There are multiple issues with what you've written here. From the GCR:

A. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.

ALL drivers have this responsibility. There was a half-car-width on the left of the FM, but the orange FE got pushed off-track right. There was/is no good reason for that gap on the right of the FM to have closed down - there was still plenty of track for a safe pass and a return to the racing line for the T8 turn-in.

B. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.

This includes the orange FE. There was enough room on the track for all three cars to have space to run, yet one was two wheels off on the right when contact occurred. Which car can you say was "deprived of racing room"?

C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.
D. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another
car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible
to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the
overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or
who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be
black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.

You said:

I did my due diligance with the point by and I can't spend all my time watching mirrors. I was looking forward

A point by is not "due diligence" - it is merely an acknowledgement that the driver of the slower car is aware of the faster car's presence. It is also not a command to the overtaking driver, nor to any other car on track. A point-by does not dictate to the overtaking driver where he/she must pass - that is the responsibility of the overtaking driver; the driver being passed still has the responsibility for paying attention to ALL other cars on track and making sure that he/she does not deprive ANY other car of racing room.

None of what I've said here removes the responsibility of the passing car - but you can't fall back on an excuse of "I gave a point by and assumed nobody was on the other side".

Does it really matter if it's anyone's first time to RA?

At the June Sprints, yes it DOES matter. This is not just any local regional race - a lot of people travel over a thousand miles and spend a LOT of money to be there, with the point being that it is supposed to be a very high level of competition. [Speaking for myself, I flew in from Birmingham to be at this race.] There are plenty of regional races under multiple sanctioning bodies held at RA, along with track days and car clubs.

I'm not intending to come across as harsh, but I think there are some real misconceptions here about who has what responsibility during a race.

[Marshall Mauney]

If this is truely how you feel i will make a mental note that if i get a run on you ever coming out of 6 and get my front wheels next to your rear wheels you will not move right to left to set up for 7. If you do thats Ok it will be your fault and you will go for the ride of your life. Have fun with that.

Dean, we've raced together enough that you should know that's not what I'm saying. In fact, I tend to err on the side of giving more space than necessary. I did that on the start at BHF earlier this year, when I ended up off-track at T2 running between you and Denny (on review it was totally self-inflicted - both of you gave me enough room).

I just think that when we have varying speeds in a pack, EVERYONE has to pay attention to EVERY other car out there and make room to avoid contact. If you're the slower car in a pack, you have to mirror-drive (as I was doing at that very moment - I was in the middle of the FA pack on the restart, due to a mechanical issue at the start).

[JByers]

Kevin,
Please take all that has been written here as constructive criticism. Those who would rather use this site as a whipping post are wrong and make all of us as a group look like a$$holes. Back in the day if a driver had issues with another it was expected of that person to approach the other to discuss the issue. More often than not the problems were resolved and both drivers went away learning from the experience. We need you no matter what your experience level is. We are a aging group and new entries should be welcomed and respected.

We were all new at one time. My first national was at Blackhawk and I almost got lapped by the leader of my class (FF). At that same event I practiced with an FA and almost turned into him at turn two, I never saw him and it scared the crap out of me. At my first June Sprints, I stayed wide at the kink to let a pack of faster cars go by and I almost hit the wall. During that race I crashed out because I didn't know the track well enough and I took out another competitor because of it.

So your first June Sprint left you feeling like you entered your first Rugby match after practicing flag football - (so what) - We should be here to help you improve and to encourage you to come back. Coming from the FA field I would have expected you to fade right after turn 7, that is the predictable line and that is all I expect while overtaking is for the other driver to be predictable.

One hint about this forum - (only post video that you are proud of or which can be helpful to others)

Jason

[BURKY]

Kevin,
Please take all that has been written here as constructive criticism. Those who would rather use this site as a whipping post are wrong and make all of us as a group look like a$$holes. Back in the day if a driver had issues with another it was expected of that person to approach the other to discuss the issue. More often than not the problems were resolved and both drivers went away learning from the experience. We need you no matter what your experience level is. We are a aging group and new entries should be welcomed and respected.

We were all new at one time. My first national was at Blackhawk and I almost got lapped by the leader of my class (FF). At that same event I practiced with an FA and almost turned into him at turn two, I never saw him and it scared the crap out of me. At my first June Sprints, I stayed wide at the kink to let a pack of faster cars go by and I almost hit the wall. During that race I crashed out because I didn't know the track well enough and I took out another competitor because of it.

So your first June Sprint left you feeling like you entered your first Rugby match after practicing flag football - (so what) - We should be here to help you improve and to encourage you to come back. Coming from the FA field I would have expected you to fade right after turn 7, that is the predictable line and that is all I expect while overtaking is for the other driver to be predictable.

One hint about this forum - (only post video that you are proud of or which can be helpful to others)

Jason

[Marshall Mauney]

Kevin,
Please take all that has been written here as constructive criticism.
[...]

We were all new at one time.

Well said.