Cost Per Race

[Christopher Crowe]

The cost of running a USAC Sprint Car on a per race basis (amortized over a season) is in the neighborhood of $1,800-2,000.

In real-life, what are the costs per race in either of the two F-1000 pro series events? This doesn't include the cost of the basic equipment (like the race car and transporter), just the costs after that -- tires, travel, fuel, entriee fees, etc., etc.

What are folks running competitive cars spending per racing event in the F-1000 category?

Thanks,

Chris Crowe

[Nick77]

Chris, don't forget about the cost offset of a real purse, tow money, green money and the ease of obtaining sponsorship compared to road racing. That is a much different world.

Nick

[Richard Dziak]

I think the driver/owners themselves have to chime in on this question.

I asked this question myself here on Apexspeed previously but no owner/driver was willing to step up and provide the information.

I will say however there can be a big difference in costs between driver/owners.

If the F1000 car is professionally maintained by a race car shop and transported to the race events all over the country, the costs will be much higher, than the bare bones owner/driver who maintains the car himself, and makes the tow to the event himself.

I have read posts here on Apexspeed by some drivers who maintained the car themselves, towed the car themselves to the event and even sleep in their own trucks/cars etc. at the track. I know of other drivers who never have the F1000 at home, and pay a professional race car shop to maintain the car, transport the car, and they just fly to the event, drive and leave. This costs a bundle.

Some owner/drivers have deep pockets and can spend/afford lots of money to race, while others have bare bone/beer budgets.

When I was racing in F1000 I had a racing budget set aside for a specific number of events. That was usually $10,000-$15,000 per year, for food, lodging, event fees, fuel, tires etc. This of course would not include any damage or parts to the car if needed.

It takes allot of disposable income to race these F1000 cars.

[provamo]

Chris were those USAC West pavement sprint race costs???

[JohnPaul]

Majors weekend
Weds-Sunday Schedule

Tires $1000 (one set)
Mechanic/ help $1000 (cheap)
Hotel $400
Travel Gas (Coral Spring to VIR) 1688 miles= $750 ($.44 per mile)
Racing gas 25 gallons ($5-10 per gallon) $250
Food and drink $400
Entry Fee’s $500
Test Day Fee $300
Misc. $300

$4900
oops, Beer $100
$5000

I pray my wife never see's this post.....

[Daryl DeArman]

Chris, don't forget about the cost offset of a real purse, tow money, green money and the ease of obtaining sponsorship compared to road racing. That is a much different world.

Nick

True that all those things offset the typical running costs, you also have significantly higher probability of crash damage and those associated costs to run the costs right back up.

[gcoffin]

Per race/event cost for any formula car is a moving target because almost no one counts all the costs......me included.

That said when you subtract hotel, mechanic/crew (wife will work for food and cook it), 1/2 the tire budget and fewer tow miles ends up about 2500.00 for our FC per weekend without testing. We stay at the track. Cost between races, prep and repair are not in this figure. I have no plans to refine this number

[Daryl DeArman]

Costs to travel, hotel/RV, food and entry fees are all independent of class.

Tires and race fuel vary more up and down the grid than they do the chosen class.

The rest of the costs I'd obviously have to defer to those actually running in FB.

[racerdad2]

CFC $2k per weekend on average. F1000 as above... Personally, I don't like to know, so I try to forget the $$$ spent & refuse to keep receipts

[andyllc]

I think what the OP was also getting at was the yearly overhead of engine overhauls, other things that need to be replaced a few times a year, not necessarily on a per event basis so he can get an idea of how much it will cost all together. If only the at track cost was the only amount of money it took.....wishful.

[Fletcher Wulff]

Chris were those USAC West pavement sprint race costs???

I think USAC only runs sprint cars on dirt, there are select midget races on pavement, and some silver crown races on pavement.

Is the $1800-$2000 number for a 410 or a 360 sprint car, I know USAC runs both run on the west coast?

Road racing running costs are going to be higher, starting with multi day events in road racing compared to single night shows for most USAC races. Purse money and tow money will also offset USAC costs.
Although I would guess that engine costs for a 410 sprint car would be much higher.



Fletcher Wulff

[Daryl DeArman]

Road racing running costs are going to be higher, starting with multi day events in road racing compared to single night shows for most USAC races. Purse money and tow money will also offset USAC costs.
Although I would guess that engine costs for a 410 sprint car would be much higher.

I don't know about you but I've raced a variety of classes and types of racing and I always spent every penny I had budgeted However I did have a season of open-wheel roundy-round racing that didn't cost me a cent when all was said and done.

[sgmcdonald]

Per race/event cost for any formula car is a moving target because almost no one counts all the costs......me included.

That said when you subtract hotel, mechanic/crew (wife will work for food and cook it), 1/2 the tire budget and fewer tow miles ends up about 2500.00 for our FC per weekend without testing. We stay at the track. Cost between races, prep and repair are not in this figure. I have no plans to refine this number

When I was racing in F500 regularly, running regionals and nationals, etc. the average race weekend cost including tires, car prep, entry fees, fuel, towing (like Greg, I don't count food either and my wife also worked and cooked for the privilege of being "crew chief" ), staying at the track, etc. ended up being just about $2,000 averaged over a full season of 6 to 8 weekends in the season including at least two double-race weekends.

The last year or two we raced we only did a couple weekends, didn't buy new tires, etc. thinking the costs would be much less but guess what? With race entries, fuel/fluids, groceries (counting these just because of a one-off weekend for true costs) and towing expenses, the cost for a weekend was still never less than $1,300.

[AEA_Team_Lotus]

Majors weekend
Weds-Sunday Schedule

Tires $1000 (one set)
Mechanic/ help $1000 (cheap)
Hotel $400
Travel Gas (Coral Spring to VIR) 1688 miles= $750 ($.44 per mile)
Racing gas 25 gallons ($5-10 per gallon) $250
Food and drink $400
Entry Fee’s $500
Test Day Fee $300
Misc. $300

$4900
oops, Beer $100
$5000

I pray my wife never see's this post.....

I spend about the same as JP, and it was the same when I ran my Formula Continental
In National race weekends.

[Purple Frog]

Those that have been following my posts the last 12 years... i keep pretty intense records.

Over the last 90 races in SCCA the average per race is $1503.99.

I'm one of those that race with volunteer crew, worn out race cars, sleep at the track.

I know guys in the pro series who own their cars spending $8,000 a weekend.

So... it is a big range. I figure I'm at the bottom or one up from Rand.

[Zcurves]

I'd have to agree with JP, minus the mechanic. I have an RV, but the savings of the hotel is needed in extra fuel required to drive the RV.

[Paddy O'Brien]

Most USAC shows are one day events so comparing the cost with a two or three day SCCA event is misleading. Also I have dabbled in USAC midgets and a few dirt sprint events and they are fun as a change of pace from RR. But I have talked to alot of roadrace guys who go short track racing and ultimately they almost all come to the conclusion that roadracing is much more fun.

[supersonicus]

One thing that needs to be factored in (or else racers don't need to have you on track with them) is pre-race prep. Dont know about other clases but atlantic cars are between 20-60 hours of labor + parts. Split the difference at 40 hours x $75 DPH and add $3,000 in labor. Figure $400 (very conservative) in parts and your at $3,400.

F1000 are fast cars and "proper" pre-race prep is essential otherwise somebody's going to get hurt, simple as that. That applies to all race cars.

[racerdad2]

I know a racer who paid $50k per race weekend for an arrive & drive in Trans Am..That's why we think club racing is cheap It's all relative, especially if you have a relative paying...

[protoform]

If you start with a car with a fresh motor and gear box you can go say 10 races and that would be 1 season for me. entry fees gas to get to and from the event. then there are road tolls, tires for me are $820.00 a set mounted and balanced I purchased 3 sets last year. that was last years price. $200.00 fri. practice. $380.00 to $500.00 entry fee. Then fuel cost for the motorhome 7 miles a gal. most trackes for me cost $400.00 for gas. Race fuel$50.00 I use avation fuel if you use real race gas double that or more. Oil change I use Mobil 1 with zdpp $16.99 a quart 4 quarts a weekend. mobil 1 gearbox oil $5.00 a weekend then at the end of the year you need to rebuild the engine and mabey go thru the gearbox. That is gonna be $2500.00 to $4000.00 that needs to be added into the cost of racing. The tracks charge you for plugging in your Motorhome If you tent you can delete this cost but not many do anymore, the wives don't like sleeping on the ground I am old enough now that I like a nice bed too. about $50.00 for camping. Now we are thinking I didn't get hit or run off the track and do any damage to the car or the body, but that will most likely happen at some point so Your guess is as good as mine as to what that will cost. I figure it costs me $2000.00 a weekend on average to race a Formula Vee. I would think a Formula 1000 would be more . Pete Cheney fv #06 NER

[SV@RHC]

Well, at about 2000.00 a race weekend, divide that by my track time....That's about 25 cents a second...I new i shouldn't have figured that out...

[Daryl DeArman]

Well, at about 2000.00 a race weekend, divide that by my track time....That's about 25 cents a second...I new i shouldn't have figured that out...

Be happy you aren't drag racing...

[racerdad2]

I rented a late model in 2001 for some roundy-round fun... just did the math... $1.00 per second Now, I remember why I try Not to remember...

[alp]

I use to race a Harley dragbike. In the top fuel class you can figure run cost around $1500 a run (6.5 seconds)! If a weekend goes well $7500 for just the bike add on that hotel, food, help etc. As the saying goes "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go". For the fast classes of any type of racing, if you have to ask it probably isn't for you....

[racerdad2]

DANG !!! Drag racing wins So, Top Fuel is, say $50k per run ?

[alp]

not to derail the OP's question but here's just a view of the fuel consumed in one run by ONE cylinder in a nitro top fuel car. Nitromethane, I think, is going for around $60/gallon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY You can do the math from there! I think a TF dragster/funny car is around $10-15 000 per pass!

[racerdad2]

Years ago, they had a Top Fuel engine mock-up with a plexiglass top half so you could watch how much fuel ran thru the engine. They used water, it was incredible. Looked like they opened a fire hydrant...

[alp]

look at the link above and you will see the video of it...

[provamo]

i think that the fuelie fuel is also the coolant ?

[racerdad2]

You are correct, sir !

[Christopher Crowe]

"Chris were those USAC West pavement sprint race costs???"

The costs were the USAC Midwest shows; 410 CI engines. The cost of repair to a Sprint Car -- even if pretty thoroughly trashed -- isn't as bad as one might think. They're simple cars; the chassis, bodies, wheels pretty damned cheap relative to our formula cars.

The reason I looked up the data is that on my returning to the sport after a thirty year absence, there were two things that really smacked me in the face: The grids are WAY smaller and the costs (in relative dollars) are WAY higher.

Tires are a big contributer to this wild increase in cost since the time I was last involved. Tire costs were minimal then; and tires lasted a long time. And so, the running of soft racing tires instead of something spec and long-lasting, absolutely bewilders me.

Why this expense, folks? Do you think this area is at least part of the reason for the relatively small grids were seeing relative to three decades ago?

Thanks,

Chris

[racerdad2]

As a Noob, I asked the same question. Nearly everyone else runs on a spec tire. For whatever the reason, the general consensus has been... It can't be done... They run a spec tire in an FF series in Canada... I doubt I'll have the $$$ for new tires each weekend or race day... But, as long as I have some one to race with during a race, I'm pretty happy

[ghickman]

Chris
From the mid 70's all the way up till I quit SCCA racing in 1990 I have not seen the costs go out of line with the value of the dollar. In 1982 my last year of Formula Atlantic a set of tires cost around $550. In 1989 my last year at the Runoffs in Formula Ford I spent $4,000 on tires for the week that we were at Road Atlanta.

Entry fees back then were around $100 and race gas was something like $2 a gallon. A nice hotel room cost $30 a night and so on.

Now I pay $900 for a set of tires for my FB so I really don't see the tire expense being that out of line.

There is no reason you can't run a set of tires on your FB and get 6 heat cycles out of them. Yes you could practice, qualify, and race on the same set and maybe do it the next day if its a Dbl Weekend. Will you be at the pointy end of the grid, I doubt it. I can bet though that you'll have a lot of fun and there will most likely be someone to race with.

This has always been an expensive sport and will always be expensive. This is most of the reason why you see people come and go out of the sport. For me FB was my idea of getting the speed of an Atlantic without the high maintenance costs and the cars look awesome.

[Christopher Crowe]

FB was a great concept for maxing the speed/cost ratio. But, and yes, racing was ALWAYS expensive... but why use high-performance limited heat-cycle tires?

It's an honest question. Perhaps before you were old enough to become involved in the sport, Gary, racing tires we very inexpensive and lasted a very long time. Several races long in the early Seventies -- even in high-horsepower categories.

If tires like that were manufactured today and mandated for use in the various classes, great heaps of money would be saved. And the only thing that would be lost is... well, traction! And who cares? Everyone would be limited in this area in EXACTLY the same way -- the playing field would be level -- and the cost of fielding a car would simply go down.

If we all would like to see grid-sizes increase, why not invoke this kind of "radical" thinking (resurrected from a long time ago). I think it would pretty well guarantee more participation in the sport. The sport would be made healthier.

I realize this kind of sweeping cost-cutting notion has been floated before... and the idea has been met with great resistance. I'm just sincerely wondering WHY. It all seems like such a no-brainer.

I think the days of the thirty and forty car grids at SCCA Regional and National events may be gone forever -- for all kinds of reasons, including the sociological. But the increased real-dollar cost of the sport has doubtlessly impacted things too. Racing simply DOES cost more than it did before folks fell in love with high-grip-high-expense toss-away tires that became available in the early Seventies. It costs a LOT more.

Why has there been such resistance to the idea of going "back in time" in the tire area? It seems such an easy, fell-swoop way of potentially bringing more competitors into the sport.

Thanks,

Chris

[Tiago Santos]

I firmly believe there was a cultural shift at some point. Win at all costs, rather than compete as equals. Racing tends to attract the hyper competitive people who both can afford to spend the money, and will spend every dollar they can to have an advantage.

Like you, I don't understand it. If everyone is spending $$$ on new tires for every race, it isn't an advantage, it's just throwing money into the wind. But if we can't agree on running harder, longer lasting tires in FV, good luck getting that idea to stick in FB!

[Christopher Crowe]

Tiago, yes. I've broached the issue before and met with great resistance to this kind of change.

I'm just trying to get a better handle on "why."

In the end, cost-reduction can only increase gird-size. One would think those hyper-competitive personalities would welcome the appearance of a few more folks to vanquish!

I'm trying to unserstand it. And failing.

Thanks,

Chris

[SilverCarbir_FC26]

I budget about $1000 per day for a formula continental, I cant imagine an FB costing that much more then an FC for running cost. This sport starts to get expansive when you run multiple cars and for us 2 is plenty and keeps us on our toes.

[Albatross]

I don't see anyone including the cost per race for an engine rebuild. I believe the vintage race organizers (SOVREN) here in the Pacific NW think that money grows on trees with the highest entry fees.

[ccoffin]

Per race/event cost for any formula car is a moving target because almost no one counts all the costs......me included.

That said when you subtract hotel, mechanic/crew (wife will work for food and cook it), 1/2 the tire budget and fewer tow miles ends up about 2500.00 for our FC per weekend without testing. We stay at the track. Cost between races, prep and repair are not in this figure. I have no plans to refine this number

Those that have been following my posts the last 12 years... i keep pretty intense records.

Over the last 90 races in SCCA the average per race is $1503.99.

I'm one of those that race with volunteer crew, worn out race cars, sleep at the track.

I know guys in the pro series who own their cars spending $8,000 a weekend.

So... it is a big range. I figure I'm at the bottom or one up from Rand.

I believe both my dad's figure and PF's account for long term costs like engine rebuild, occasional replacement of worn out components, etc. I know our figure doesn't account for things like replacing a broken wing (random expenses that you hopefully never have to deal with).

[racerdad2]

I know guys in Pro F2000 that spent $8400.00 each race weekend just in tyres.... there is no upper limit