FC Weight

[Mike B]

We weren't arguing, we were "discussing."
I agree that the poll should be re-run every year, maybe even towards the end of this year. Bob mentioned that in 5 years when us poor guys are driving RF99's, we'll all be wanting the increase in minimum weight. In theory, yes. In reality, when has anything in racing ever gotten heavier (or cheaper) from year to year? Everyone will have figured out how to lose the weight and when I buy a five or six year old RF99, it will be completely developed and below weight. So get crackin'! And don't bend up my future car in the meantime

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Mike Beauchamp
RF95

[El Guapo]

O.K., gringoes, I've watched this discussion with great interest. Until now, I kept my big mouth shut, but now it's time for me to weigh in. Speaking of weighing in, I am 6'3" and 190 lbs. Last year, I did the first half of the season in an RF98, then when we sold that car, we got an RF96. Personally, I don't care whether the weight limit is raised or not (my vote in the poll was for "no"). IMHO most club racers will be able to improve much more by sharpening up their driving skills than by shaving ten, or even twenty pounds. Having driven both the later and earlier models, my assessment is that the '98 is, of course, the better car. I promise you that styling aside, the '98 has a much more effective aero package. The increased wheel-base makes for a more stable platform. Bottom-line? I was marginally quicker in the '98. The limits of the car exceed those of the driver. Get Aaron Justice to do a back-to-back test, and I believe the later model car would come out ahead, regardless of the small weight difference. Why did I vote no in the poll? Van Dieman knew the rules when they built the car. I now have a '98 again for this season, and do not feel as though I am giving anything away to earlier cars. Later.

EG

[dc]

Good point Peter. The fact is, the rules have been there for a while, and it isn't anything new to VD. They made a conscious decision to make the car exactly the way it is now, and obviously with good reason. I wouldn't hesitate to guess that the weight issues are marginal when compared to driver skill.

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GREEN means GO

[Bullitt]

I absolutely cannot resist one last comment. Since there is no tongue in cheek smilie for me to insert, you will have to assume several of them are displayed here.


For RobLav, the statistician: If your concept of what to do when a poll is close were applied to the recent presidential election, would the election have been canceled and Clinton remain in office -- at least until another election try this coming November?

Bob Layman

[RobLav]

I knew someone couldn't resist the recent Presidential election results...
Bullit, my concept could not be applied to the Pres election - the law said his time was up, so...
Anyway, I do statistics, but I am not a statistician. But I'd throw this question in with the pile of constant process improvement theory. (Is the Pres election part of this too????) Decisions based on facts would require a level of significance much higher than the Pres election. (Sounds odd doesn't it?)
Anybody want me to go further in this topic? take offline? We had enough?

[dc]

Rob, if I may put words in your mouth, I think your point in there was that if there is a request for change, and a general consensus is split down the middle, the most amicable solution is to not change and not upset the apple cart. It may not be logical or fair, but unless there is a strong majority in favor of a change, it will probably remain as is.

I'm interested to see where the final vote tallies at the end of the week. I'm pretty sure that this is an issue that doesn't have a solution that everyone will be happy with.


-doug

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GREEN means GO

[This message has been edited by Doug Carter (edited January 30, 2001).]

[Randy Young]

May '01 FasTrack News, Proposed Rule Changes, FC

"In order to allow competitors to compete in Club and Pro racing venues without requiring major adjustments to the cars, the Competition Board recommends changing the minimum weight to 1190 lb effective 1/1/02.

1. Revise Section 17.1.6.B.4.1 to read as follows: Weight: 1190 lb with driver"

[Dan Kennison]

Finally, okay now I can get back to: fried chicken, mash potatoes, sour cream, butter and chocolate cake with ice cream.

My taste buds thank you!!!!!

[Bullitt]

Hey Dan,

Sounds good. However, I was thinking that continuing to watch my diet and the proposed new weight would not only get me to the minimum weight but also give 5 lbs of moveable balast to tune with. Additionally, the weight rule would eliminate several thousands dollars from the preparation/update expense budget category. Unfortunately, circumstances somewhat out of my control mean that I probably cannot race this year hence my RF98 is for sale.

Anyway, hooray for the more level playing field.

Bob Layman

[Mike B]

In order to allow competitors to compete in club and pro venues without major adjustments? Who came up with that faulty stretch of logic? All this time I thought it was the $400 entry fee, the $500 USF2000 registration fee, the $700 spec tires, and the snowball's chance of finishing anywhere but last, and it turns out it was just a lousy 15 pounds that was keeping me from running a pro race! I expect to see everyone with an "uncompetitive" RF98-00 signed up for at least one pro race.

What happened to this being a safety issue?

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Mike Beauchamp
RF95

[Dan Kennison]

Sorry to hear you can't drive. If you need to get listed on a crew list, so you can get in, let me know.

[Purple Frog]

Obviously the reason the "blue site" vanished was that a discussion such as this one could not be carried on.
Since i'm driving an ancient car that weighs a ton (a fact not helped by it's driver's girth) I read the whole discussion from a different perspective.
I thought Dan was saying it would be nice to be able to meet the class minimum without having to spend the extra $4,500. Then those that are going to spend the $4,500 still will (for the performance gain attributed to lighter rotating mass), but they would also pickup the added gain of being able to strategically place ballast. All in all, the guy spending the $4,500 will still have the theoretically faster car... but at least they would all be the same weight.
Since I'm back in Club Continental, for selfish reasons I propose we try out an increased minimum weight in that class to measure it's success before we promote it up to FC.

[dc]

Maybe if I fill up the entire cockpit with water I might be able to make the new weight.

I need a cheeseburger.

[Randy Young]

Let's see:

Don carries 20 lb of ballast at 1175. OK ... we'd need to find a way to install 35 lb next year.

But now Don's wife is thinking about driving, she'll need to carry 85 lb of ballast! I'll guess the best solution is just to replace the floor with a 1/4" thick steel plate.

[Dan Kennison]

That should give you a real advantage. With that much weight just a inch off the ground your overall CG should be really good. Plus, think of how stiff the frame will be. It will be interestiing to see just how thick the plate could be. You could probably get rid of your skid plates and run the car really low.

Randy do you know how to calculate the total area of the current under plate as it is now and then figure how thick you could go as the weight goes up? Does anyone know how many thicknesses are available?

Maybe someone in that type business will market +2, +4, +6 lbs etc...

[Tab]

Wow! What a shocker. For us slow guys it is a plus, as it brings the faster guys back to our level, I just weighed my car yesterday and if I dont turn into a bloated toad over next year I will be 4 lbs over weight with no fuel. It sucks for the guys who have invested precious money to lose weight only to have to add it back. Out of curosity how many Fc drivers actually run the pro races? Seems like Denver gives in to the squeaky wheel with the most money. Piss on us small guys who keep this club afloat. Sure we'll change our cars to make it convenient for a few....why not sink a profit making business for a few whiners. Maybe next we can put slow moving signs on us backmarkers and make it mandatory we pull over and let the fast guys pass before continuing. Sorry just blowing a little steam. Just another fine suggestion from the "lets add a possible fire hazard hose to the fuel cells of racers because we're anal about the fuel your running. (we all know how dangerous that damn unleaded fuel is) experts at SCCA. Does anyone know what cut the SCCA gets for all these silly rules?

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Tab FC#92

[Mike B]

Wow, Tab!
I thought I was reading one of my own posts! You forgot to vent on the transponders that may or may not work at any given time.
Seriously, I didn't see one mention of being able to run pro races as an argument for adding extra weight. Why do I get the feeling this was some backdoor legislation ala Slick Willie? I may be mistaken, but I thought there were other rule differences between club & pro to overcome as well. Any Pro guys around to clarify?
I don't see how this brings the fast guys back to your level. You'll still have to be the same weight in an older car and the fast guys will still have new or year-old cars.
I also would like to know how many FC guys are running Pro races. My guess is there are 2, maybe 3 at any given race. Hardly enough to justify the purported reason for the rule change. How about a poll?


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Mike Beauchamp
RF95

[Tab]

Your right Mike, it does'nt bring them back to my level (their well beyond backmarker speed LOL) anyway it was just a chance to blow off.....TRANSPONDERS....I FORGOT THAT TURD...AS IF WE DONT PAY ENOUGH OUT. Thanks Mike ..............where the hell is that rope and chair..LOL I guess I'll just pay and play. Its just like real politics, you can contribute all you want but they use a different set of laws to make decisions.

[dc]

Next week's poll question...


Good, now we don't have to spend all week thinking what we're gonna ask. Its almost time to start some recycling. Still looking for good suggestions, too.


d

[dc]

Well, we're getting a much higher ration on the poll than I had expected. However, I still don't believe they should change the rules to suit the new and the minority. That's just me.

Maybe next week's question should ask how many of us are currently over or under the minimum without any additional weight on the car.


doug