What kind of oil do you run?

[sracing]

. As desparate as the marketing department was to find a "cooler running" or "less friction" advantage for his synthetic oil, it simply could not be found when testing with state-of-the art equipment, just as he predicted.

Total real frictional losses in a IC engine is about 6 to 8%. (REF: Mobile Labs, Lubrication Sciences, etc) So many wild claims of HP or MPG claims with synthetics are just simply bogus. Any HP/MPG gains only occur when the oil is cold, since the pour rate of synthetics is so much better. After 140-150F you will not see any gains with a synthetic.

Even if you could decrease frictional losses to zero (not going to happen) 6% is all you could ever gain in HP at best.

We have done many back to back tests on a pretty good engine dyno setup with dino oils and synthetics on SBF, SBC and ACVW's. After 150F not one additional HP is visible (or Torque for those that don't understand HP ).

Protection is the adavantage of synthetics.

If you want significant HP gains to the back wheels. Use the Synthetics in your drive train also. Trans and Diffs can eat up 10% of your HP. A synthetic can offer as much as 3+% more HP in the early laps. VERY measureable on the chassis dyno.

Ten+ years ago, Mobile Labs did dyno testing across many synthetic brands. They found NO difference in HP between the brands. They did find many oils to be better or worse in composition, QC, contaminants, etc. but not performance.

[Jon Jeffords]

One of my first RedLine synthetic oil customers, was an air-cooler (type 4) Super-Vee racer, who had a "engine losing RPM during a race" problem on regular oil (and we tried a few), that went away once we put RedLine in it.

Oil foaming perhaps.

[brownslane]

To add to Jim's comments we find a measurable temp drop in V12 engines. Typically up to 10 degrees (indicated) on a fresh oil change.

Personally, I see a ten degree drop when towing. I can't believe any engine would run hotter with better lubrication ('cause there is less friction). And if I am towing my 32 footer with a half-ton, you know there must be a bunch of friction-fighting needed.

Jim is absolutely right about using synthetics in transmissions and rear ends. With MG's and Jags, the Moss boxes get a little "graunchy" . In some boxes I have seen a simple switch from Dino to synthetic trans fluid eliminate the graunching (I like that word)...in one box it made the difference in being able to get the box to select reverse without shutting the engine off. The problem was NOT the old dino fluid; it really was the wear and tear over 40 odd years of use....but the synthetic fluid made enough of a difference to postpone the rebuild.



I have learned a lot from this discussion . Thanks guys, this is a good thread!

Tom

[racerdad2]

I learn a lot here on Apex I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken... Redline certainly has a great reputation. I think I need another car to run so I can compare Mobil 1 to Redline... Too many variables... Nevermind.

[racerdad2]

BTW. I use synthetics in everything I can I haven't used dino fluids except to set the piston rings in a re-build. Am I wrong there, too ?

[sracing]

BTW. I use synthetics in everything I can. I haven't used dino fluids except to set the piston rings in a re-build. Am I wrong there, too ?

Yes, I THINK so. But I do it also. For break-in we have a program on the dyno that runs the engines between 2000 and 2500 RPM at no load for 20 minutes using Joe Gibbs BR oils.

However talking with some oil engineering oil folks, they say "hooey". They say that the rings may "break-in" a mile or two faster with dino oil vs. synth. Big deal.

Also all the synthetic manufacturer web sites say the same thing. ("hooey").

Since BR is a bit cheaper than synthetic it still makes sense to me to use it verses Synth. Since we throw the BR away after the runs.

Note: that about 20 models of cars now come shipped new with Mobile1 in them. Not a perfect comparison, but lends credence to the fact that you can break them in just as good with synthetic.

[brownslane]

I recommend break in with non-synthetics for my Jag customers. This is for nodular iron or moly rings in cast steel liners. Synthetics are too slippery and won't seat the rings.

Synthetics after the first 12 hours of running. YMMV, but I want to see 600 miles on the clock before I am satisfied (this is for street motors) that are set up real tight.

For race engines I break in (1.5 hours) on Dino oil, then synthetics. Remember, this is for old-tech engines designed in the late 1940's.

T

[Albatross]

Not to steal the thread, but I thought that this would be a good place to solicit remarks about SLICK 50 with all their claims. My neighbor made a living years ago selling the stuff and still absolutely swears by the stuff. I bought a qt. of SLICK 50 "Engine Oil Treatment" for my wife to donate to her Springer Spaniel dog club's silent auction. I was very surprised by the amount of bidding that it attracted. Any comments would be entertained. Most comments in Google are not favorable. Favorable comments appear to be greatly exaggerated. Anyone want to admit that they use it regularly?

[sracing]

The ads made it (Slick50) popular. According to analysis (and claims) it was or is PTFE (Teflon). Dupont, which invented Teflon, says it is NOT good for an engine. Tests by Educational campus' and the FTC, say that is not good for the engine and actual measurements of oil flow show that the PTFE clogs filters and passages. This and other additives also sometimes include viscosity indexers. Indexers are the things that give the oil it's weight range. 10W30, 5W40 etc. STP (another additive) was primarilly indexer. If you want a wider range oil, just buy it. Especially since the manufactured oil index stays longer.

I wouldn't add anything to your oil. With the possible exception of ZDDP if required.

BTW, Slick 50 and STP along with others were fined by the FTC and forced to desist making some of their claims.

We also tested some oil additives here a few years ago... Diamond something or other, STP, and something else I can't remember right now. Diamond did nothing, STP lost HP, the others did nothing. (Short term) I have no idea what problems they would cause long term.)

Anybody remember the Chevy Vega? Aluminum block with no sleeves but Teflon coatings.. Averaged about 10K miles between rebuilds.

[Albatross]

I stopped by the local NAPA store and read on the back of the SLICK 50 carton:

1) Slick 50 guarantees your satisfaction within 30 days or your money back.

2) "Tested and proven by Shell laboratories" along side of the Shell yellow clamshell emblem.

3) SLICK 50 reduces friction by 17%.

[Albatross]

And then there was Caroll Shelby pitching his snake oil...

[racerdad2]

Slick 50 ain't all that... I'be used something called Pro Tek (memory fades) that saved an engine. First wife ran car out of water. Kept running til it seized. Had 150k miles. I just replaced head gasket. Ran for over 250k miles with no issues. One of those long chained molecule formulas. I can highly recommend all the Lucas Oil additives. No, my name ain't Lucas...

[DK540]

Jim - do you have any synthetic recommendations for FF? In my MGB I'm using 30W non-detergent because there's not as much foaming, and Swepco in the diff. However, the MGB only runs around 3K-4Krpm most of the time.

David

[sracing]

Jim - do you have any synthetic recommendations for FF? In my MGB I'm using 30W non-detergent because there's not as much foaming, and Swepco in the diff. However, the MGB only runs around 3K-4Krpm most of the time.

David

Any brand name synthetic (labled "Off Road Use Only" or "Racing Oil") should work fine. Mobile 1, RedLine, Valvoline, etc. are all quite up to the task. Race oils are normally non-detergent aand cary the additives to protect a falt tappet cam. I also assume a 30W is fine. (but that could vary based upon your engine's builder.)

[sracing]

.. I'be used something called Pro Tek (memory fades) that saved an engine.

ProTec. It was PTFE (Teflon) I don't know what it is now. They were also fined by the FTC.
They used to run some unbeleivable Saturday morning Infomercials. Fun to watch. Right out of a carnival side show.
I think luck saved your wifes engine.