Data Acquisition

[Trey Range]

I'm a new FM driver, just bought one from MSR in Texas about 6 weeks ago. How do you guys rig up data acquisition products to the car? The Aim Solo looks great for the price, but there is so little room in the cockpit I'm not sure where I could put it (I know steering throws off g readings).

Any other data options for similar money?

[kflyer]

Trey,

Moses sells a dash you can install and mount data to it. Look in the FM fore sale pics and the "show us your FM" thread to see pictures of the different installs. Good luck!

Kevin

[Trey Range]

Thanks. I may end up going that route, I was just under the impression that any device with an internal g meter would be thrown off by mounting on the steering wheel.

[David Ferguson]

Some data systems have a separate dash suitable for mounting on a steering wheel (AIM G-Dash, and CDS Co-Pilot2) for example. More common in FM are data systems integrated into the dash, and mounted ahead of the wheel (Pi System2, Motec ADL, Aim MXL, Stack MFD).

The AIM Solo would not work well attached to the wheel, but the FM dash is pretty large (compared to say a Van Diemen or Piper), so I think you could find a place to mount that.

Another possibility is to use a integrated video/data system. This would not replace your gauges, but would either sync the data to your video, or overlay the video on the data. If you had plans for a video camera anyway, then you're part way there budget wise.

David Ferguson
Veracity Racing Data
805-238-1699

[Dave Cutchins]

Trey,

I used the old FM dash as a template and made my own out of a piece of carbon fiber from Pegasus and added additional switches for fans and aux electric water pump.

[mikey]

Trey,
I will show you my EVO4 and AIM steering wheel in my FE when we catch up at Barber in March. The FE pretty much only has room for a steering wheel display, it comes with the Pi C-dash from the factory. I wanted a GPS system and liked what the EVO4 offered for a pretty good price, so given the lack of cockpit room it only made sense to add the steering wheel integrated display! I am quite happy with it.

Mike

[Rick Ross]

You do not need a steering wheel mounted dash in an FM. I have owned several FM's, and I would recommend a nice large (easy to read) fixed panel mounted dash.

Take a hard look at the Motec SDL, Pi Omega, or AIM MXL. Someone recently posted a used Pi Omega on this site for a good price.

[Trey Range]

Thanks for all of the replies! I thought about an Aim Pista or similar, but that's really not in my price range for the foreseeable future. I am still a beginning racer, and I just want accurate lap times, brake points, and preferably a predictive lap timer function (which I think solo satisfies for like $400!). I have a decent bit of track time in other cars, but I am very much still learning the FM and want a budget data setup.

Trey,
I will show you my EVO4 and AIM steering wheel in my FE when we catch up at Barber in March. The FE pretty much only has room for a steering wheel display, it comes with the Pi C-dash from the factory. I wanted a GPS system and liked what the EVO4 offered for a pretty good price, so given the lack of cockpit room it only made sense to add the steering wheel integrated display! I am quite happy with it.

Mike

Sounds good, I look forward to it!

[George Main]

Thanks for all of the replies! I thought about an Aim Pista or similar, but that's really not in my price range for the foreseeable future. I am still a beginning racer, and I just want accurate lap times, brake points, and preferably a predictive lap timer function (which I think solo satisfies for like $400!). I have a decent bit of track time in other cars, but I am very much still learning the FM and want a budget data setup.

A data logger is a very important tool for a beginner and just as helpful as it is for a pro experienced driver. I would argue it's even more important. Your concentration has a capacity, say 10 dollars worth. When you learn something new, that "new thing" may use upwards of 9 dollars of your concentration UNTIL it becomes second nature and you do it without thinking. This reduces the amount to say 5 cents. The next new thing you learn, fills up the capacity once again.
This never stops and continues through out a driver's career.
A data logger, has the capacity to record these events, for review not only by you but also your instructor or coach, and can greatly reduce the time it takes to become a nickel.
And to add, will verify the things you are doing right vs the ones that need to be worked on, at your leisure. Having the ability to review your driving, has an effect of enabling recall of your last outing(s) of numerous things (rather than just the one taking up your $10).

Data acq. is a tool, probably the most important one in the tool box. When comes to tools do you consider Harbor Freight as your tools? Hoping to move to Snap On/Craftsman as you become more experienced? Data choices work the same way...though is the only tool that can effect/advance your driving in the fastest way possible.
The driver's data choice has these sensors steering position, throttle position, speed (can be GPS), Lat and Long G (in car not from GPS) engine RPM.
And able to record these at minimum at 20 samples a second.
IMHO

[Trey Range]

A data logger is a very important tool for a beginner and just as helpful as it is for a pro experienced driver. I would argue it's even more important. Your concentration has a capacity, say 10 dollars worth. When you learn something new, that "new thing" may use upwards of 9 dollars of your concentration UNTIL it becomes second nature and you do it without thinking. This reduces the amount to say 5 cents. The next new thing you learn, fills up the capacity once again.
This never stops and continues through out a driver's career.
A data logger, has the capacity to record these events, for review not only by you but also your instructor or coach, and can greatly reduce the time it takes to become a nickel.
And to add, will verify the things you are doing right vs the ones that need to be worked on, at your leisure. Having the ability to review your driving, has an effect of enabling recall of your last outing(s) of numerous things (rather than just the one taking up your $10).

Data acq. is a tool, probably the most important one in the tool box. When comes to tools do you consider Harbor Freight as your tools? Hoping to move to Snap On/Craftsman as you become more experienced? Data choices work the same way...though is the only tool that can effect/advance your driving in the fastest way possible. IMHO

I understand the importance of having data acq and someone there that knows what it all means (plus a good driver to run my car to compare). But do I really need much more than accurate lap times, brake/accel points, and g forces? If it says I'm 4mph lower than the good driver in turn 10, that seems pretty straightforward.

I am 100% going to buy data, but what quantitatively does the $2k system do that the $400 won't? I don't think bringing up cheapo HF parts is fair to the solo, it is still made by one of the biggest names in data, it just isn't their flagship. Maybe there is something I don't know, and the multi thousand dollar systems do something that the cheap one doesn't, but I've never heard anyone say what exactly separates it. Don't get me wrong, if I had $$$ to throw around I'd buy a nice dash unit with tach and shift lights and all of that stuff, but I'd also probably have a PFM.

[iracer]

My team runs a fleet of F/Mazdas, amongst other formula cars, and I love the AIM Solo. They are mounted to the steering wheel and because they are GPS based data they are not affected by the orientation of the steering wheel as you turn it. I also use other AIM systems and Pi systems but for the price you cant beat the AIM Solo.
Note: it mounts to its bracket by means of magnets but to be safe put a strip of racers tape on it as well in case you hit a large bump and it falls off. Speaking from experience of course !

[mikey]

I understand the importance of having data acq and someone there that knows what it all means (plus a good driver to run my car to compare). But do I really need much more than accurate lap times, brake/accel points, and g forces? If it says I'm 4mph lower than the good driver in turn 10, that seems pretty straightforward.

I am 100% going to buy data, but what quantitatively does the $2k system do that the $400 won't? I don't think bringing up cheapo HF parts is fair to the solo, it is still made by one of the biggest names in data, it just isn't their flagship. Maybe there is something I don't know, and the multi thousand dollar systems do something that the cheap one doesn't, but I've never heard anyone say what exactly separates it. Don't get me wrong, if I had $$$ to throw around I'd buy a nice dash unit with tach and shift lights and all of that stuff, but I'd also probably have a PFM.

Trey,
Just knowing your speed at a given point on the track doesn't allow you to discover why the speed is what it is. I'll show you what the EVO4 gives you and I think it will be immediately obvious. I'm at the very basic end of understanding my data, but wouldn't settle for less than GPS speed, lat/long accels, throttle position and rpm. When I get around to adding the steering position sensor, I will be able to learn more about my driving.
Predictive lap timing is nice to have out on track, mine even displays differential to best lap of the session which I really like because I can get some immediate feedback if a different line, brake point, or gear was better in almost any section of track as the timer continually updates +/- differential from best lap. I can be ahead by braking later into turn 1 but then behind after the turn because I was too late into the corner and now too slow out of it for example. When you put sections together correctly, you can see the positive variance immediately.

Mike

[romoman]

The SOLO has the same predictive timing. Many pro teams in ALMS and Grand AM run SOLOs in addition to their other systems just for the predictive time functions.

[Trey Range]

Thanks for all of the input. Considering the engineers (or lack thereof) I have access to, and the price points, and my expectations from myself (i.e., not winning runoffs just yet ) the SOLO sounds great.

[Rick Ross]

The SOLO has the same predictive timing. Many pro teams in ALMS and Grand AM run SOLOs in addition to their other systems just for the predictive time functions.

That's interesting. I walked down the grid at the Petit Lemans and EVERYONE was running either Pi or Motec (with the exception of the spec LMPC cars). Next time I will look closer and see if any Aim Solo units are also present.

[romoman]

That's interesting. I walked down the grid at the Petit Lemans and EVERYONE was running either Pi or Motec (with the exception of the spec LMPC cars). Next time I will look closer and see if any Aim Solo units are also present.

Sometimes they are hidden if you don't really look (it's right above the front mount of the right side net). Here is one that Roger Caddell found watching Daytona.

[George Main]

I understand the importance of having data acq and someone there that knows what it all means (plus a good driver to run my car to compare). But do I really need much more than accurate lap times, brake/accel points, and g forces? If it says I'm 4mph lower than the good driver in turn 10, that seems pretty straightforward.

I am 100% going to buy data, but what quantitatively does the $2k system do that the $400 won't? I don't think bringing up cheapo HF parts is fair to the solo, it is still made by one of the biggest names in data, it just isn't their flagship. Maybe there is something I don't know, and the multi thousand dollar systems do something that the cheap one doesn't, but I've never heard anyone say what exactly separates it. Don't get me wrong, if I had $$$ to throw around I'd buy a nice dash unit with tach and shift lights and all of that stuff, but I'd also probably have a PFM.

The MXL is 20-40x what the Solo is. Comparing the Solo, at 1/5 the price. As far as "useable" data, in the Aim product line, the Solo is HF box open set, the MXL is a Snap on full tool set.
Go seek someone out that has a data system and uses it for their driver, their car and racing program, and watch.
Your concept of what data is and does, needs some education.

And Romoman,, putting a Solo next to a Motec, CDS, Pi or MXL is redundant. They all do the same thing already. IMHO

[racerdad2]

Hey Trey ! Sounds like you may be a bit like me. I race for the joy of racing. I'm a seat-of-the-pants, intuitive driver. My best laps & races come when I'm in the 'zone' & just one with the car... For me, and it may just be me, I'm faster when my data is off. To me, its distracting. I'm slower when I'm 'thinking' about my driving than when I'm just driving.... However, IF you are truly serious about your racing & want to, need to, run out front, then DATA is an absolute must have... & the more you have, the better you'll be... Post race data, predictive laps, track mapping, driver inputs are invaluable & truly 'must haves' to be truly competitive. This old man is finally diving into the world of DATA & finding it challenging, oft times intimidating, but ultimately, fascinating & rewarding. Whatever path you're on, enjoy the journey !

[VSeaber]

We often use the Traqmate system for basic driver analysis and comparision. They are inexpensive, reliable and easy to use. We have a Traqmate Basic system that we will loan to people that can install in 5 minutes and give a lot of valuable information- for the FM's we love to have 2 or 3 cars to compare against that are on the track during the same session. We often get more out of comparative analysis than in-depth single car analysis in terms of driver improvement.

We run a 250 channel MoTeC system. At the same time as the Traqmate. Really.

In-depth data analysis between test day sessions? Ain't nobody got time for dat.

We get even more from the Traqmate system with integrated video. Easy to use and more importantly reliable. You can add additional sensors to the system; for example we have run steering angle and brake pressure sensors.

If you come to VIR our shop is in the main paddock; we'll loan you the system and give you something to compare against.

Victor Seaber
VIPER
www.oduviper.com

[Trey Range]

Thanks for the reply Victor. I go to VIR frequently, I'm sure I'll stop by in the near future. Can you give me a phone number or other contact info for the shop? The website in your post doesn't go anywhere for me.

[VSeaber]

My mistake, link should be fixed.

[Bob Wheless]

You will be amazed at what simple data can do for your driving , from an old seat of the pants old fat fart .Viper is the BOMB!!

[racerdad2]

Checked out Traqmate, like the video coupling...