Hold station to Turn 11

[dwornik]

In Historic F1 Racing at say, Laguna, there is a mandate to ALL the drivers that there is NO-passing until the cars exit turn 4.
In light of how many F1000 cars will be racing in Austin, what do people think of everyone holding their qualifying position until they exit turn 11.....the hairpin at the far end of the track. I am assuming that F1000 will have a split start??
This may not be 'Pure Racing' but look at what is at stake......many drivers doing their 1st ever F1000 race, 50% of the field are low on experance, it would be great for F1000 to have a great show instead of a crash-fest, and last but not least......many drivers will be financially extending themselves just to make this event.......they don't need to go home with a bunch of broken parts, and then maybe not even make the next race.
Maybe also hold stations until turn 11 on all restarts as well.
I'm sure that there will be a lot more drivers happy to go home having had a great time, and able to roll their car into the trailer, than a few who want to barrel down the dirty inside line into turn 1, looking to pass 6 other cars .....and taking out 1/2 the field

[Richard Dziak]

Although not racing at COTA or in F1000 after retiring from the class, I would think it will be very difficult to hold any driver back from this track. It is probably the most professional track in the USA. One of the most prestigious tracks that any F1000 car or driver has been on. Keep in mind the track was designed for Formula One (F1) racing machines. Just being on the same track as world class drivers such as Formula One (F1), will certainly be in many drivers minds as they race around this track.

My input would be that any driver entering this race is subject to mechanical damage, body damage and other related problems. Not only will there be new drivers to the class, but you have to figure in an additional 45+ cars on the track.

I am sure that many drivers will be aggressive rather than easy going on this weekend. This will be racing in which attrition will eliminate many cars and drivers.

Only the drivers will tell/feel the mood of the event, the pace of the race, and that will determine the outcome. Most of all, lets hope that everyone can finish the race, without damage or injury, but this is racing. The intensity is sure to build from the time drivers enter the facility the night and days before.

Let the best driver win. It will be very interesting to hear the results and evaluation from the drivers after the event. Hopefully the race will have live timing via the internet.

This will be a "major" event for the SCCA and most likely a thrill of a lifetime for many racers.

As we all know racing these F1000 machines takes money to race them. It is no longer a cheap sport or class. When you have $60,000 + racing machines, the low cost of racing quickly goes away. It's hard to race in events like COTA on a "beer budget".

This will be a top notch event, top notch track facility, and I am quite sure the adrenaline rush will be flowing at a very high level of intensity.

It should be interesting...I look forward to the feedback and comments made here on ApexSpeed after the race, days and weeks after the race.

Drivers enjoy.......what a thrill this will be for you. It will be pure EXCITEMENT.

[Wren]

In Historic F1 Racing at say, Laguna, there is a mandate to ALL the drivers that there is NO-passing until the cars exit turn 4.

That's not racing.

If anyone is really that worried then it should be easy enough to avoid the carnage. The wrecker or checker guys are going to do their thing.

Are any of the manufacturers going to make sure that there are spares available for their competitors at the race?

[stonebridge20]

I typed and deleted 10 different responses to this question trying to find a polite way to give an opinion. I just can't so here it is.

I think you picked the wrong club to race with.

[racerdad2]

My son & I are coming to COTA to watch the racing... This being our first season, I believe many lessons will be learned Here's to close, safe racing !

[SEComposites]

I typed and deleted 10 different responses to this question trying to find a polite way to give an opinion. I just can't so here it is.

I think you picked the wrong club to race with.

[iamuwere]

I'm glad the world still has optimists. I like the start of a race and like having hard run at the start. This just isn't going to happen (although I won't be there to cause trouble).

[RussMcB]

The first thing that popped into my mind was, what if someone was slow off a corner? Would everyone behind need to back off the same amount?

The second thing was, I'm guessing with the abbreviated qualifying, some people testing and some not, there will be fast people towards the back half of the grid. They will be anxious to get up to where they think they belong.

[brownslane]

I typed and deleted 10 different responses to this question trying to find a polite way to give an opinion. I just can't so here it is.

I think you picked the wrong club to race with.

Ditto.

If you are entering the event with these thoughts foremost in your mind, you will more than likely end up in somebody's path with the consequences you fear.

This is NOT the race to attend if you are a newby looking to build your skills. There will be more than one race at COTA; give this one a pass, run your new car in tracks more familiar to you and come back to COTA with more experience under your belt.

If you are committed to attend and are new, slow your qualifying pace, stay at the back of the race for the first couple of laps, then build your speed. Then you will not be in the way of the guys pressing hard, will experience the track, and maybe finish the race.

Remember, nobody is going to hold back and they will not thank you if you collect them. A lot is at stake any time you share the track with others.

Tom

[Northwind]

It's all about good judgement. You're not going to win if you are not there at the end.

[Brett Lane]

Maybe this would be a good time to consider a 110%(or120) qualifying rule. After three or four laps, the back markers will be there anyways. How more strung out can they be with this many cars?

Was going to go, but the boss said nobody takes any time off in March. One of our busiest months. Maybe they did me and a few faster guys a favor.

[JohnPaul]

In light of how many F1000 cars will be racing in Austin, what do people think of everyone holding their qualifying position until they exit turn 11.....

We already do that..... It's called the pace lap.....

[RussMcB]

We already do that..... It's called the pace lap.....

Good one. Where's the Like button. :-).

[Jim Garry]

In addition, there's a helluva lot of runoff room in the esses.

[KodaBear]

Post #1 and post #11 are the most pathetic things I've ever seen on this forum.

[Wren]

Post #1 and post #11 are the most pathetic things I've ever seen on this forum.

Relax.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with post 11 and post 1 is just a different opinion than most.

[Tim FF19]

Respectfully, I don't think Historic 'Racing' is really racing...

If the thought of contact is more than you (or your pocketbook) can bear, perhaps autocross would suit you better.

IMHO:
When the green flag drops, racing should commence!

[TrackBrat]

I think you are going to have to let people race. Holding people back might actually make more issues then solve them. These races could be complete clusters or could be really clean and fun due to all the runoff and track width and such.

I am looking forward to seeing all of you guys racing at the track, hopefully will be put at a good flag station. Now just to see if I have the money to get there.

[Mark_Silverberg]

There is not a requirement that you start the race in your qualifying position. Those who are concerned can get to grid after the one minute warning and start from the back of the grid or from pit lane.

Problem solved.

If you are concerned about people passing you on the first lap the solution is simply to drive faster than them.

[Charles Warner]

Respectfully, I don't think Historic 'Racing' is really racing...

Respectfully, I don't think you know what you are talking about . . . .

In HGP we have a no-passing zone at the beginning of a race due to the value of our cars and the fact that part of our mandate is to provide a good show at the start. The last thing we want is to have a carramboullage at the start and lose the rest of the session while looking like uncontrollable Bozos. However, after the no-passing zone there is plenty of racing and most of us race just as hard as we did/do in the lesser formulae. It's just that we race as gentlemen. We don't lean on each other, punt each other up the derriere, cut people off or weave about like spoiled children who have to win. Watching Danny Baker beat up on Bobby Rahal or Chris Bender, Doc and Arie have a race long battle in a safe but highly competitive manner is a joy. One of the reasons I stopped SCCA racing is the un-sportsmanlike conduct of well over half the field.

If you feel that racing with honor and sportsmanship like gentlemen is not "really racing" then I don't want to be on the track with you.

That said, in Club racing I see no reason to even consider not racing from the drop of the flag. To do otherwise creates a situation that can easily turn into bent metal.

[Daryl DeArman]

Respectfully, I don't think Historic 'Racing' is really racing...

If the thought of contact is more than you (or your pocketbook) can bear, perhaps autocross would suit you better.

IMHO:
When the green flag drops, racing should commence!

(1) Don't race what you can't afford to bring home in pieces.

(2) Advancing by contact isn't good racecraft and generally requires far less skill than driving a historical car fast in close quarters without making contact.

Drivers' meetings that talk about maintaining a "large safety bubble" are absolute horsesheit. If a particular driver is driving an expensive and/or very historically significant car he/she can choose to race/compete accordingly (i.e. parade around at the back and drive with vigor when nobody is within several car lengths/widths) they have control of their wheel and their pedals or drive it like they stole it. Their choice.

[Charles Warner]

(1) Don't race what you can't afford to bring home in pieces.

If a particular driver is driving an expensive and/or very historically significant car he/she can choose to race/compete accordingly (i.e. parade around at the back and drive with vigor when nobody is within several car lengths/widths) they have control of their wheel and their pedals or drive it like they stole it. Their choice.

Spoken like someone that really knows what he is talking about through experience. Rather myopic, really.

[Daryl DeArman]

Spoken like someone that really knows what he is talking about through experience. Rather myopic, really.

Nope never crashed anything I couldn't afford to replace. Some of us are actually capable of learning from others' mistakes, others have to experience them first hand.

If you are racing something you can't afford to replace that is your choice, adjust your risk/reward calculator accordingly, not mine.

[Charles Warner]

If you are racing something you can't afford to replace that is your choice, adjust your risk/reward calculator accordingly, not mine.

There is a distinct and significant difference in being able to replace that which you race and racing with the attitude of not caring whether you damage your car and/or someone elses. And, there's always the danger of physical harm for those of us who consider those things.

[glenn cooper]

it appears that many of ya'll did not/have not read the Hoosier Tire memo concerning CoTA.

[Daryl DeArman]

There is a distinct and significant difference in being able to replace that which you race and racing with the attitude of not caring whether you damage your car and/or someone elses. And, there's always the danger of physical harm for those of us who consider those things.

Holy Cow...I agree with you 100%

[Tim FF19]

Respectfully, I don't think you know what you are talking about . . . .

In HGP we have a no-passing zone at the beginning of a race due to the value of our cars and the fact that part of our mandate is to provide a good show at the start. The last thing we want is to have a carramboullage at the start and lose the rest of the session while looking like uncontrollable Bozos. However, after the no-passing zone there is plenty of racing and most of us race just as hard as we did/do in the lesser formulae. It's just that we race as gentlemen. We don't lean on each other, punt each other up the derriere, cut people off or weave about like spoiled children who have to win. Watching Danny Baker beat up on Bobby Rahal or Chris Bender, Doc and Arie have a race long battle in a safe but highly competitive manner is a joy. One of the reasons I stopped SCCA racing is the un-sportsmanlike conduct of well over half the field.

If you feel that racing with honor and sportsmanship like gentlemen is not "really racing" then I don't want to be on the track with you.

That said, in Club racing I see no reason to even consider not racing from the drop of the flag. To do otherwise creates a situation that can easily turn into bent metal.

Charlie,

I've raced in vintage events in the past and I don't disagree that they can be vigorous. I also do not believe in or condone crashing into each other. I do think that no passing zones may be perfectly acceptable considering the value of the vehicles. If everyone agrees that that is the forum they want to compete in, I have no issue with it. However, I personally think historic / vintage is a bit contrived compared to racing from green flag to checkered flag. As you said, you are there to ‘Put on a Show’, which I know means sometimes keeping things close (when they really are not). It may be an event, but if you are putting on a show, it is not what I call racing.

That being said, I’ve seen huge carnage at those events at times so they are not immune to poor driving, unsportsmanlike conduct or contact anyway, it just costs more to fix em.


Tim Dunn

[chrisw52]

asking everyone in a non-historic race to hold off until a certain point is like asking an autocrosser to stay at least 6" away from all apex cones to make it easier on the workers out on track.

not gonna happen any time soon...

[Thomas Copeland]

Good point Glenn. Perhaps some of you guys should read it.

http://www.hoosiertire.com/pdfs/COTAtires.pdf

[chrisw52]

Good point Glenn. Perhaps some of you guys should read it.

http://www.hoosiertire.com/pdfs/COTAtires.pdf

honestly, if that is a real concern for hoosier, then run an extra pace lap or two, or run the first lap or two under caution. that needs to be decided by the race organizers. If hoosier thinks this is a safety issue, then they are responsible for bringing this in front of the safety steward.

A gentlemen's agreement to not compete until a agreed upon corner is not racing and won't work. If I saw this as a spectator, I would be

[Brian.Novak]

I'd never do that. Ever.

On second thought, SURE!! Go ahead. Should make passing on the first lap easier.

[Daryl DeArman]

In Historic F1 Racing at say, Laguna, there is a mandate to ALL the drivers that there is NO-passing until the cars exit turn 4.
In light of how many F1000 cars will be racing in Austin, what do people think of everyone holding their qualifying position until they exit turn 11.....the hairpin at the far end of the track.

Is there an option to just throw the green at the exit of 11?

[Marshall Mauney]

honestly, if that is a real concern for hoosier, then run an extra pace lap or two, or run the first lap or two under caution. that needs to be decided by the race organizers. If hoosier thinks this is a safety issue, then they are responsible for bringing this in front of the safety steward.

A gentlemen's agreement to not compete until a agreed upon corner is not racing and won't work. If I saw this as a spectator, I would be

I don't think Hoosier called this a safety issue - they're just talking about graining, which is a performance issue.


The other option would be for everyone running Hoosiers to pull into the pits after the pace lap as a protest.....but I can't imagine that ever happening.......

[wannabe]

What a great term. It would seem to me that if you read the supps and after you see the excessive number of cars in the race that you would realize the chances of mayhem are more than 50%. If you choose to go ahead with your decision, why would you complain or even suggest they alter the rules to accomodate your own fears. Just don't race. There will be plenty of other times when the excessive number of cars don't show up that you can race on this track..

[Tim FF19]

'you would realize the chances of mayhem are more than 50%'

Based on what? Large groups? Large groups in and of themselves do not cause 'mayhem'. I have started plenty of races with large car counts (40+) sometimes with mixed groups, sometimes single class and most of the time they go off without serious incident.

I predict that the amount of incidents or crashes at COTA will be no more than is typical of an average race weekend.

[stonebridge20]

Man,.......You guys got cabin fever!

[glenn cooper]

You rang?

[LLoshak]

This will be my first time in a FB, but I'll be honest, I'll be going for every inch... But always respectful and cautious.

Im going to COTA (and FB for that matter)... To race. And starting the race at turn 11 will be no safer than start finish. Corner 1 at every track is always risky, doesnt matter the track. And corner 12, right after a green, would be a corner 1, so doesnt matter if its corner 12 or 1 or whatever.

We are national racers, that should have national experience, attending a national super tour event at COTA baby!! We all just need to keep in mind there is no million dollar prize and we all have families that love us. Yes, I will race hard and only go for pole, a track record and a win... Without taking any unnecessary risks.

Corner one will be as interesting as corner 1 at RA during the runoffs. Then followed by very fast, some flat out esses with some with slight braking/down a gear... Dancing on the limit of adhesion. This my friends, is not a good place to pass, unless you are 1000% sure and confident of the other driver you're about to attempt that with.

The best thing is, its a F1 track. There is plenty of offline concrete to save the car, but with that said, we all must be careful reentering too.

Although I do agree, this isnt the weekend to be apart of if you know you're going to be totally off pace (its a VERY fast/rhythm track). There will be regioanls and more events at COTA. If you can wait, great. If not, well, it is club racing and everyone is welcome.

Friday is all practice. Lets learn the track, be respectful of others time and investment... Watch mirrors, let fast guys by, be patient and remember, its practice.

I'll be shocked if it wont be a split start (open wheel and SR's). And I have also read somewhere, the 120% qualifying rule WILL be enforced.

One thing I can assure everyone, this weekend will be EPIC!

Have we decided on a night to get together? I'd sure like to meet everyone.

[racerdad2]

Well said, Lawrence. Truly an historic event. I'm fortunate that my son & I will be able to attend. Getting my competition license in April, will work at getting my Regional & National licenses because COTA is on the bucket list What a fantastic opportunity for North American Racers !!! We are all truly blessed...

[jaltaman]

Lawrence, that was very well put. It is going to be an epic event, and having been there for the F1 weekend it only amplifies the anticipation.

Welcome to FB, by the way. Your reputation precedes you, and we are happy to have you join the ranks.

I think your idea of a get-together is a good one. Not sure if Thomas, Nicholas and Mike have something in mind, but if not we should definitely try to arrange a group get-together.

Let's see, there's 28 drivers registered, plus crew and friends/family, so we'd need to get a place that can handle a group of 75-100 people or so. Quite the FB gathering!

Schedule-wise, would Friday night be the best bet? There's an SCCA BBQ Saturday night, hence the thought.

Anyone have any suggestions as to pulling this off? It would be great to have a beer with everyone.