Which Harness do you like?

[kflyer]

I need to purchase a new set of belts this week and would like to know which brand is preferred for the FM. I would like a set that does not have the lap adjuster as it dug into my pelvis on the car a rented in October. I've been thinking Schroth or Willans? Should I get them with the Hans 2" shoulder belts? Thanks -Kevin

[a. pettipas]

This is it... 2" lap, no adjusters and HANS shoulders
http://www.apexperformance.net/prod-1579.htm

[RussMcB]

I've always like Willans.

I've been hearing good things about 2" lap belts.

[brownslane]

I love my Willans. Have them in all three cars we run. Silverstones are not cheap, but they are great quality. I have heard good things from Schroth as well. No personal experience with them, though.
Best, Tom

[mikey]

OMP 807 Formula belts. They're 3", except 2" at the top of the shoulder belts for HANS and 2" on the sub belts between your legs.

http://www.apexperformance.net/prod-2029.htm

[kflyer]

This is it... 2" lap, no adjusters and HANS shoulders
http://www.apexperformance.net/prod-1579.htm

Thanks for the link! I'm leaning towards these. Does anyone know if these will bolt right into the FM? (Bracket holes large enough)

[a. pettipas]

Schroth has bushings of various ID that reduce the 1/2" mounting bracket holes down to whatever size your chassis requires, prob 3/8 or 7/16. These bushes also allow the lap belt brackets to freely pivot which helps with the orientation of the webbing over your hips. I use these belts with no bushings as my lap brackets have smaller (<1/2") holes and are fixed-position.

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...-brackets#2470

[sflaten]

I have used the Crow belts. They are reasonably priced, and they can be rewebbed instead of having to purchase a full set (think it was about $75). They also will set it up with whatever custom buckles etc you need. I had them "dogbone" the shoulders so it fits the HANS. Just another option to consider.

[a. pettipas]

If you go with Schroth or OMP get in touch with Linda or Clarke at Apex Performance.

http://apexperformance.net/

[kflyer]

If you go with Schroth or OMP get in touch with Linda or Clarke at Apex Performance.

http://apexperformance.net/

Thanks again! I just ordered a set of Schroth Formula Hans belts from ApexSpeed.net. I will post pics when they are installed. -Kevin

[dalz]

I'm behind here...2" lap belts? I thought lap belts were critical for their spreading of force over maximum area, and narrower belts would be a regression. There must be more to it than that, or new thinking behind it.

Of course, with modern materials strength wouldn't be a concern, even if they wanted to go narrower.

[Purple Frog]

Dalz,
When folks speak of 2" belts, they are usually refering to the part of the shoulder belts that lays on top of the HANS device.

[kflyer]

Dalz,
When folks speak of 2" belts, they are usually refering to the part of the shoulder belts that lays on top of the HANS device.

I ordered the Schroth with the 2" lap belts (better fit) AND the 2"/3" Hans shoulder belts as well. My understanding is the 2 inch lap belts are FIA approved. -Kevin

[kflyer]

From Schroth website:

"The Profi II Formula HANS features the 2" lap belt as well. The main premise behind the 2" lap belt is one of added safety. A 2" belt rides within the crest of the human pelvis where a 3" belt would rest on the edges. This allows you to get the belt up to an inch and a half tighter. That means the lap belt will be working earlier in the accident event because it gets loaded faster. It's also more comfortable and easier to adjust becuase there's less friction through the adjuster."

http://www.schrothracing.com/competi...ula/formula-II

[dalz]

Thanks Kevin. That's very interesting. I'm chronically unhappy with my lap belt--it seems like it's never tight enough. Got to have the boss look into this....

[MosesSmithRacing]

Dale,

Check your belt placement. If you sit forward enough you will need to use the forward mount holes for the lap belts. Lap belts should hold you DOWN in the car not Back. Of course there will most likely always be some angle back, but the lap belts need to hold you DOWN.

Sometimes, if the angle you are sitting at is not reclined enough, the "buckle" may find it self in a less than comfortable position. This can sometimes be the case for some of our bigger competitors. Two things are important in this situation, First, you will want a camlock that "un-buckles" by the method of rotating. Some of the lift latch type buckles, could inadvertently come unbuckled. Belt manufacturers will deny this claim, and I have not seen it happen, but I feel as though those type of belts are better suited for an upright seating position, like in a Sedan, or Stock car. Second, I really dont care if it is uncomfortable. The lap belts need to hold you DOWN in the car. So if in doing so, they are a little uncomfortable, then oh well.

One way that is kind of a dead give away that the lap belts arent doing the best job that they can is, when you tighten your shoulder belts, and it feels like that action is lifting the lap belt up from your waist, then the lap belts may have to much angle to the back and not enough DOWNward angle. Or if you rely on your sub belts to hold the lap belt in place, probably to much angle to the back.

Hope this helps...

Moses

[racerdad2]

Thx Moses ! & the rest of you guys ! Great info... Thx Apex !

[dalz]

Thanks for the info Moses.

I'm pretty reclined and low in Jason's cars, as low as I have ever been in an FM. Originally my lap belt was in the rearward mount, but it was much better in the foward one. My seat fits well, I don't like a lot of hip and leg support, just a good mega-tight lap belt clamping me to the tub. I tell Rudy, If you and I together can get it closed, it's not too tight! I'm not all that skinny anymore, but my narrow hips might compound any tightness problems. We've come a long way with my comfort in the car, I was just wondering if these narrow lap belts might be the next level. Thanks again!

[Raceworks]

I ordered the Schroth with the 2" lap belts (better fit) AND the 2"/3" Hans shoulder belts as well. My understanding is the 2 inch lap belts are FIA approved. -Kevin

From experience the 2" lap belt fits better as well.

[Raceworks]

Dale,
Sometimes, if the angle you are sitting at is not reclined enough, the "buckle" may find it self in a less than comfortable position. This can sometimes be the case for some of our bigger competitors. Two things are important in this situation, First, you will want a camlock that "un-buckles" by the method of rotating. Some of the lift latch type buckles, could inadvertently come unbuckled. Belt manufacturers will deny this claim, and I have not seen it happen, but I feel as though those type of belts are better suited for an upright seating position, like in a Sedan, or Stock car. Second, I really dont care if it is uncomfortable. The lap belts need to hold you DOWN in the car. So if in doing so, they are a little uncomfortable, then oh well.

Also, that stuff needs to be TIGHT. Of the many features I've always liked about Schroth belts are the built-in grip-handles that facilitate this. I also prefer belt systems that have lap-belt adjusters over the fixed lap belts that are popular for this reason. It's very hard to get a fixed lap tight enough and be able to buckle it.

As far as brands, my first preference is Schorth (and full disclosure, I'm a dealer), but I also like Willians for webbing hardware quality even if they lack some of the features I like. OMP, Sabelt, & Simpson's "Platinum" line are also pretty good. In general I favor polyester webbing over standard nylon: you can custom tailor polyester with different elongation rates. Ideally you want a relatively rigid lap belt and stretchier shoulder belts. I've had experience with all of them as well as others.

I absolutely would not use any of the "low budget" brands in a purpose-built race car. I don't believe the webbing quality is as good, and some brands have absolutely crappy hardware. One brand that will remain nameless I used in my early racing days had such sub-standard adjusters I had to re-tighten the shoulder belts every 2-3 laps racing my ITB Scirocco.

[kflyer]

Below is the harness installed. The quality is top knotch. I am concerned about the MSD box and the head padding though. Anyone have any issues with the Hans Device getting hung up on either one? Do the push your helmet forward?

[kea]

I'd have an issue with the MSD box even without a H&N. It looks like the location of the box could be at the base of your neck and all I can think about is what happens if you spun and backed into a wall without that device.
Maybe the H&N is a good thing.
Can you move it?

[Raceworks]

Below is the harness installed. The quality is top knotch. I am concerned about the MSD box and the head padding though. Anyone have any issues with the Hans Device getting hung up on either one? Do the push your helmet forward?

I've seen a lot of people mount the MSD boxes there, I think it's because they're worried about the heat in the engine bay. Personally, I've prepped cars that had the boxes both ways and that MSD box doesn't seem to get any less crappy if its mounted in the cockpit or the engine bay.

Moving it should be fairly easy, and you don't have to worry about H&N restraint interference or your helmet hitting a rigid object in a rear-end collision.

[sflaten]

You might want to check with Moses on a different pad. The one Ihave has a lop that hangs down and covers the MSD. Easy access but have never had any issue with the HANS getting hung up. I'm about 6'-1" and sit rather high in the car. Also using a 30 degree HANS. One thing that I did find is the shoulder strap would pop off the HANS on my left side (the track I am at most is a lot of right hand turns. Moses suggested that I move teh shoulder harness attachment points 1" toward the center on each side. Had that done and it solved all the problems. Also have the shoulders dog boned to 2" to stay in the HANS pad better.

[DanW]

Also, that stuff needs to be TIGHT. Of the many features I've always liked about Schroth belts are the built-in grip-handles that facilitate this. I also prefer belt systems that have lap-belt adjusters over the fixed lap belts that are popular for this reason. It's very hard to get a fixed lap tight enough and be able to buckle it.......

Time for me to replace my Willans Club 6 set.

Most of the formula car harness sets feature bolt in pinch plates to set the belt length with a a pair of wrenches. What belts have lap belt pull up adjusters so we can get the lap belts tight enough? Do the adjusters cause problems?

I found the OMP 807 and 811 belts have an adjustable pull up. Anyone have experience with these? Any other alternatives?

Thanks.

[kea]

I my experience, single seaters drivers cockpit areas are too cramped for lap adjusters and in some cases, they can not be tensioned properly.

[iamuwere]

Interesting that people have a hard time with the adjusters. In both my KBS f500 and the FE, I am able to buckle and tighten myself into the car. I couldn't do it without adjustable lap belts. I need that slack to get all buckled in and the I tighten from there.

[racerdad2]

It all depends on driver / cockpit size. I prefer adjusters to compensate for my variable ballast....

[iamuwere]

And I forgot that I manage to do those buckles at 6'3".

[a. pettipas]

I ran a Sabelt harness in my last VD (RF00 FC), 3" laps with adjusters and no problems with getting them tight, and I like to tighten to the point of near-discomfort. That being said, I prefer the 2" laps and no adjusters of my current Schroth set-up.

[dalz]

A looks like several of the Schroth belts, including the Formula model with 2" lap belts, can be ordered with or without adjusters as you please. I wouldn't mind trying them again. The last time I had them was on the old Skip Barber cars, and as bad as those antique nylon belts were, you could get those babys TIGHT.
I understand about space issues but the Schroth hardware looks pretty efficient and 2" might help with those problems.

[DanW]

Thank you all for the replies.

Most of the time I am at the track solo, so I am belting myownself in. I believe I can get belted in much tighter and held down better with pull up adjusters. At least my Z10 has lots of room compared to more modern cars.

Most of the belts offered with adjusters are furnished with "Snap in" fittings and an eye bolt. I am concerned with the bulk or contact with the snap in fittings, but believe I figured out a way to make them work.

I was originally looking for pull up adjustable with bolt in plates. I haven't seen any furnished that way.

Thanks again!

[a. pettipas]

I was originally looking for pull up adjustable with bolt in plates. I haven't seen any furnished that way.

The Sabelt harness I had fit this description, purchased from Primus Racing Parts.

[DanW]

Thanks AP!

[Roux]

I typically adjust the lap belt to be very tight when I install it (Schrott) and then when I am belting myself in I take a piece of strap with an eye sewed into one end. I pass the eye end of the strap through the left side sub belt buckle, then across my lap and through the right side sub belt buckle. Now you take the remaining long end of the strap and pass it through the eye. with my left hand I pull up hard on the tail end of the strap and this cinches the two belt ends together because the two lap belt subs strap buckles are drawn towards each other. You may need to adjust the position of that strap and its eye once or twice to get the maximum gain. Now comes a dexterity test to get the lapbelt tang poked into the buckle. My right hand seems to have learned to do this task quite well. Now you undo the strap and stuff it under your thigh so that you can use it on track in the case of a DNF and tow in situation assuming you have popped the belts to get out of the car. With this method I am able to achieve maximum lapbelt tension and I even use it if I have someone belting me in. I have used it in the Royale and the Wyvern. Once the lapbelt is good and tight you go ahead with the rest of the belting in procedure

The strap is a piece of a very cheap 3/4 inch cargo strap ( Harbor Freight ) made probably of Nylon or some other synthetic webbing that has very low friction to itself and also to the steel harness hardware

If my description is not clear enough let me know and I will try to make it clearer

steve

[DanW]

Thanks Steve,

I had not thought of that. I will give it a try with my existing belts and see how it works.

[Frank C]

For those adding a HANS device one belt parameter that can be problematic is the length from the shoulder belt mount to the adjuster. Starting to use a HANS last year with my Willans belts, I found that the greater bulk of the HANS moved the shoulder belt adjusters up to my shoulders to the point that they fouled the bottom of my helmet. The Willlans HANS specific belts have a greater length from the bolt-in mount to the adjuster. A problem that was difficult for someone cheap like me was that in replacing belts, one cannot just replace the shoulder belts. I had to replace the whole set.

I used lap belts with pull-up adjusters in my previous car, a VD RF81 CF. There was plenty of room, as in your Zink, Dan. However my current DB1 does not have enough room for adjusters., at least for me. I tried a new set of belts with adjusters and they dug into me.

- Frank C

[DanW]

For those adding a HANS device one belt parameter that can be problematic is the length from the shoulder belt mount to the adjuster. Starting to use a HANS last year with my Willans belts, I found that the greater bulk of the HANS moved the shoulder belt adjusters up to my shoulders to the point that they fouled the bottom of my helmet. The Willlans HANS specific belts have a greater length from the bolt-in mount to the adjuster. A problem that was difficult for someone cheap like me was that in replacing belts, one cannot just replace the shoulder belts. I had to replace the whole set.

I used lap belts with pull-up adjusters in my previous car, a VD RF81 CF. There ws plenty of room, as in your Zink, Dan. However my current DB1 does not have enough room for adjusters., at least for me. I tried a new set of belts with adjusters and they dug into me.

- Frank C

Frank, thanks for the above and the PM. As far as helmets and adjuster clearance, some people have removed the trim from the bottom edge of their helmets and ground some of the shell away to make clearance.

I wish I had done that with my Bieffe F1GP.

Dan

[Frank C]

I (stupidly) used the non-HANS belts through the season, but my concern was that in an incident in which I needed the HANS the adjusters would interfere with movement of the helmet. I did not think this would be good. The adjusters did not touch the helmet but were close.
- Frank