Indy Lights as an FS in SCCA

[Scott Dick]

I was curious if my 1997 Indy Lights can run a National SCCA event as an FS. I don't care about points just wanting to run.
Thanks for any input.
Happy New Year
Scott Dick

[Bill Bonow]

Scott,

Two major issues, 1) FS is a "Regional Only" class, so it may only be possible in a "Rational" that specifically allowed FS in the event supps. 2) The car will need to be homologated in FS. If it is a carbon tub car, you'll need FIA crash test results documentation to get FS homologation completed.

Also remember that come 2014, all bets are off on "Nationals".

So, if your thinking of a specific SCCA National in 2013, then I'd bet the answer is about 99.9999% no.

I would contact SCCA Topeka Club Racing Technical Dept. to be certain on how/what will need to be done to race the car in FS.

[Stan Clayton]

Scott, while Bill is technically correct, let me give you a bit more positive answer. SCCA has homologated Indy Lights cars in the past without an actual copy of the FIA paperwork so long as it was one of the recognized cars (March, etc.). You can contact the technical department (ask for John Bauer) on 800-770-2055 after the 1st (I think the office is closed until then).

Second, as Bill notes, FS cars are not normally invited to National races, but they are usually welcome at Regional races (and some "Rationals"). Contact the SCCA Region hosting the event you are interested in to ensure FS cars are included, and to register for the event.

Finally, it is also common for Regions to allow cars undergoing homologation to participate in events. Be sure your seat belts and other safety equipment are up to date, and that you have a log book (can be issued at the track...ask the Region when you contact them).

A nicely turned out car and an entry fee open many doors...

[Darryl Wills]

We have a couple of Indy Lights and have talked about running Regionals in 2014...But, the speed difference between you and the rest of the field is going to be tremendous... We have FMs(one of the slower classes in wings and things) and have had eye opening experiences with the slower entries because of closing rates and corner speeds. In some races you will be lapping the tail end of the field every 4 laps or so...

[Bill Bonow]

SCCA has homologated Indy Lights cars in the past without an actual copy of the FIA paperwork so long as it was one of the recognized cars (March, etc.).

Stan,

Sorry, didn't mean to be a negative nilly. The dog woke me up at 2:00am wanting a walk and thought I'd get a little Apex'n in before returning to my slumber.

From his post, Scott sure sounded like he was looking to go to one specific National. I tried to answer accordingly.

I was just going off the words as written in the GCR. Seems that with the rules containing statements like "There are no exceptions", it may be wise to add a list of pre-approved chassis or a note stating to check with Club Racing Technical in Topeka for various production chassis test results they have on file.

Here is what I found in the current GCR:

G.2. Chassis/Frame

Chassis/frame construction is unrestricted within the following limitations:

A. Chassis of non-metallic composite construction shall be proven to
meet FIA specifications for non-metallic composite chassis prior
to being submitted to the SCCA for homologation. There are no
exceptions. Contact SCCA National Office for a list of the relevant
FIA specifications/SCCA requirements.

B. Chassis of metallic tube and/or metallic monocoque construction
shall be manufactured to be consistent with the safety requirements

outlined within these rules and the GCR.

[KevinFirlein]

The DC Region has had several Indy Lights cars compete in FS including the very 1st one that was let in by ' mistake' that opened the door for the others to race their Lights cars with SCCA. But as the othersw said they are regional only cars.

[Scott Dick]

Thanks Guys for the informative information. I also have another question that concerns test days before a regional or National. I do have an SCCA National License and will mostly run Vintage Races with HSR and SRVA. My question is: Since the track day before an event is usually a separate paid event to the Track, Do you think they care if a Lights Car shows up ?
For guys like Kevin that know me, My car is prepped and maintained very well and does have an HSR Log Book. I will try calling SCCA and see where they stand after the first of the year.
Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I appreciate it.
Happy New Year
Scott Dick

[Scott Dick]

I forgot to mention it is a Lola 97/20 Chassis. One of the Team Kool Green cars.

[racerdad2]

GREEN with envy

[Bill Bonow]

Since the track day before an event is usually a separate paid event to the Track, Do you think they care if a Lights Car shows up ?

As you noted, test days prior to SCCA races are typically hosted and sanctioned by the track (typically, not always).

I have seen it many times where cars (non-SCCA homologated or classified) participate in the pre-event test day and leave at the end of the day. In these situations, the track officials make the call on what is allowed or not.

I think that a clean, well prepped car and some type of documentation (log book or similar), I'd bet you could run a pre-SCCA event test day without too much hassle. I would certainly want to check with the host track prior to showing up.

The only warning that may be given is based on Darryl's comments. You've got a very fast car. Most likely it has the potential to be the fastest thing on the track. Test days will be typically (2) race groups. open wheel and closed wheel. In that situation, you could very well be on the track with potential novice drivers in cars like FV which will seem like it is parked in the middle of the track as you drive passed. The speed differential could be huge/dangerous.

Maybe just rent an FC (or similar) and go run a National or two?

[Scott Dick]

Thanks Bill. I did run Formula 2000 for 10 years. I absolutely agree the closure rate on slower cars would be dangerous. I wouldn't want another car come flying up on me, so I would give them the same consideration.
It would just be seat time not race time.
Thanks
Scott

[Jerry Kehoe]

My experience a few years ago regarding SCCA and homologation was a joke. The FIA would not even respond to SCCA to even answer a question or provide test results. Never mind the model won the FIA F3000 championship in 87 when it was built. I finally gave up and went Vintage racing, a lot less BS, less wanabe chiefs, common sense,etc.

[mousecatcher]

Depends on the track, you'll have to ask. Out west I have seen pre-vintage event test days where only race entrants are allowed. Mostly though it's anyone with a license and a (self-certified) track ready car.

Thanks Guys for the informative information. I also have another question that concerns test days before a regional or National. I do have an SCCA National License and will mostly run Vintage Races with HSR and SRVA. My question is: Since the track day before an event is usually a separate paid event to the Track, Do you think they care if a Lights Car shows up ?
For guys like Kevin that know me, My car is prepped and maintained very well and does have an HSR Log Book. I will try calling SCCA and see where they stand after the first of the year.
Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I appreciate it.
Happy New Year
Scott Dick

[Rick Kirchner]

Depends on the track, you'll have to ask. Out west I have seen pre-vintage event test days where only race entrants are allowed. Mostly though it's anyone with a license and a (self-certified) track ready car.

Let me guess - CSRG?

[KevinFirlein]

Scott I know at Summit its no problem. Just need the SCCA license. We have had guys test LMP cars at tesst days.

edit once in a while they do enforce the scca sound levels on the test days. They normally dont but if there is a car that is obviously loud they break out the hand held decibel meter.

[Scott Dick]

Thanks Kevin. I appreciate the heads up.
I will email you a picture of the car.

[Terry Hanushek]

At NJMP, SCCA runs the test days prior to SCCA race weekends. All you need is an acceptable license and a car that meets the SCCA safety requirements ... oh and the test fee. Indy Light cars certainly qualify.

Indy Light cars meet the requirements for FS and are welcome at all NJMP regional events. We have not seen any Indy Lights but have has FS cars.

Terry

[Scott Dick]

Thanks Terry.

[b.reed]

Scott, If you ever run the Lights car at IRP let me know Id like to see the car...Id even turn some laps if you like!

[mousecatcher]

Let me guess - CSRG?

I don't recall, but yeah that sounds likely.

[Euro Ford Fan]

You might check to determine if your region has a vintage class/involvement. Central Florida does. The class does not distinguish groups within Vintage, so you have classic FV's racing with Porsche's. sports racers, Vettes and TransAm cars. I have run with Lola T70's, Audi LMPs and Nissan GTP cars at Sebring. Yes the closing speeds are mind-boggling, but if you're fore-warned, you're fore-armed. Heads-up driving is even more of a requirement.

I used to help manage Indy Lights programs and am familiar with both the March and the Lola variants. I'd be delighted to see them again - great torque out of that V6 Buick, so, awesome out of the corners. A good friend drove both Lights cars and is now getting back into the mix with an F2000 car. Find a way to get that thoroughbred on track!

[jwr914]

As a track owner and manager, I can assure you that if you show up on a track test day with a check that doesn't bounce, behave yourself, and have proper safety gear for the day you can run.

We don't like people over driving and going off course and we don't like overly aggressive drivers. Mainly because we don't want any down time or schedule interruptions that cause the other participants to whine. And i personally don't want to clean up blown engines so if you start smoking, you're coming in. Other than that, pay your fee and have a great time.

James Rogerson
MSR Houston
FF and FA as well as several tin tops.

[Scott Dick]

Thanks guys.
Scott

[sanchef]

Hello Scott,
Yeap that would be me.
I was the first to have three Indy Lights T97/20 homologated into SCCA FS.
Some say my cars were allowed by mistake with tongue in cheek I hope.
Others say "they" were outmaneuvered .
I say I provided all the information that was required and after a lot of analysis the technical staff and the comp board experts concluded , the cars fit the parameters and were allowed in.
I have been known to bring some unusual cars to the track, not because I like the bureaucratic challenge but because that?s what I own and I like the SCCA platform.
I don't pretend to be an expert in this matter but I did survive to fight another day and I will help you in any way I can.
In my opinion more entries of well placed safe cars is always better.
Once homologated the DC region (Summit Point ) was very accommodating and seemed genuinely glad the cars were there and recognized the cars brought added interest to a dwindling field.
As they say in Alaska, " Come on in the water is fine."
Frank

[Scott Dick]

Hi Frank,
Thanks so much for the information. Do you still have the 3 97/20 cars.
Can you send me your email address. I have a few other questions.
Thanks Scott Dick
Sd27@cinci.rr.com
513-520-5535

[Steve Demeter]

Seeing that a 75 liter McClaren with the proper safety upgrades is legal in regionals, why should the question of speed differential even come into play.

[R. Pare]

I was the first to have three Indy Lights T97/20 homologated into SCCA FS.
Some say my cars were allowed by mistake with tongue in cheek I hope.
Others say "they" were outmaneuvered .
Frank

Actually, when FS was first introduced, there was some sort of performance limit that they either wanted to institute, or actually did (don't remember which since i wasn't paying that much attention) expressly to not allow Indy Lights cars and others of that performance level ( and Indy Lights was actually mentioned). No clue as to what went on after that.

[formulasuper]

Actually, when FS was first introduced, there was some sort of performance limit that they either wanted to institute, or actually did (don't remember which since i wasn't paying that much attention) expressly to not allow Indy Lights cars and others of that performance level ( and Indy Lights was actually mentioned). No clue as to what went on after that.

Originally FS also had a max weight limit, however it somehow disappeared also.

[Jerry Kehoe]

Typical SCCA BS.

[KevinFirlein]

actually it wasnt intended to be BS. there are places where they run all open wheelers together in 1 group and the fear was a F1 car on track with a FV. Suddenly you start to get the original reasoning whether it was flawed or not there was a purpose behind it.

[Jerry Kehoe]

Where it was run out here the group it would run in was FA,FC, ASR,CSR,DSR. Never would FV be put in this group. Having run a few practice sessions when FV's were on the track it was not a problem, after all aren't people supposed to be actually trained,skilled drivers?

[KevinFirlein]

of course we are, although right now JR2 is at home after getting a life flight out of Sebring from a FF/FV tripping over each other. Let alone a F1 / FV collision. As I sais that was the original reason for not allowing the bigger cars in. Frank got in Lights cars in and since then common sense as prevailed. It doesnt mean there was something to think about when the class waqs created and all that it could possiblt allow in. IF a F1 and FV car tangled this website would get so much action it would damn near crash the entire internet as everyone bitched at how stupid it was to allow such cars on track together. Hell most here dont think FC and FM are a safe combo based on the postings after every race during the season when they are combined.

[Jerry Kehoe]

Maybe there should only be one person on the track at the same time based on your argument. There have been plenty of disasters between cars of the same class! Sure speed differential is a possible factor, but only one. Then why are GT1 cars running with GT3s? More mass, speed differential and no prior logic from SCCA and this has gone on for 30-40 years!

[KevinFirlein]

Jesus you obviously know nothing about me and havent bothered to do any research. You said it was typical SCCA BS and I told you why the rule was there since it seems from you statements you didnt pay much attention to the class when it was 1st created. Of course if you read the GCR you will notice there are specific classes that are mentioned that should be avoided grouping together if at all possible. GT1 and GTL are one of them. that came about after a GT5 ( now GTL) driver spun at Road America and was killed instantly when the GT1 car aproaching just plowed into the little mini cooper. But please keep your misconceptions about me going since I am the guy usually getting yelled at for saying racing is racing just deal with it , which youu'd know if you did your research.

[Bill Bonow]

The last 6 posts have nothing to do with the OP's questions, which have been asked and answered. This thread is closed.