Which Chassis?

[bdm]

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]I'm new to wings and things, coming from SRF, and I see several chassis that look like top of the line such as Stohr, Phoenix, Firman, Citation, etc. Is there one chassis that is favored over the others in regards to competitiveness, cost to operate, etc. Is one better aerodynamically; one produce better down force, one have less drag, etc, etc. I'm sure each one has its pro's and con's.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]

[FONT=Verdana]Thanks[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Doug[/FONT]
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[RobLav]

If you are coming from SRF, I recommend a Formula F chassis - probably a Van Diemen. Get up to speed in FF before going into FB.

[bdm]

Thanks Rob. Thanks for your response and your time.

I'll keep it in mind. I origianlly came from Go Karts so I'm somewhat use to open wheel.

Doug

[RobLav]

Sure Doug - well then I guess you can buy my Citation!

[RussMcB]

Pretty much they are all very good. I can't think of any that should be avoided. Rob's car is worth considering because the Citations in FB trim (especially Brandon's), have been fast.

My favorite turn-key F1000 is the Phoenix. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but everything about it just seems right.

[Wren]

You will never get an honest answer to this question on the forums. Everyone is too nice. There is a big difference in the chassis available and people have made some bad purchases based on the belief that they are all ok.

[RussMcB]

You calling me a liar?

[Wren]

Just too nice.

[starkejt]

Just too nice.

What's your excuse then? You're definitely not too nice.

[BURKY]

Wren, What do you consider a bad purchase and why?


Mike

[drdestructo]

Reread post #5 and #6.

Both are spot on!

[Wren]

Wren, What do you consider a bad purchase and why?


Mike

Even I'm too nice to answer this one. I answered it once for someone in person and the next season they were driving one of the cars I said. I felt bad.

I will say that I think the results show the Citations to be best. But there are only two and neither is for sale.

[Purple Frog]

If i were building (not purchasing a turnkey) a FB car, i think the results from the past couple of years easily point to my answer; Citation.

The dilemma is (1) becoming accepted by the Citation Co-Op to be a Citation owner, (2) then trying to get all the Co-Op members to schedule building all the parts it takes to build one... within this decade. The third issue is that of ramping up (or purchasing) enough engineering skills to properly set-up and test the completed car.

Short of that, I would go with NovaCar, or if i could talk Sievenpiper out of retirement, a custom Piper.

So far i only have the hat.

[starkejt]

Co-op members have an embroidered tee to match the hat.

[Wren]

To really be in you have to have the shirt with it embroidered on the breast and the manufacturing error shirt with the logo on the arm.

[starkejt]

And join together to form a Voltron-esque juggernaut of rules-making conspiracy.

[JohnPaul]

Since I was lucky enough to buy a badas* turnkey Citation I don't know how difficult it is to build but I can tell you that getting parts is not in the slightest an issue. You can get just about anything with a phone call, text or an email within a few days. And as far as set up support, question etc, the Citation gang it is second to none. It's like having your own engineering team available at all times. Oh and the car is super fast and handles like a dream. It's a great car and I'm never going to sell it!

The cars I like the best other than Citation in no particular order are: Phoenix, Piper, JDR, VD conversions. Smallest and lightest are the best.

[KenT]

I think the Citation posse is kind of like that sister wives show. I guess Steve is the leader and all the Wrens and Robs of the group are the wives that share everything and take care of the kids. In retrospect, that was a very weird visual. Nevermind.

I think the Piper is a really cool, extremely well executed piece of engineering. It won a championship too. The conversions benefit from a long history of chassis and aero development that really give them a leg up. Someday there will be a new design monster, but evidence shows (race wins, trap speeds at the Runoffs, etc) that a conversion type car is a great way to go.

[DonArm]

My choice after 2 years of researching, was, well you can see my Avatar.
Parts are not a problem anymore, and there are multiple LARGE brains behind engineering the car, with many many years of engineering experience. And the results over the years speaks for itself, multiple SCCA National Championships.
Build or buy a Citation you won't be sorry. If you have the time and resources build, if not Rob's car is available for purchase and will get you on the track next season.
Oh, btw, the chassis never gets old. Dave W. is driving one from 1994 with updates and he is still very competitive in the F2000 Pro Series.

[Brett Lane]

Doug,

You live in Florida- Just show up at either or both of the winter Nats. Between Sebring and PBIR, just about all the different manufacterers will be represented.

Check them out, talk to some owners and see for yourself...

[bdm]

Thanks Brett,

I plan on being at Sebring. I'll look you guys up.

Thanks again for everyones time.

Doug

[Dennis Valet]

I would look through the classifieds here. See what some chassis are going for today. Then compare them to what they cost brand new just a few years ago.

Don't buy those cars if you are looking for the best of the best. Surely buy if you are looking for great value and don't want necessarily need the "best", but the price tells the story.

[Rick Ross]

You will never get an honest answer to this question on the forums. Everyone is too nice. There is a big difference in the chassis available and people have made some bad purchases based on the belief that they are all ok.

I agree with Wren on this one.

If I was going to buy a purpose built FB chassis it would be a new Phoenix. Otherwise I would go with a conversion car.......Citation, VD, or Piper.

[Richard Dziak]

My input......

When I first choose to race within the F1000 class, I ultimately decided to employ Phoenix RaceWorks to build me a new custom F1000.....no regrets....that was the year 2007. It was a turnkey build. They built it, they delivered it, I raced it, plain and simple. The car was fantastic.

Back in 2007, I was able to have the brand new custom build for about $42,000, with everything I wanted on the car, delivered to my home garage by Phoenix RaceWorks. Today costs are in excess of $52,000 for a new build and that might be considered a good value.

Back in 2007, the class was very new and few F1000's existed. Today, the class has grown and there is a turnover of F1000 race cars on the secondary (used) market.

First, I would attend a few races, speak with the owner/drivers, look at different brands, chassis, constructors, (whatever you want to call them) and try to get a feeling of what you like, and what the owner/drivers have to say.

I would not make the overall looks of the car a deciding factor. Yes, some F1000's look like F1 racecars, and are really cool. My suggestion, don't let the looks override the drivability and the quality of the race car.

Then, I would search right here on Apexspeed under the F1000 Classifieds for a used secondary market car. If you have the deep pockets to buy new and have a car constructed, a-ok. If your like most people who enter this sport and have a limited or fixed budget, in my opinion the secondary market presents the best buying value and opportunity today vs. when I had my car produced.

You will find that most racers end up putting more money into these cars once they secure them originally. You can find loaded F1000 race cars at a nicely reduced price. Sellers of the secondary market can NEVER get what they have monetarily put into the car.

In today's secondary market for F1000 race cars, you should be able to find a very nice, high quality well maintained car for $30,000 to $35,000.

It's so easy to get excited about the class, and want to be a race car driver. But after entering races, paying fees to travel, tires, hotel rooms, and food, the sport quickly eats into ones pocket book, and racers truly understand the costs to race.

There are many quality cars available today here on ApexSpeed and this is the place where most are listed.

So in summary, enjoy some up close race events, introduce yourself to the driver/owners, research the different builders and then look to buy in the secondary market, unless you have the very deep pockets to have a new F1000 custom built for you. You have an advantage living in Florida as there are many F1000 race cars and events near by.

ApexSpeed is your best source for F1000 information, and you will always find that this community is ALWAYS willing to answer questions and help each other out.

Good luck in your search and research. make sure you complete your due diligence before making any kind of leap in this class. Yes it is a cool class, very cool, and the initial learning curve is steep. Try to avoid making costly monetary mistakes from the beginning.

The best to you.

[bdm]

[FONT=Verdana]Thanks Richard,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Excellent advice. I did go to the Turkey Trot at Sebring and plan on going to the Nationals at Sebring January. I did both old and new SRF several years back and know what you mean. I actually still have one SRF that I was planning on doing a frame up on and got swamped at work.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Thanks again for your time Richard and everyone. I appreciate it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Doug[/FONT]
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[glenn cooper]

Come and see me at Sebring. I'll be in the (BR)Green RFR F1000, running #47 at that event.

Coop

[Ivinsea]

Many people tend to buy whichever chassis is winning the most, but there is a lot more to a correct decision than that, starting with the fact that the driver is such an important factor.

Back in 1998 my brother and I decided to get into shifter karts. I read all the results and Birel, CRG, TonyKart etc were winning most of the races. We ended up buying Topkarts which may not have been ultimately the fastest but the local dealer, Keith Raffa of Full Tilt Racing, came to every race with a 40' trailer loaded with every spare imaginable. We paddocked under Keith's tent and as complete noobies, we relied on his experience and spares to get started.

Similarly in 2010, we jumped into FB and again as novices, needed all kinds of support, and Stohr was there for us. Wayne answers the phone EVERY time we call unless he is at a big race, in which case I call his cell if I have to.

Stohr has made 150 or so cars over the last 10 years and are commited to FB are are not going anywhere.

Another valid point is to make friends with a knowledgeable local FB competitor and buy the same chassis he has. If you are a good guy, people are always glad to help.

I remember at the NJMP pro race, Tim Pierce had a problem with his RFR and Glenn Cooper was able to diagnose the issue easily.

[Zcurves]

It wasn't a difficult diagnosis. I tore the RF corner off. I agree with you though.

[glenn cooper]

I walked over to Tim's crashed car, pointed at it and said "That's F****d"...

[starkejt]

Fecund?

[Purple Frog]

Fouled?
fucoid?

[Evl]

fabled? faffed? fagged? failed? fained? fanged? fanned? farmed? farted? fasted? fatted? fawned? feared? feazed? fecund? felled? felted? fenced? fended? fervid? fessed? feuded? fibbed? figged? filled? filmed? finked? finned? firmed? fished? fitted? fizzed? flaked? flamed? flared? flawed? flayed? flexed? florid? flowed? fluked? fluted? fluxed? foaled? foamed? fobbed? foetid? fogged? foiled? folded? fonded? fooled? footed? fopped? forbad? forbid? forced? forded? forged? forked? formed? fouled? fowled? framed? frayed? friend? frigid? fucoid? fudged? fueled? fulled? funded? funked? furled? furred? fussed? futzed? fuzzed?

[starkejt]

I'm so proud of you guys for being able to search google for a crossword solver.

[R. Pare]

You forgot flacid........

[Evl]

I'm so proud of you guys for being able to search google for a crossword solver.

Google's for the young kids. 'Old timers' use:

% grep -i ^f....d\$ /usr/share/dict/american-english-large | perl -ne 'chomp; print "$_? "'

[DonArm]

There is medication to help you with that Richard.

[starkejt]

Two c's in "flaccid."

[Purple Frog]

Ever since Coop wrote for Formula Car Magazine, i always knew he had a wonderful command of the English language.

[glenn cooper]

It's a Battlestar Galactica thing, therefore only Josh would know...

[Purple Frog]

Sorry Charlie... Frakked has one too many letters to qualify.
Take a seat.