Braided brake lines

[lucky13]

My brake lines are looking a bit corroded in places and I'm thinking about replacing them before I NEED to replace them. I have braided lines on the front but standard brake lines that run to the back and then separate off into a pair of braided lines to the wheels. I think I'd prefer to just run all braided lines to avoid all the bending and - more importantly - to avoid having the corrosion issue again. I'm wondering if others have continuous braided lines on their FV or if there are any drawbacks that I'm not considering. Thanks.

[Nardi]

Not an FV but I have done it on many F2000 cars. Just buy the parts and make your own, it is very simple, but you will probably prick your fingers a few times on the braided line!

[smsazzy]

I run braided all around my Vortech.

[Jnovak]

All braided line is just fine. We use swaged fittings made to length and they are WAY less expensive than reusable fittings.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[problemchild]

My brake lines are looking a bit corroded in places and I'm thinking about replacing them before I NEED to replace them. I have braided lines on the front but standard brake lines that run to the back and then separate off into a pair of braided lines to the wheels. I think I'd prefer to just run all braided lines to avoid all the bending and - more importantly - to avoid having the corrosion issue again. I'm wondering if others have continuous braided lines on their FV or if there are any drawbacks that I'm not considering. Thanks.

Cost. You can buy cheap steel line at an auto parts store that will last for another 20 yrs. You can buy premium steel line at an auto parts store for a few dollars more than will last for another 50 yrs. Depending on how you buy your braided line, it would likely be 5-10X more. In theory, the braided line will soften your pedal, but I have never noticed it anytime I just used braided line.

[Jnovak]

Cost. You can buy cheap steel line at an auto parts store that will last for another 20 yrs. You can buy premium steel line at an auto parts store for a few dollars more than will last for another 50 yrs. Depending on how you buy your braided line, it would likely be 5-10X more. In theory, the braided line will soften your pedal, but I have never noticed it anytime I just used braided line.

Greg, when you run a race shop a huge part of your cost is labor. The cost of a long braided line with swaged fittings is less than $35 my cost. Now buy all the tubing, fittings, etc required to do a solid steel brake line + about 2 hours of labor to bend, fit, flare etc all the seperate tubes and you will see that the $35 7 ft long line with swaged fittings is a great deal. Now if you are doing all the labor yourself for your own car I can understand that the cost savings might be worth the extra work.

Just my opinion ... Jay Novak

[problemchild]

Greg, when you run a race shop a huge part of your cost is labor. The cost of a long braided line with swaged fittings is less than $35 my cost. Now buy all the tubing, fittings, etc required to do a solid steel brake line + about 2 hours of labor to bend, fit, flare etc all the seperate tubes and you will see that the $35 7 ft long line with swaged fittings is a great deal. Now if you are doing all the labor yourself for your own car I can understand that the cost savings might be worth the extra work.

Just my opinion ... Jay Novak

I totally agree. Matt is a regional FV racer. I doubt that his labor is a cost factor.

I buy swaged lines from a local oval race shop wherever possible. They come in various lengthes at unbelievable cost. If I never touch a flaring tool again it would not bother me a bit.

[romoman]

Check out Behrent's for premade lines. The webpage is http://www.behrents.com/c/Brakes-bra...3straight.html

[lucky13]

Greg and Jay - My labor cost has stayed the same for the last thirty or thirty-five years or so and I don't see it changing any time soon. It is pretty much the same as everyone else: $0.00/hr

I ran new steel brake lines for my son's street car a couple of months ago. I'm in the same boat, Jay. If I don't see a flaring tool again, I'll be happy.

I'll be ordering some #3 braided lines and a bunch of connectors and running braided lines front to back.

Thanks for the responses.

[kea]

I like the assembled braided brake/clutch line personally.
They allow me to service them by re-using the ends if I find the hose is damaged some how (rocks, crash, car jack in the wrong place, etc).
If you have any question about using this style, contact me.
We have a large supply of Earl's fittings and some BSP style ends for those cars that use them.
If you know the exact length and style ends you want, I can assemble them here (no charge) before shipment.

[Clyde]

Do any of you know what RTFB means? Read The Friendly Book! I read in Earls & Aeroquip that they do NOT want more then 3 feet of hose in the brake system. Plus, do you realize how much strength is lost with just a single strand of braid broken? If you get a chance to check out the lower A-arm on an IndyCar or F-1 racecar you will find they route the solid brake line through them and then have two short flex-lines at each end. Do not be lazy with your brakes! RTFB.

[Tiago Santos]

If only FVs copied F1 on everything they did..

[lucky13]

I like the assembled braided brake/clutch line personally.
They allow me to service them by re-using the ends if I find the hose is damaged some how (rocks, crash, car jack in the wrong place, etc).
If you have any question about using this style, contact me.
We have a large supply of Earl's fittings and some BSP style ends for those cars that use them.
If you know the exact length and style ends you want, I can assemble them here (no charge) before shipment.

Support the people who support the sport. I'll get some measurements and details on the ends that I need and give you a call, Keith. Thanks.

[Jnovak]

I like the assembled braided brake/clutch line personally.
They allow me to service them by re-using the ends if I find the hose is damaged some how (rocks, crash, car jack in the wrong place, etc).
If you have any question about using this style, contact me.
We have a large supply of Earl's fittings and some BSP style ends for those cars that use them.
If you know the exact length and style ends you want, I can assemble them here (no charge) before shipment.

You cannot go wrong with this deal from Keith. Heck, I will be calling him too.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[Fred Michael]

Do any of you know what RTFB means? Read The Friendly Book! I read in Earls & Aeroquip that they do NOT want more then 3 feet of hose in the brake system. Plus, do you realize how much strength is lost with just a single strand of braid broken? If you get a chance to check out the lower A-arm on an IndyCar or F-1 racecar you will find they route the solid brake line through them and then have two short flex-lines at each end. Do not be lazy with your brakes! RTFB.

Actually they route braided lines inside the a-arm and it is done for aero purposes. Royal pain in the ass when you have to replace just a line and not the whole a-arm assembly.

[Brian]

I wouldn't mind the cites for that three foot rule quote. I've read both catalogs, and never found that mentioned - I don't think it's true, to be honest. I have heard that some top tier teams use -2 brake lines. Jay, I would like to know some more about swaging teflon lined brake lines, what tools you need.

Brian

[Matt King]

Personally I would rather run steel tube through the frame and keep the braided lines to the wheels cylinders relatively short and standard lengths (2-3 ft max) so that they are easily field replaceable if you have a problem at the track. If you are running super-long custom made lines and have a problem with one, that can easily end your weekend, compared to the relative ease of finding a standard 24-inch hose with straight ends.

I have a really good Rigid tube flaring tool, which is super easy to use and makes perfect flares every time, so that has been a big part of why I adopted this attitude. If you have a crappy flaring tool that is a crapshoot, I can understand why people would tend to avoid making flares.

[Brands]

For what its worth I've convinced myself that hard lines give a better pedal.

[butch deer]

For the last 20 years or so I have always used hard lines for the long runs front to rear. You can buy a 25' roll of steel hard line and do both clutch & brake lines with plenty left over. If you use steel tube nuts and sleeves you only need to do a simple single flair to connect to a -3 male adaptor readily available in Tees,Bulkhead adaptors, banjo's ,etc. Easy to do with simple and cheap flair tool.
Butch

[starkejt]

I would like to know some more about swaging teflon lined brake lines, what tools you need.

Brian

I use swaged/crimped Teflon hoses. AFAIK the only way to do it is with a hydraulic crimp machine. I have one from Brown & Miller. You can also order custom hoses with crimped fittings from them and many other places.

[smsazzy]

I wouldn't mind the cites for that three foot rule quote. I've read both catalogs, and never found that mentioned - I don't think it's true, to be honest. I have heard that some top tier teams use -2 brake lines. Jay, I would like to know some more about swaging teflon lined brake lines, what tools you need.

Brian

I run -2 on my Vortech for all brake lines. Clutch is -3.

[kea]

Brian,
Remember that with crimped-on (swaged)hose end assembly, if you have a damaged hose, you need to replace the whole thing. As I recall, the materials as less expensive, but I don't think they have as great an assortment of ends available.
On the assembled type, with a length of new hose and a few of the crush olives it uses, you can make a fix yourself while at the track.

[starkejt]

As I recall, the materials as less expensive, but I don't think they have as great an assortment of ends available.

Not entirely true. B&M has a huge variety of fittings, many of which I have never seen elsewhere, but they tend to be very expensive as compared to the assembled type. The assembled stuff is the way to go unless you want the lightest, most compact fittings (or trick specialty fittings like banjos with integrated internal hex drive bolts) and are willing to carry spare complete hoses. They do cost more, but then the crimp stuff goes together quickly and with fewer holes in your fingers.

[smsazzy]

Keep in mind that if you use all stainless, and heat shrink the lines to protect them, barring a serious accident, you will likely never replace them again. You are not talking about an ongoing cost here. I simply carry about 10 feet of hose and a couple extra ends, just in case. However, I don't expect to need to replace them unless something REALLY bad happens. The pressures we run are so much lower than a power assisted system to begin with that failure is unlikely - unless you buy cheap crap to begin with.

[Tiago Santos]

I think in a Vee, a crash serious enough to rip off my brake lines will very likely end my weekend anyway.. But in a Ford, those corners come off pretty easy, eh? I think most teams that run the pro series would carry spares to replace the whole corner in a short amount of time. I'm sure in that case, having easily replaceable brake lines would be a great time saver.

[sracing]

We carry most every fitting made (Earls, Goodridge etc.) This includes pre-made SS lines of most any length you need (in sizes -2 -3 -4). We custom make your lines at no additional charge. By far at our level of racing, flex lines with a few spare feet, and a couple fittings and a coupling, will do any track repairs and is all you will ever need.