Inside of front axle beam questions

[Rolling Stone]

I have not removed my bent to hell front beam yet,what goes inside the top beam and what goes inside the bottom beam?having never done a beam before all I know is metal springs/bars are involvedis it a difficult job?can one get the parts from CIP1 for our cars?

[Tiago Santos]

It's not a difficult job Although I've never had to take apart a bent beam, so that may complicate things.. Probably not much.

One tube will have a spring pack, the other will have an anti-roll bar. Usually the anti-roll bar is on top, the spring on the bottom, but some cars have them switched around, not a big deal, just convenience for steering box, spring adjuster, master cylinder placement in different chassis'!

Take the wheels and drums off, remove the spindle.. Then it'll be obvious what needs to come off next! If I can do it, you can do it

Keep us posted on how it goes..

edit: Cip1 does sell some of the parts we need, but not all of it. I don't think they have stock spring packs or turkey legs anymore, and they definitely don't have anti-roll bars for our cars. Or the beam itself.. Might be easier/cheaper to find a complete beam somewhere..?

[AVR_Shane]

Frank,

Your beam would have a leaf pack on the bottom and an anti-roll bar on the top. That being said, both your leaf pack and anti-roll bar will be beyond bent and not salvageable. Depending on where the bend is, it might be difficult to get the turkey legs out. We have had beams where we had to toss them because we simply couldn't get them out. If they are that hard to get out, they are likely cracked/broken and shouldn't be used anyway....

All of the still can be purchased from Bill Vallis. I'm pretty sure he has leaf packs at his shop, and he can make the anti-roll bars if he doesn't have any right now...very reasonably priced as well.

[Steve Davis]

I have never had a situation where I could not get the turkey legs out .. however I HAVE had a situation where I had to CUT the beam new the worst area of the bend to be able to remove the internal parts. And it was NOT easy to get the arms out - but possible.. amazingly NEITHER one was bent at all - it depends on what the point of contact was - the tire or the beam itself.

Mine was bent pretty badly (30+ degrees), but I was AMAZED that the spring pack regained its shape when I cut the beam. It was a bit difficult to get it apart because the BENT sway bar and 'heavily loaded' spring pack were fighting each other. I eventually managed it .. and was then even able to straighten my sway bar and return it to service.

It took some time, but I got it done and the sway bar served me well for several years until I sold the car .. pretty sure it's STILL serving the new owner :-).

BTW - the quickest way to check the turkey legs is to hold them to the light reversed against each other on the bearing surfaces. The slight gap between them makes it quite easy to determine if at least one of the them is bad. Use a known good one for comparison to be sure which one .. or both.

By all means, make EVERY effort to remove those parts .. including the needle bearings in the beam if it is beyond being straightened. PARTS are getting more and more scarce. We shouldn't be tossing things that could POSSIBLY be used.

Also ALWAYS check your spindles after such an accident. Very small cracks can grow all too rapidly!

Steve, FV80

[Daryl DeArman]

If it were me I'd replace the beam, spindle to spindle. Yes, some parts are getting harder to find--so sell the damaged beam to somebody capable of properly inspecting all the components and willing to chance it to offset some of the replacement cost. You will also possibly keep more parts in circulation.

Given the consequences of a part failing; possible crash damage, your safety, time to fix it twice, and the DNF. Too much downside for not enough upside.

YMMV

[Rolling Stone]

The beam is a throw away,to heavily bent at both ends,I am getting a used beam and buying spring pack/torsion bar to go inside it,everything else seems OK but will obviously double check as I go along,thanx all kindly

[blackhole]

Frank give me a call I will explain it to you. I have some Parts for you.

Juergen

[Rolling Stone]

Ok Herr Kapelke, danke das ist Wunderbar mein fruende, du bist ein sherne Ummmm?not sure of spelling etc,it was 1966 when I was in Germany All I can say is



"DAS AUTO"

[Rolling Stone]

Got a beam from Andrew McMurray,springs from the Kapelkes and a torsion bar from Bill Vallis...just need gloves now as the garage is freezing cold...How I hate Winter

[blackhole]

In Canada we have HEATERS. I do not know what you use in England.

[Rolling Stone]

In Canada we have HEATERS. I do not know what you use in England.

When you and your Dad are together there is plenty of hot air in your garageAlso Im used to BOSCH heaters they keep breaking downgoing to order a LUCAS heater

[karmaboy]

Frank...
When you asked me about leaving out a leaf from the spring pack...I didn't clue in until later.
Adding and removing leaves is how you control the spring rate.

[Rolling Stone]

Frank...
When you asked me about leaving out a leaf from the spring pack...I didn't clue in until later.
Adding and removing leaves is how you control the spring rate.

Kevin I was advised by Juergen Kapelke & Bill Vallis to put them all in,so I did in the end,bitch of a job tho but I was lucky as they all went in at the 3rd attempt!!

[hojof1]

Frank are you sure there were 5 full ones in there from the original setup?

[Rolling Stone]

Andrew,Ill have to ask Kapelkes it looked like a full set but all covered in grease so not sure how many.It looked like 2 thin then 3 wide ,then 2 thin

[Rolling Stone]

I had to cut the adjuster off,Master cylinder welded bracket at front was in the way of it.

[hojof1]

ah that's too bad about the adjuster.

different cars sometime use different spring packs up front because of the way they are designed as a total package.

if you put in a different orientation of spring leaves and change from your original spring rate, that will change a lot of the handling characteristics etc. which could lead to something not so good.

or better...potentially....

for example some cars run 3 full ones and then just little bits on the ends to fill up the gap so the turkey legs fit on securely. some cars run twisted leaves to change front ride height with no adjuster. there's a bunch of ways to do things in that tube.

feel free to make jokes at the last line there.

[problemchild]

With the Mysterian, it is tough to use a single RH adjuster. I have two adjusters (on the same tube) on the M2s from my shop. I've been experimenting with different spacings and springpack configurations and the setup in the silver 7 seems about right. It will be atleast a week before I'm back in town to measure it up, but I can share that info if you want Frank. There is no reason you cannot cut and reweld the adjusters in different locations, multiple times. With all the labor involved in a current FV beam, I tend to keep repairing good beams that get bent, rather than starting from scratch.

[Rolling Stone]

With the Mysterian, it is tough to use a single RH adjuster. I have two adjusters (on the same tube) on the M2s from my shop. I've been experimenting with different spacings and springpack configurations and the setup in the silver 7 seems about right. It will be atleast a week before I'm back in town to measure it up, but I can share that info if you want Frank. There is no reason you cannot cut and reweld the adjusters in different locations, multiple times. With all the labor involved in a current FV beam, I tend to keep repairing good beams that get bent, rather than starting from scratch.

Im not that good Greg,I have put the front all back together now seems OK,but I will get Jeurgen Kapelke to check things out at some point,just waiting for a new Master cylinder as one got broken in crash,plus someone is making me 2 tie-rods,even my tie-rod ends were bent so replaced them too.

[Rolling Stone]

ah that's too bad about the adjuster.

different cars sometime use different spring packs up front because of the way they are designed as a total package.

if you put in a different orientation of spring leaves and change from your original spring rate, that will change a lot of the handling characteristics etc. which could lead to something not so good.

or better...potentially....

for example some cars run 3 full ones and then just little bits on the ends to fill up the gap so the turkey legs fit on securely. some cars run twisted leaves to change front ride height with no adjuster. there's a bunch of ways to do things in that tube.

feel free to make jokes at the last line there.

How would one twist the leaves?

[hojof1]

by heating them up, like a blacksmith. yup you can be a blacksmith now.

I dont think its the best idea to follow.

[Steve Davis]

How would one twist the leaves?

Put the turkey legs on backwards (leg sticking toward the front). Then put a large diameter, quite long, quite stout tube on it and pull the leg (in the correct direction) past the spring point and it will stay permanently twisted in the new orientation. It is somewhat difficult .. maybe a LOT difficult, but can be done.

This is only for ride height adjustment and doesn't significantly affect the spring RATE. The biggest problem is trying to get both sides bent to the same angle.

Steve, FV80

[Dennis Richarson]

If you go with the big pipe/twist the spring pack idea, make very sure you have a good grip on the pipe. Loosing your grip will launch the pipe quite a long distance.

Dennis

[Tiago Santos]

Sounds like you're holding off on telling us a story, Dennis!

[Bob Posner]

When bending(twisting) the spring,measure the distance from the end of the turkey leg to the top of the beam tower to ascertain spring tension(ride height) will be equal on each side. As Steve says,it's not easy. Work up to the correct bend by reinstalling everything,dropping the car to the ground,and measuring ride height with weight in the car.It can easily take half a day. Once it's correct,write on the beam in paint pen the final measurement from turkey leg to beam tower top. Then you'll know where to start with the next beam after you ruin this one... All this pertains only to an old original beam that has no adjuster.

[Bruce]

Secure the frame, since bending the spring will lift the frame.