SCCA Phasing out Nationals

[farrout]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Regional races are still races, the people that run them still care as much about competing and racing and whatever else. Why should it be ok to have someone putzing around the track trying to figure out where the shifter is on a regional? The distinction between the two tiers should be (and I believe it is) about the goals and budgets, not the skills. If there aren't, there should be other opportunities for learning how to drive. That's what the schools, time trials, HPDEs are, or should be for.

As slow as I've been in my first few seasons with learning how to drive, figuring out how to setup my car, with leaking intake manifolds and other stupid mistakes, I've never been 10% off the pace anywhere. I think you have to try reeeeally hard to be that far off at most tracks, or like you said, be way in over your head. In which case, you shouldn't be figuring out in Regionals, you should be taking a step back and maybe trying something else for a while.

I have to disagree with you on a number of counts.

Many of the Regional guys drive older cars that are just not competitive with the newer "National" cars. See an AMAC at the Runoffs anymore? Do they deserve a place to race? I think so. Not everyone can afford the $50K for a Nationally competitive car. But they love the sport and are frequently the guys who also volunteer as F&C, GRID, T&S, Tech as well.

I am also our Region treasurer, chair a couple of TT events each year, and have been a road race treasurer as well. Sad to say, we absolutely need all the drivers we can get in order to get above the profit/loss line in a Road Race. Visit the loss side too many events and the races will cease to exist. Maybe an exodus of the >110% drivers looks good to you but I see it as a killer to our ability to put on races.

In my usual run group - DSR/CSR/FA/FB/FM/FE, etc, I can be guranteed that I can be 10-12 seconds off of the FA or Stohr. I will be in the bottom half of the grid. I will get passed by a few of the leaders late in the race. The speed differential in my group is huge. Even watching mirrors does not always work well but the blue flags are essential.

I teach at our double school each year. The number of drivers that show up never having been in a race car or never having driven on a track have become the norm not the exception. We spend most of the weekend teaching them how to drive rather than working on the finer points of racing. Then they can get their Regional license after surviving 2 races and a National license shortly after that. Simply put, there is no measurable skill/lap time criteria to meet. The criteria is safety - Would the instructor feel safe beside the student on track?

Level 3 Track Trials are an excellent way to gain car control skills in a race car. In SEDIV, we have had a very successful TT (or SOLO I) program for 30 years with ~5 track events a year plus the Hill Climbs. Many current SEDIV Racers came up thru this program. As we run our events, it is much like a Friday TestNTune. 15-20 minute sessions but passing is controlled with a point by. Look across the rest of SCCA and you will not find too many Level 3 Track Trial events. Level I PDX and Level 2 Club Trial teach car control but not necessarily in a race car.

[problemchild]

I do not understand all the ramifications of change, but the current system is so broken, that changes must be made. Who better to manage the transition than Butch?
Get r done!

[924RACR]

I do not understand all the ramifications of change, but the current system is so broken, that changes must be made. Who better to manage the transition than Butch?
Get r done!

Hear hear! Butch for Presidente for Life!!

PS: I think you misspelled "git"...

[Will Velkoff]

Can't keep doing the same thing year after year, especially when it ain't working. I'm looking forward to this change and am positive about the outcome. Maybe will bring back some "divisional" competition and some meaning to Regional racing.

[Wren]

Who better to manage the transition than Butch?

No one, but that still doesn't make it a good idea.

I'm pretty tired of all of the "The SCCA is evil and out to screw us" talk. It amazes me that people constantly think that the national office is always trying to pull one over on the membership.

I reviewed the thread and I'm pretty sure no one said anything like that. Maybe you could link to it?

I think they are clueless. I am kind of tired of listening to old timers talk about how it used to be with huge fields of FF and a qualify or go home situation. Those days are gone and they are not coming back.

Now they have come up with something modeled after what seems to work in the Solo world in an attempt to change club racing for the better

This is not modeled after the Solo world. This is a clumsy attempt at a knock-off of what Rand is doing.

As long as they run those local events with some logic and knowledge of how to put on a safe (no overly combined race groups with 8 classes per group) and fun event, I don't give a crap what it's called.

That is exactly what I am worried about. Most events only have one OW group for the test day and a lot of regionals are one Formula/sports racer group.

The target is six double-race Majors weekends per conference, but there may be some singles on the calendar as well. You'll count your best 67% of the races (8 if there are 12 races, 7 if 10, etc.) in the conference toward the Conference Class Championship, so it's not like you MUST run all six weekends to contend.

So on the east coast, we get 6 major weekends between Miami and Maine? I assume this is for 2014 also?

Out of the small bore formula and wings and things, exactly how many people do you expect to compete in this series? I would be surprised if there were more than 10. Off of the top of my head, I can think of Jacek. Who else?

The people who are that serious are already running with Rand and they aren't coming back.

Here is my guess on what happens. People are going to continue to run in their division and will do the major that happens to fall in their area, if they are in one of the chosen classes. Otherwise they will just run the regionals in their areas.

What is ruining most people's fun is the mixed class racing. This plan sets the stage to make that mixed class racing worse at all but 6 events on the east coast. The disparity in lap time, talent, attitude and equipment will grow and that is not going to improve anyone's racing.

I know it is Atlanta Region policy to require chief steward approval for anyone running on a novice permit at a rational or the ARRC. I certainly understand why that is. My guess for how a lot of these new regionals are going to end up is something like the ARRC. That is run by the best region in the club and I still heard a well known/respected xSR driver last year planning to put it in the trailer because as he put it, "I have to be at work on Monday." He did end up staying, but the frustration and concern is very real.

[starkejt]

My guess is that the motivation behind the expanded Majors program is purely practical. Something like, "We had all these pens and beer koozies made with 'SCCA Majors' printed on them. How else are we going to get rid of them?"

Hanlon's Razor is probably appropriate here.

[Wren]

I attributed it to cluelessness, which is pretty much the same thing.

I know that we have a BOD member with some angst towards Rand's series, but I don't think that is driving this decision.

[Matt King]

Wren, do you really think the current system is better? I don't. It's probably true that many who have defected to various pro series won't come back, but it's not like the current situation is a raging success. National racers still complain about how events are run and many regions struggle to make a financial success of the two-tiered structure. I am somewhat skeptical of the ability of the national office to fix it, but at least they are trying new things. The only way to find out if the new ideas will work is to actually implement them.

[Wren]

Wren, do you really think the current system is better?

Yes. It at least has a place for me.

[Matt King]

Yes. It at least has a place for me.

You'll still have a place at regionals. If your argument is that regionals may now have more cars and competition within classes, I don't see how that is a reasonable complaint. That is really how it should have been all along. It's only because of the failure of the two-tiered system that the current perception of have and have-not status between the two levels has developed. There really should be only one level of SCCA club racing and everyone who wants to race in an SCCA class has a place there. If there is a demand for more premium events like these Majors, then the market will decide if that is successful. Artificially separating the limited number of competitors into separate but largely redundant events hasn't made sense for a long time.

[BWC54]

Artificially separating the limited number of competitors into separate but largely redundant events hasn't made sense for a long time.

I thought that's why there are, or were Rationals.

[Keith Carter]

Yes, there are Rationals, but they are few and far between. Now they will all be Rationals, but they are changing the name.

[Matt King]

I thought that's why there are, or were Rationals.

Even calling them Rationals still implied there was a reason to have two tiers of club racing.

[BWC54]

Even calling them Rationals still implied there was a reason to have two tiers of club racing.

But with Regionals and Majors there are still 2 tiers so if there isn't a reason to have 2 tiers the new program doesn't change that. At least Rationals gave regions the opportunity to reduce the number of redundant events.

[Matt King]

But with Regionals and Majors there are still 2 tiers so if there isn't a reason to have 2 tiers the new program doesn't change that. At least Rationals gave regions the opportunity to reduce the number of redundant events.

I don't think it is really two distinct tiers. The Majors are just showcase type events, like the pro series. The proof of that will be if they revert to one level of license for club racing and eliminate the regional/national distinction.

[reidhazelton]

You'll still have a place at regionals. If your argument is that regionals may now have more cars and competition within classes, I don't see how that is a reasonable complaint. That is really how it should have been all along. It's only because of the failure of the two-tiered system that the current perception of have and have-not status between the two levels has developed. There really should be only one level of SCCA club racing and everyone who wants to race in an SCCA class has a place there. If there is a demand for more premium events like these Majors, then the market will decide if that is successful. Artificially separating the limited number of competitors into separate but largely redundant events hasn't made sense for a long time.

For me, if things stay the same as they have for the past few years in my racing exploits, I see regionals being where I go to play. I think Wren is getting at the idea of some big alphabet soup classes with HUGE speed differentials. If you think it is bad at Nationals, wait until you have some grandpa in a CFF fresh out of the barn. Currently, FF run groups are with one or two other classes (FB and FE lately). Now, go take an FF national guy to a regional and you will be with FF,CFF,FV,F500,FST. National FF with a regional FV back marker? Now, if you are FB or FE...look at the regional run group....CSR,FE,DSR,S2,FA,FC,FS,FM,FB!!!! I already feel for the local regions in trying to create run groups when you have a national DSR guy and a vintage S2 in the same group. And no, I am not bashing regional guys. There are some very fast guys running there, but at the back there are slower guy at regionals than nationals.

Like we have all said, something needed to change. I hope this works for the club, but for me (and people with limited budgets who run nationals) it will not be a better change. Honestly, I don't know how many are going to want to travel that far for a national. This is CLUB RACING, not a pseudo pro series. Different clientele, different budgets.

With any change, there are Pros and Cons. This is no different.

PROS:
Better competition (theoretically if guys travel)
Better Tracks
More consistency between events (do drivers care?)
Higher profile events (is it higher to a point that drivers care?)

CONS:
Longer tows
More time off work, away from family (These two being the main grip against the runoffs, and not they create more of that throughout the year)
Regional event run group issues


There are more, but that is a list of the main points. Cons #1 and #2 make it a problem for me - no matter how great Pro #1 and #2 are. If that was the case, I would go to the Rand series. I see this as trying to make SCCA something it is not. The Rand series works for that customer base, SCCA works for those who can't devote the amount of resources the Rand series or any other might demand.

[Tiago Santos]

Maybe an exodus of the >110% drivers looks good to you but I see it as a killer to our ability to put on races.

(...)

The criteria is safety - Would the instructor feel safe beside the student on track?

Level 3 Track Trials are an excellent way to gain car control skills in a race car. In SEDIV, we have had a very successful TT (or SOLO I) program for 30 years with ~5 track events a year plus the Hill Climbs. Many current SEDIV Racers came up thru this program. As we run our events, it is much like a Friday TestNTune. 15-20 minute sessions but passing is controlled with a point by. Look across the rest of SCCA and you will not find too many Level 3 Track Trial events. Level I PDX and Level 2 Club Trial teach car control but not necessarily in a race car.

Sorry, I think my post came out a bit wrong. I think that Regionals are still races, they should be as safe as any national race. I think there should be (and I believe there is!) a minimum standard of driving, as far as safety and awareness goes, before any driver goes on any track.

I drive a vee, I know what being lapped is like I know what driving while looking in your mirrors is like. I know what being 20 seconds a lap slower than the winged guys is like. And I know that if I was struggling with my own car, I'd never be able to spot the FB coming up 40mph faster than me.

I think your example about the TT program in SEDIV is a good one, and if people are worried about the safety of driving with the "lowly" regional drivers, they need to ask their divisions for more driver training opportunities, and they need to make sure the right drivers are attending them.

Anyway, we're getting pretty sidetracked here. All that my post was meant to say is, I don't believe there is any reason to be worried about "regional" guys being on track with the fancy pants national drivers. Again, the difference between them should be on budgets, goals, effort, whatever. But NOT SAFETY. If anyone isn't safe enough to be on track with anyone else, they need to get a not so gentle reminder to go and learn how to do it right. That's it, that's all

[Matt King]

Reid, I think you are discounting the possibility that this will also have a beneficial impact on regionals by only focusing on a few possible negative outcomes. I think the adage "racing improves the breed" applies here. There may need to be some tweaks and adjustments to classing and run groups along the way, but I am confident that having more entrants at regionals will ultimately be a good thing for all involved.

[Keith Carter]

Reid's post makes sense, but as long as they do something to prevent the alphabet soup run groups, the speed differential in the same class can be remedied by enforcing a xx% rule. Having only Regionals as the only local racing option should bump up participation at those events since you will only have one local event as opposed to two (a National and a Regional a couple of weeks apart) to dilute attendance so that should help prevent the alphabet soup groups in order to not have 3 or 4 cars running in a race group. Yes, this may push some older cars to vintage races, or other clubs like Midwestern Council here in this region for those who are way off the mark for being competitive, but this proposed change is the best attempt I've seen to fix all of the problems we've been seeing. We won't really see how it goes until we're in it...

[RussMcB]

In my little world (low budget, so-so driving ability, in an area with a pretty good selection of tracks and events - SEDiv), the two biggest problems to me are:

1. Each race weekend is so expensive.
2. The fields, especially within a class (such as FF) are small and I often spend races not near competitors. I've asked the fast guys to slow up a bit and make it more fun but they have ignored my suggestion every time. :-).

Hopefully, these changes can address #2, and maybe even #1 (more racers with which to help spread the costs?).

Crossing my fingers ...

PS. I can certainly understand highly skilled drivers with current, fast cars not being too excited about this.

[kc0stp]

Alright figured its time for me to weigh in from one of the lower attendance divisions (NO race made money this year, never broke 100 cars for a weekend) and as a regional only driver as my car isnt legal in a national race (the closed wheel version of a FV speed wise).

For all those complaining about running with the regional guys Im sorry but I see it the opposite way (yes I hold a national license). 95% of the close racing ive seen is with the regional guys, 75% of the metal to metal is with national guys (rough guess on %'s)... the people that pay the least attetion to their mirrors? The national guys. For those that care this division is where the Rationals were created due to low car counts (National guys wouldnt run regionals due to not getting national points, but 1/3-1/2 the cars are regional only classes) Frankly weve had drivers for a year or 2 now that have been saying we shouldnt run anything but Rationals as it made no sense to have just a National or just a Regional as the car counts couldnt justify either one (we also have a decent portion of drivers that run with NASA). As far as running with a diffrent series around here you have SCCA, NASA, Vintage, Chump and Lemons (with a rare Porsche club event) now from your guys perspective if you dont run with SCCA what other choice do you have? The closed wheel guys can (and do more often then not) run with NASA which is why if you go to one of their race 1/2 or more of the cars are current or former SCCA cars/drivers.

As far as the national guys having a higher budget with 1 or 2 exceptions I see just as many if not more high doller trailers/motorhomes/towrigs at a regional as a National (and Ive been at all but 1 weekend this seasson in division) the only time we see a large diffrence in high dollar setups is at the yearly Super Tour event and quite frankly part wise most the regional guys have a larger collection of spare parts. I will admit there are one or two national only guys that have big high dollar rigs but those same guys are the ones that are there to make money and advertise for their buisness vs having fun.

Oh and for the alphabet soup groups once you get a car count to justify more groups you wont have that problem, around here an average weekend has enough cars for an open wheel and a closed wheel group and thats it (did that last weekend and the biggest group was in the 20's with teens in the other) frankly without the car counts all creating more groups does is loose workers and drivers as they have nothing to watch and no one to race (some of my closest/best races have been with out of class cars). As has become a semi popular saying with the people running the races around here "Get the car counts and the workers will come" without one you cant have the other. Along similar lines we were one of the guinea pigs for the majors event, we almost had to cancel the invitational due to lack of workers (and car counts) and did cancel the showcase due to lack of entries (was later rescheduled) As someone else said the regional guys are also the guys that if they arent driving are working (and in some cases doing both) and at least around here its true for a national weekend probbly 1/4-1/3 of our workers are regional drivers. For our last race of the seasson (double regional last weekend) the race chair was the entirety of one of the regional classes (that happens to me mine, also #2 in participation that weekend and counting out national weekends #1 for seasson car counts)

[EYERACE]

Well though some are mentioning SeDiv or other Divisions - nothing addresses the fact that now there will be [until Nationals are gone] actually FOUR different race types - National / Major / Regional / and you're forgetting Divisionals..............Divisionals like SARRC or NARRC. While I have seen the big money in the paddock show up for Nationals, IMHO I see more competition and overall more member interest in things like a SARRC series weekend than a Regional or a National. Me thinks HQ is to be commended for trying something else to possibly create interest and a little exposure for the SCCA.............but will it hurt the Regions that have made good bucks off well known Nationals/Double Nationals because HQ siphons off the $????........Winter Nationals in Florida is one example.

For those concerned about those "slow FCs" in the way of those "fast FFs" let me give you an alternative.............what? we should be one of the 43 entries in virtually identical cars running restrictor plates in a virtual solid pack for 200 laps - winner determined by who did not get taken out in "the big one"............so get over it and enjoy the fact that a variety of walks of life can get their slightly tired old racecars out on a real track and go turn some laps which is really what constitutes the majority of Club Racers....all we really want to do is qualify, run and come back in with our cars in one piece......instead of corner working or watching a race on TV....so drive/race like a gentleman or lady and leave the red mist from the blood in your eyes back at the High School because a lot of us have grown up.

I love this quote from GrassRoots MotorSports years ago denegrating NaZcar: If I wanted to watch identically shaped brightly colored objects go around in a circle I'd flush Skittles down the toilet.

[tsiembieda]

I'm wondering how this will effect the people in my situation. I need to complete one more race on my novice permit in order to upgrade to a regional licenses.

If I understand this correctly Nationals are becoming either Majors or Regionals in 2013. My question is, will I be able to enter a Regional race in the spring to complete my novice permit?

Tony Siembieda
FV19
DMVR

[Steve Davis]

Tony,
I don't think you need to worry about finding a path to a regional license. SCCA is attempting to make those paths EASIER rather than harder these days.

Steve, FV80

[fezzic181]

Regional race weekends aren't currently going anywhere. So Entering them for license filling shouldn't be a problem.

[Mike Devins]

I'm wondering how this will effect the people in my situation. I need to complete one more race on my novice permit in order to upgrade to a regional licenses.

If I understand this correctly Nationals are becoming either Majors or Regionals in 2013. My question is, will I be able to enter a Regional race in the spring to complete my novice permit?

Tony Siembieda
FV19
DMVR

Races become majors or regionals in 2014 - in 2013 some of the nationals will become Majors

[Terry Hanushek]

Tony

My question is, will I be able to enter a Regional race in the spring to complete my novice permit?

Absolutely .. the number or regionals will be approximately the same in 2013 and may increase a bit in 2014.

There has been no change in the licensing process or license grades.

Good luck with your racing

Terry

[EYERACE]

OK so to enter a Major one must have a National License...........which means to me the following year all National License holders will be issued a Majors License or some other title which is not going to be called National anymore I would guess.

Question to the SCCA: what will be the requirements, after that initial transition year, to hold a Majors License?

[dick patullo]

There has been no discussion as part of the Majors program about changing license designations or requirements.
That may or may not be a discussion worth having but it is not part of the Majors initiative.

[farrout]

The recent SCCA email on points allocations for Majors and Nationals seems to force a driver into the Majors. It basically takes 2 Nationals to equal a Major. Maybe that evens out the extra expense of towing to a Major that is outside of your Division.

[Steve Davis]

Craig,
I THINK you are misunderstanding the points (or maybe *I* am). I was under the impression that there will be TWO tracks to the Runoffs.
1). MAJORS with their new points system
2). National/"Regional" (Rational) with the old points system.
Both sets of points would be maintained independent of each other. Which would mean that you get NO "National" points at a Majors event.

Am I off base here?

Steve, FV80

[BWC54]

The recent SCCA email on points allocations for Majors and Nationals seems to force a driver into the Majors.

I didn't get any email from SCCA on a new points system. Did it apply to 2013?

[924RACR]

That does now answer the question of how they intend to encourage more participation at Majors (vs. regular Nationals). Note also that there is a statement that Majors will all be Doubles, with singles only by special request... further boosting the points-haul potential for a single weekend.

For more detail on Majors, take a look at Appendix D of the latest Fastrack, there's a fairly good bit of info in there in more detail than is usually contained in the press releases... including future intent.

[Wren]

For those who want to read the information on the majors program, it is in the latest fastrack in the BOD section and appendix D.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...track-nov1.pdf

The National racing calendar has grown in number of events while participation has declined. Very little separates a National event from a Regional event today. Pro and semi-pro series, and competing organizations’ events, have also attracted our National drivers. To remain a motorsports leader, our National racing program needs to evolve.

It's pretty important to note that the reason we have so many nationals is because of the BOD's last bad idea, the rational. This is a clumsy attempt at copying the Rand series' success. My personal impression is that this is more old timers sitting around talking about how things used to be and back in the day when we had 1,100 fords at every event and you actually had to qualify your way in. It's one thing to have to listen to it in the paddock and quite another to have it drive SCCA policy. Those days are gone and not coming back.

I think the adage "racing improves the breed" applies here.

Throwing the regional guy with an open trailer, used tires and a tired engine out there is not going to equal racing. I think the adage "clubbing baby seals" is more appropriate.

Reid's post makes sense, but as long as they do something to prevent the alphabet soup run groups, the speed differential in the same class can be remedied by enforcing a xx% rule.

This plan will make the alphabet soup run groups worse, not better. There has to be room for 18 different regional miata classes plus an eduro. Maybe we will start to see qualifying session lengths fall into single digits also?

The last time I remember a region trying to have more flexibility in their scheduling was when the DC region tried to completely cut out the wings and things group or that race at Mid Ohio where FC/CFC were being excluded. I hope that they don't get that much flexibility.

Enforcing a xx% rule at a regional would just make things even less friendly. That rule will disenfranchise new people who used to have a place to run and get better.

It is important to note that there are only two open wheel classes in the top 10, FF and FV. Everyone else should be thrown into a group with talent ranging from national champions to novice permit holders on the track for the third time in their life.

Yes, this may push some older cars to vintage races, or other clubs like Midwestern Council here in this region for those who are way off the mark for being competitive, but this proposed change is the best attempt I've seen to fix all of the problems we've been seeing.

I agree that it will push people to other places, I just don't see how running off members is a good thing. Even if this plan is abandoned after one disastrous year, people are unlikely to return. Not everyone has that option either. It is 665 miles from my house to Blackhawk.

The problems are mixed class racing and ****ty treatment from the SCCA. This makes the mixed class racing problem worse. If Butch is really in charge of making things happen, then I expect the treatment to get better. If you have never been to an Atlanta region event, you really should. No one puts on a better race weekend than they do. Period. I know that Butch is only a part of that, but I believe he is a big part of it. Everyone from their registration people to their tech people are great. It always stands out to me just how nice their grid workers are. They have had a tech inspector going through the paddock to do people's annual tech at their races to make things easier for people.

For all those complaining about running with the regional guys

I don't really think anyone in this thread is complaining about running with the regional guys. I am a regional guy complaining about running with national guys. It is not fun for me or them.

I'm wondering how this will effect the people in my situation. I need to complete one more race on my novice permit in order to upgrade to a regional licenses.

As already pointed out, it will not affect you for 2013.

Craig,
I THINK you are misunderstanding the points (or maybe *I* am). I was under the impression that there will be TWO tracks to the Runoffs.
1). MAJORS with their new points system
2). National/"Regional" (Rational) with the old points system.
Both sets of points would be maintained independent of each other. Which would mean that you get NO "National" points at a Majors event.

Am I off base here?

Steve, FV80

If you look at the 2013 plan laid out in the latest fastrack then you will see that the Majors in 2013 will pay national points on a +10 basis (with some other minor changes). So, it is farily accurate to say that a major is worth two nationals.

I didn't get any email from SCCA on a new points system. Did it apply to 2013?

That does now answer the question of how they intend to encourage more participation at Majors (vs. regular Nationals). Note also that there is a statement that Majors will all be Doubles, with singles only by special request... further boosting the points-haul potential for a single weekend.

For more detail on Majors, take a look at Appendix D of the latest Fastrack, there's a fairly good bit of info in there in more detail than is usually contained in the press releases... including future intent.

[DSRDAVE]

I suspect the points required to qualify will be the same whether you get them from running regionals or majors. Points SHOULD be easier to come by for a national level driver running in a regional. Plus there will be more races available closer to home. You get extra points at the majors due to the increase in expense and competition. Just my view of how it will work ???????

[Steve Davis]

I guess I stand corrected. There are two "PATHS" to the Runoffs, but not two "METHODS". If I read Appendix D correctly. POINTS ARE POINTS (for the Runoffs) in 2013.

I think this last sentence ...

Details of the 2014 path are still being determined, although the Board has committed for paths to exist for Runoffs-eligible classes through both the U.S. Majors Tour and Regional Racing.

is what had me confused... and I still am

Steve, FV80

[KevinFirlein]

I cant wait for the regular national runner who decides he cant travel to the majors races and lives in my general idea and thinks he is gonna be welcome to use the regionals at Summit Point to qualify for the Runoffs. Before he he crosses the bridge thursday nite 70% of the paddock is roped off as reserved for the local regional groups so they can arrive whenever they choose. In my case when I run a regional no at SP there is exactly one area where my truck/trailer combo fits in a non roped off area. More comboa my size , which there are in nationals, that show up and someone is gonna be really unhappy. the roped off areas dont get pulled down till Saturday even if the entry for that particualr group is obviously too low to need all the spaces that it gets assigned in January. Basically Summit Point regionals is not a shinning example of how the new system will work.

[Wren]

Kevin,

We already know that region wants to exclude wings and things. Maybe now they will get to use their newfound "flexibility" in 2014 to not invite them at all or to just put all open wheel into one group to make sure that they know they are not welcome.
Speaking of flexibility... I have not heard a single example of what new flexibility regions will have under the new proposal that they don't have under the old rules. We already had restricted regionals and other methods to let regions do what they wanted. What will the new flexibility allow?

[KevinFirlein]

to be fair the DC Region is vastly improved over a few years ago. There is still poison is the region but not near as much as in the past. And its still not gonna be a friendly place for " national guys" to come race looking for Runoffs points even assuming they find a place to park.

[Northwind]

The combination of most national and regional event scheduled in a division almost doubles the local events as the new regional format weekends(minus the couple of majors). Perhaps these could be split as open wheel/sportsracer and tin-top, production, GT events. Have these events be double race weeknds and everyone gets the same number of races and it makes it more economical for travel. The run groups can be better split because of the fewer classes at a given weekend. Maybe I just need to wake up from this dream!